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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:56 am 


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cave hermit wrote:
The mage's tower seems like absurd bullshit though, like ok, you arbitrarily can only use magic, fine, but then the first enemies you run into have intrinsic reflect that can't be dispelled! And they constantly cast graviga, break, and periodically banish your whole party to the shadow realm, killing them instantly! I guess I'm going to have to break out FF4 strategies and cast reflect on my party to bounce spells off of them to penetrate the enemy reflect. Also apparently reraise is a hard requirement since the end boss casts ultima on death.

I always liked to use Umaro in there since he can still attack physically. it's one way to get around reflect. The magic tower is probably overall harder than Kefka's tower though. If you're just trying to finish the game it's probably not worth clearing.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:07 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
think it's worth trying out for a jaded sort like myself?

Yeah, absolutely man. I’m a fan of the series and enjoyed DQ8 but I think it is a bit overrated in the west. Dragon Quest XI is my favorite game in the series by a pretty long shot. No grinding necessary if you play smart (in fact there is an anti-grinding option that disables EXP gain from enemies lower level than you).

If you are on the fence at all, I would highly recommend the video Tim Rogers did on the game before leaving Kotaku—if he can’t convince you, nobody can!


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:05 am 


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Sumez wrote:
I've always used moogle charm for this particular part of the game. :)


Ditto, can't remember the last playthrough I've done where I've gone up the tower without it. The Cultists' Tower is arguably the hardest dungeon short of Kefka's tower if not harder.

cave hermit wrote:
Also apparently reraise is a hard requirement since the end boss casts ultima on death.


That's the fastest way to do it, but there's two other ways that avoid the Ultima on death.

Spoilers ahead:

Spoiler: show
Magic Master dies at 0 MP remaining, as a huge chunk of enemies do. Most enemies in the World of Ruin do, in fact. He cannot cast Ultima this way, so hitting him with Rasp repeatedly for an MP kill will avoid Ultima. For best results, Berserk him first so he does nothing but uses physical attacks and is at his easiest. This will take about half an hour though, because he's got a lot of MP to burn through.

If you're aware of how much HP Magic Master has and you're counting your damage, you can also summon Palidor right before he dies and finish him off while jumping in mid air.


As far as dealing with the dungeon itself goes (without resorting to Moogle Charm):

Spoiler: show
Vanguard's suggestion of using Umaro is a good idea to get around the magic issues. You do end up down a controllable party member, though.

Using Wall Rings on everyone is a mixed blessing; it doesn't stop all spells, and it prevents you from effectively healing yourself. A better option I think is to limit yourself to 2 Wall Ring users maximum, and focus instead on spells that ignore Reflect. Meteor, Ultima, Quake, Tornado, and Merton all apply. Meteor and Ultima are your best bet, but those are difficult to locate sidequest specific spells you may not find on your first playthrough. Still, Meteor and Ultima are honestly the easiest way to flatten things here without dealing with Reflect bouncing, so this is probably ideally the last dungeon in the game to tackle before doing Kefka's tower.

Summon magics also can't be reflected.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:31 am 


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I have not once felt challenged by DQ11. There's some areas I've battled every encounter in a dungeon, but now i think I'm gonna start running past most of them instead.. Just to see if it gets harder when i'm underlevelled.

The mage sisters seem pretty cool, shame the japanese obsession with children left Veronica looking like that.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:01 am 


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Necronopticous wrote:
No grinding necessary if you play smart

I'll need to watch the video later, but I doubt it'll serve as a stronger recommendation than this; 90 percent of the time when I say I'm not a fan of a particular game where you're forced to grind for levels/money, the response I get is "the whole point of the game is the grind!" and that title is basically dead to me. If DQ11 is well-paced enough (at least on "default" settings; IIRC the demo had a few "general" difficulty selections plus additional specific modifiers) that I don't need to regularly slam the brakes and run around in circles outside of town then that's about the best news I could hope to hear outside of "combat is deeper than 'use ice spell on fire monster'", though plenty of folks would probably say I'm "missing the point" on that latter item as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:42 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I have not once felt challenged by DQ11. There's some areas I've battled every encounter in a dungeon, but now i think I'm gonna start running past most of them instead.. Just to see if it gets harder when i'm underlevelled.

