Turrican 30th

[Austin]

plays and behaves exactly like the original from what I remember.

So it plays like shit?

That's pretty much every version of SOTB in a nutshell though, right?

[Turrican]

That's pretty much every version of SOTB in a nutshell though, right?

Actually, no. It's known that some developers were painfully aware of the shortcomings of the original design, and (maybe coupled with the fact that they just couldn't replicate the visual splendor) worked around corners to make the game less punishing and more playable.

Last time I checked DMA design's PCE-CD version seemed the more balanced of the lot. But also the SMS version has its fans.

[Austin]

That's pretty much every version of SOTB in a nutshell though, right?

Actually, no. It's known that some developers were painfully aware of the shortcomings of the original design, and (maybe coupled with the fact that they just couldn't replicate the visual splendor) worked around corners to make the game less punishing and more playable.

Last time I checked DMA design's PCE-CD version seemed the more balanced of the lot. But also the SMS version has its fans.

I was more referring to the "playing like shit" part. I think the PCE CD version falls in that category for one reason or another, as other versions do. They all have their quirks. That said, I'm still a fan of it, and a lot of the other versions. Even the US Genesis version that plays too fast (it was the first version of Beast I finished. Brutal). Lynx one has always held a special place for me especially. I really like what they added and how they reworked the existing levels. It's the most manageable gameplay-wise too, but it's still not what I would call "kind" to the player. Timing is still strict.

I have no idea how anyone could enjoy the SMS port though. There's got to be a contrarian or two in every circle, I guess.

[Herr Schatten]

I have no idea how anyone could enjoy the SMS port though. There's got to be a contrarian or two in every circle, I guess.

I haven't played it myself, but I remember it getting quite good reviews back in the day, which puzzled me even then. Videos of it make it look exactly as dire as you'd expect, though.

[Turrican]

I remember it getting quite good reviews back in the day, which puzzled me even then. Videos of it make it look exactly as dire as you'd expect, though.

I think It was a combo of amazement that It was getting a port at all, three good years since the original, on a japanese 8bit console, by a californian developer. That and the fact that they had shuffled things a bit (not to the extent of SMS ghouls n ghosts, but you get the idea). The complete name of the release, according to the manual, should in fact be "Shadow of the Beast Mastermix '92", although no one refers to It that way.

Remember, in 1992 the Master System was already long dead in the US. The reviews therefore were from an european continental or more likely from a British publication. Virgin Mastertronic was the distributor and responsible for the SMS fortunes this side of the pond, so for British magazines It was delightful to assess the clout of their soft power (I think SMS Kick Off was the highest rated software *ever* for the console on Mean Machines and / or CVG). The fact that they had "Beast" sold to the world was a bit like when they had given the world Beatles.

[Marc]

plays and behaves exactly like the original from what I remember.

So it plays like shit?

That's pretty much every version of SOTB in a nutshell though, right?

Honestly, back in the day I enjoyed the C64 cart version enough to complete it.
Still very European, but they'd jettisoned a lot of the shit in the Amiga version and it wasn't bad at all.

[Turrican]

they'd jettisoned a lot of the shit in the Amiga version and it wasn't bad at all.

It's a well known story. To quote the relevant passage:

"Cinemaware ported Defender of the Crown to a plethora of other platforms over the next couple of years. Ironically, virtually all of the ports were much better game games than the Amiga version, fixing the minigames to make them comprehensible and reasonably entertaining and tightening up the design to make it at least somewhat more difficult to sleepwalk to victory."

Rough diamonds that need another cut. If you read along the lines, you'll see It's the story underlying this thread too.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Turrican Flashback on the way - regular retail release cut dowm from the anthology collection:

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2020/ ... n_december

Regular retail release for Amiga Turrican 1 & 2, and Mega and Super Turrican. I suppose they can't undercut the anthology release but I find it a bit odd to release a cut down version for regular retail. Super Turrican 2, although it's a more linear departure for the series, is still worth the admission price of the anthology. Presumably they'll slap it out on the eshop later separately?

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Sneaky. Definitely woundn't have pre-ordered the March/April release if I'd have known there was a retail version coming in December. Won't fool me twice!

[Ghegs]

Sneaky. Definitely woundn't have pre-ordered the March/April release if I'd have known there was a retail version coming in December. Won't fool me twice!

Worth noting that this and the releases from Strictly Limited Games do not have the same content, with SLG's having more games included, assuming you got both of the Turrican Anthologies either individually or as part of the Collector's Editions.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

^We get all the director's cuts/remixes then a CD, artbook and bluray "documentary". I think ST2 is basically worthless, time will tell if all this is worth the extra time and money. Oh and it's April/May release.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Super Turrican 2 might be a stylistic departure for the series but what makes it worthless?

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

ST2 is a mish-mosh of poorly implemented ideas rolled together. In no particular order: The pointless tank section, the bland 3D bike levels, the horrible 3D flying level, the cringeworthy 'cinematic' interludes and a final boss that would look more at home in a Sonic the Hedgehog game. Everything that made the first couple of games great ie. open level exploration, great situational weaponry and excellent tunes have been erased in favour of Factor 5 trying to emulate whatever they were playing in their lunch hours. The decline started with T3 which played decently but was obviously an unsuccessful attempt to remake Contra 3 (that Terminator boss) rather than produce a legitimate continuation. There's more Contra 3 ideas show up in ST2 - missile leaping, driving.

Huelsbeck was well into his 'orchestral' phase (probably getting ready to score Rogue Squadron) and I have to say that besides 'wormland' there isn't a single memorable tune in the whole game.

The underwater bit! Ugh. I think that less than 50% of the game is actually platforming.

[Turrican]

ST2 is a mish-mosh of poorly implemented ideas rolled together. In no particular order: The pointless tank section, the bland 3D bike levels, the horrible 3D flying level, the cringeworthy 'cinematic' interludes and a final boss that would look more at home in a Sonic the Hedgehog game. Everything that made the first couple of games great ie. open level exploration, great situational weaponry and excellent tunes have been erased in favour of Factor 5 trying to emulate whatever they were playing in their lunch hours. The decline started with T3 which played decently but was obviously an unsuccessful attempt to remake Contra 3 (that Terminator boss) rather than produce a legitimate continuation. There's more Contra 3 ideas show up in ST2 - missile leaping, driving.

Huelsbeck was well into his 'orchestral' phase (probably getting ready to score Rogue Squadron) and I have to say that besides 'wormland' there isn't a single memorable tune in the whole game.

The underwater bit! Ugh. I think that less than 50% of the game is actually platforming.

I agree on everything but not on the harsh judgment on Mega/3. Mega/3 was a solid attempt at making something different than the previous ones, ie an action console game. The fact that It takes a couple of visual cues from a Contra game doesn't make It an attempt to ape Contra more than It apes Thunderforce IV (yes, I'm sure everyone has notice the Rynex scraps in the junkyard section).

So I'd reverse your point of view, rather than "beginning of decline" It was the "last hurrah". Not the old formula but a fully fleshed deserving title in another vein.

It's absolutely true that Snes got the short end of the Stick here, with the first Super trying to cling to the original formula but being just too severed in content and not fully fleshed out to pass the cut. Nowadays I play more Universal Soldier than this when I just want to explore stages. And the second has all the issues that you mentioned, that to be fair to Factor 5 were the "trend" of the moment. After Earthworm Jim or Gunstar