After my repeated attempts at informing people that no one should play DQ11 without enabling the "All monsters are super strong" option, it makes me sad that you didn't. :cry:
It's so crazy good everyone deserves to try it. Every boss fight is a tactical challenge.

But it's really the game's own fault for not advertising it well. And you can't enable it once you'd started a game. I've heard from several people who were hours into a game who restarted their game in this mode and were glad that they did.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:18 pm 


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I decided to just skip over the mage's tower, and take another stab at Kefka's tower last night. I actually made it to a save point, and after a bit of trial and error made it past the first two bosses, then the three warring triad statues. I then made two attempts at Kefka himself before calling it quits for the night, making it to Kefka's angel form on the second attempt. I think my failure left me frustrated and somewhat unsure of myself. I actually woke up at 4 in the morning, and lied in bed thinking, "will I ever beat Kefka?"

I beat Kefka when I tried this morning. So after about 30 hours I can file Final Fantasy 6 in the completed category, alongside FF4 and FF7.

I feel like this was a wildly ambitious game to pull off on the Super Nintendo, and it pretty much nailed it. My personal favorite FF is probably still 7, just because it's such a memorable game, and that isn't nostalgia speaking, I never grew up with the game, and only played it to completion last year or so.

As for my next JRPG, I'm actually considering going for Xenoblade Chronicles before I tackle Dragon Quest or Bravely Default 2, but I'll see what happens. I greatly enjoyed Xenoblade Chronicles 2, although I felt like it was slightly on the easy side.

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:55 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Blinge wrote:
I have not once felt challenged by DQ11. There's some areas I've battled every encounter in a dungeon, but now i think I'm gonna start running past most of them instead.. Just to see if it gets harder when i'm underlevelled.

After my repeated attempts at informing people that no one should play DQ11 without enabling the "All monsters are super strong" option, it makes me sad that you didn't. :cry:


Oh well I ignore most of your posts. :wink:

That's a joke I'm joking.

Oh sure but, I figured I'd like the game already and that i'll play it through more than once. Like, there's several challenges right? I'll probably turn them all on in a single playthrough.

Edit: Maybe not the protag death = game over. or party members sometimes not obeying your orders challenge.
Don't wanna be re-living Persona 3's most frustrating moments do I !!
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:12 am 


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Protag death = instant game over is one of the stupidest things in a modern RPG. Persona 2 didn't have it, and with good reason: there's a ton of instant kill attacks in the game! It's not actually completely terrible as long as the game doesn't have outright instakills; both Radia Senki (NES) and Arcana (SNES) have this, with Arcana taking it a step further and getting a game over if any of the three mains die, but neither of them have instant kill effects so it's just a matter of not being a chump and wandering around low on health...

I also hate the whole thing where you have a huge team of party members, but one slot is forcibly locked at all times to the protagonist. FF7, Legend of Dragoon, and so on seemed to start this thing. You always had way more party members than were allowed in battle, but god forbid you want to use a party that doesn't include the protagonist.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:43 am 


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@roo: If you were/are interested in trying out Yakuza 7 (which I really need to knuckle down and finish one of these days), note that it has both of those things.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:05 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Protag death = instant game over is one of the stupidest things in a modern RPG. Persona 2 didn't have it, and with good reason: there's a ton of instant kill attacks in the game! It's not actually completely terrible as long as the game doesn't have outright instakills; both Radia Senki (NES) and Arcana (SNES) have this, with Arcana taking it a step further and getting a game over if any of the three mains die, but neither of them have instant kill effects so it's just a matter of not being a chump and wandering around low on health...


Depends on your game design, really.
But in a game designed like Dragon Quest XI, where characters are dying all the time, and balancing your resources towards either reviving them or replacing them with other live party members. Robbing you of the ability to have the main character die and react to it only serves to limit your tactical choices. I also played with the one that makes you unable to flee, and honestly that just limits your choices in a similar way, and doesn't really make it any more challenging outside of maybe a few encounters really early on.
I also wouldn't want to enable the one that makes you unable to buy stuff in stores. That's such a big part of the game you're just removing as well.

And yeah, then there's all the one-hit-kill attacks you'll be seeing in the game. I think combining the protagonist death challenge with several of the others would make the game maybe not unbeatable, but certainly not very enjoyable.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:40 pm 


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A cursory look through the trophies page says there's no trophies for beating the game with draconian challenges on?
Is that right? I don't want to read it properly in case I get spoiled on something.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:55 pm 


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I quit Dragon Quest XI (vanilla) after the 'final' boss and the credits. Had my fill. Didn't die once, including in the final boss and I wasn't exactly a power player, so 'normal' difficulty is definitely a bit too easy, but it was a lovely relaxing game. I appreciate this sedate approach a lot more after finishing FF7 Remake, which was just exhausting. Why do they have to keep jumping all the time? Why does literally having have to explode in to sparks? Bah.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:32 pm 


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Is Pier Solar any good at all?
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:33 pm 


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I'm genuinely shocked that you played and enjoyed DQXI, MX7. It really didn't seem like your thing..
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:54 am 


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Hey Big Sumez, wouldn't the no shopping + tough monsters make the early game hellish?
Cause how do you get even the ability for basic heals? or removing status effects.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:49 pm 


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Yeah, I can't imagine no shopping makes the game more fun. It might be an interesting challenge mode, but I don't see giving up strategic options as a good thing, when you can instead beef up the monsters to make all the options you have relevant instead. :)

Playing on just Strong Monsters + No Grinding (and +No Fleeing, but that one isn't that fun), I often found that I would go to a store to get some trinkets to help with elemental defense and improved them with the funforge to give me a slight edge against certain bosses. It borders on grinding, but I kinda find that element of preparing for a battle satisfying.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:56 pm 


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Yeah that's cool, I have so many of these little gubbins in my inventory that i'm never going to touch by the end of the game, i don't even know what they do. A mode that forces you to make use of them sounds cool.

How does no-fleeing work vs the Dragon chase in the dungeons early on ?
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:10 pm 


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Finally sat down and finished Yakuza: Like a Dragon last night:

- Even on a base PS4 the game still looked pretty good to me, all things considered; running at 60 FPS on something more powerful must be a real sight to see. Aside from the usual attention to location details I think what impressed me the most was the sheer number of different character animations they crammed in here; every class has unique attacks and poses, certain techniques make enemies react in completely unique ways, even eating different types of food in battle changes the animation accordingly. I can only imagine how much work it was to create and implement them all. For the record I played with the Japanese audio track, as I'm just so used to Japanese voiceovers from previous games in the series.

- If, like me, your favorite part of any Yakuza title is the goofy humor, you are in for a treat here; the usual melodrama and violence is still around, to be sure, but the silliness is woven much more deeply into everything, not just the side stories (which themselves contain a couple of series highlights IMO). The crazier character classes are the linchpin for most of it; using office supplies as makeshift ninja tools and sending an enemy reeling with a high-velocity birthday cake to the face keep battles pretty entertaining throughout.

- That said, while the battle system is generally solid, the developers appear to have overlooked a fair amount of seemingly obvious QOL items; a patch added an in-battle indicator for enemy weaknesses, but none exists for resistances, nor any visual aid for area-of-effect attacks, and every once in awhile a bit of scenery or camera swing can mess up your plans. Outside of battle your inventory is much bigger than usual, thankfully, but unlike older Yakuza titles anything you decide to place in the storage box to clean things up can't be accessed for selling or crafting unless you take it back out again; certain elements aren't very well-explained either, so you'll likely have to either experiment or seek out an FAQ at some point.

- I picked the thing up and started playing it not long after it was released back in November; while the game is certainly big, the main reason for having taken so long to finish is that I took regular breaks from it, sometimes more than a week at a time. The changes to the battle system and such aren't as big a factor as you might expect, especially since fast travel has been improved considerably here, but the cutscenes can still go on for quite a long time, and some of the ongoing side quests are progressed so sparingly and require so much repetition that after awhile I just needed to step back for a bit. There's apparently a post-game "dungeon" or two, but after finishing the main story I think I'm good for now.

In the end my feelings towards the series' new direction are somewhat mixed; on the one hand I like the new possibilities that the "traditional" RPG format allows the series to move into (multi-character parties, weapons that aren't an afterthought), but on the other I miss certain things from yesteryear (the more active and impactful combat, less reliance on leveling). I wouldn't mind seeing more entries like this one, though at the same time I really don't want the developers to abandon the "hybrid" formula the series was built on; best-case scenario they have the ability and reason to do both going forward. Guess time will tell.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:25 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Is Pier Solar any good at all?


So this was a serious question. Plz halp.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:59 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Is Pier Solar any good at all?


So this was a serious question. Plz halp.


I'm not sure, but I keep getting on the fence when I'm about to buy it because most of what I read about the game sounds flawed. I also heard that Watermelon cheaped out on reprints and didn't use the proper voltage.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:31 pm 


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I haven't played Pier Solar but I don't think I've heard anyone say they loved it. Most people seem to think it's very mediocre, so that's why I stayed away from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:48 pm 


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Sounds like everyone else is in the same boat lol.

I was considering a Dreamcast copy.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:03 pm 


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It's on GoG for about a tenner, should you wish to instantly get the game when you part with your money. I didn't get to play it before my PC died though.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:02 am 


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I recently played through a pair of interesting Dark Souls-inspired doujin JRPGs called Black Souls and Black Souls 2. They're really good. Wide open, yet dense worlds to explore. Lots of secrets to uncover that lead to deeper secrets. They're extremely strong in terms of choices and consequences, easily on par with the top tier of WRPGs. You can kill basically any NPC you meet, but more importantly, the things you do and don't do with different characters and events consistently lead to wildly different outcomes. If some big danger is imminent and you go kill a few bosses to level up first, don't be surprised if everyone is dead when you get back. They've got a good level of challenge, but you shouldn't have to resort to grinding.

Spoiler: show
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These are both made in RPG Maker by the way


Black Souls and Black Souls 2 are H games. Both allow you to disable their hentai scenes at any time. If you suspect these games might contain something offensive that would prevent you from enjoying them, they probably do. Normally if I was playing something like this I would just keep it to myself, but these are simply too good to ignore. I cannot in good conscience deprive my fellow gamers of RPGs of this level of quality.

Spoiler: show
Image

To be clear, this screenshot is not from an H scene


The first game's setting is largely based on western fairy tales but with a heavy dose of Dark Souls flavor. The protagonist is an immortal undead with the power to consume souls, and his goal is to lift a curse on the kingdom that causes its citizens to transform into vicious demons. Most of the major enemies and allies you'll encounter will be familiar names like Joan of Arc, Snow White, and Red Riding Hood. There's quite a bit more to the game and its story than it initially lets on and you're free to pursue the truth as much or as little as you like. The combat is fairly standard JRPG stuff. You control a single protagonist but you can spend a turn summoning ally characters to help out in combat. Many Dark Souls features and mechanics are present here. You heal at bonfires, you have healing items that recharge when you rest, souls function as both EXP and currency, and each weapon comes with its own unique moveset. I'd say its biggest flaw is that its balance falls apart towards the end of the game, mostly in the player's favor. Endgame bosses are all about getting a turn or two to set up your super OHKO attack before the enemy hits you with their OHKO attack.

Spoiler: show
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Told you it's a Dark Souls ripoff. Also, despite how this looks, you can wear four rings at once, you just have to scroll down to see the other three slots.


Black Souls 2 is far more ambitious than its predecessor and draws more heavily from Bloodborne. Like early on you'll encounter a Victorian-era city, and there's an insight-like mechanic, and one of the best early game weapons is essentially the saw cleaver. The first game didn't reveal its full story unless you did some digging, but Black Souls 2 takes that idea to a ridiculous level and it's easily possible to go through multiple playthroughs and still have absolutely no idea of what is going on. I recommend playing through once while keeping your SEN at or above 100, and then a second time keeping it at or below 0. For the latter, try to get it down as early as you can. After doing those you should have a good idea of what kinds of things are possible in the game and maybe you'll have a few leads on how to go for the real ending. Make sure to talk to Dodo west of the city of Lutwidge and learn her special skill as early as you can. If you're doing a low SEN run then at least briefly raise your SEN high enough to speak with her so you can pick that up. There are two English translations of Black Souls 2 floating around on the internet. You want the one that doesn't have the F95 logo slapped onto the title screen, that one is a bad machine translation.

Spoiler: show
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This fight is bad news in more ways than one


If you want to buy legitimate copies, there are official English language versions of both Black Souls games for sale at dlsite for 1,650 JPY (about $15) each. Give them a shot if you're not absolutely opposed to playing H games.


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:35 am 


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Been playing "you can't fuck on an empty stomach "

that's a H game alright. Friend of mine bought it for my birthday last year as a joke.
..yep.. a joke. I've been streaming it to two buddies via discord.
Yep, nothing gay about that.. just 3 "straight" dudes laughing at awkward gay hentai scenes.
uh huh

Haha Vanguard that game looks cool but my god with the amount of good games and RPGs out there a legit H-game probably defaults to the bottom of the list.
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:09 pm 


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Add me to the list of people who hasn't played Pier Solar yet and can't give any kind of an opinion.

I just wrapped up a no spending gold/ignoring shopkeepers run of Final Fantasy Legend III. By far the easiest of the three GB games, where normally you can end up with 4 characters packing 60% heal all spells, 2 of them with max HP revive spells, and so on. Without any of that, your best healing is an early game farmed 60% HP single target heal for all members, which is still very workable for the game, and the game hands two of the best weapons in the game to you basically with no real effort. Humans and Mutants are kinda trash in this game compared to previous, due to the mechanics. Their gimmicks aren't worth the steep HP penalty both have compared to their Beast/Monster/Robot counterparts.

I'm starting getting into the Wild Arms series. I only had a bit of experience previously with Wild Arms 4, where the hex system felt like it was complexity for complexity's sake? It's been a decade though, figured I should start from the beginning and give the series a proper chance; what are the best games in the series? Which ones should I avoid or anticipate being weaker?
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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:31 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
I recently played through a pair of interesting Dark Souls-inspired doujin JRPGs called Black Souls and Black Souls 2.

Are these coming to Game Pass?


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I just wrapped up a no spending gold/ignoring shopkeepers run of Final Fantasy Legend III. By far the easiest of the three GB games, where normally you can end up with 4 characters packing 60% heal all spells, 2 of them with max HP revive spells, and so on. Without any of that, your best healing is an early game farmed 60% HP single target heal for all members, which is still very workable for the game, and the game hands two of the best weapons in the game to you basically with no real effort. Humans and Mutants are kinda trash in this game compared to previous, due to the mechanics. Their gimmicks aren't worth the steep HP penalty both have compared to their Beast/Monster/Robot counterparts.


Actually, Humans and Mutants are by far the strongest class types, unfortunately. They deal more than double attack and spell damage respectively due to the damage algorithm, the only other class that comes close are the Beasts with their +50% attack multiplier when using kungfu weapons. And of course robots can be thiCC bois for a little while early on when you can pump their stats with the $money to make up for their comparative power disability in the mid to late game.

There might be talents that are secretly great, but my experience with the end game forms is that they're dogshit. Especially my favorite type: the monsters.

Also the Saga 3 remake on the DS is terrible: it isn't the same game, it's a reskin of the Saga 2 remake. And it has double the necessary inputs in battle to simply attack (the Shining Force remake for the GBA has similar insanity).


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 Post subject: Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:05 pm 


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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 4263
Location: Villa Straylight
Yes that's an underrated point.
I started Persona 2 Innocent Sin on psp a while back, have given up for now.

The amount of time it took to input one round of attacks was bananas. Everything dragged on so long.
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1cc List - Youtube - You emptylock my heart


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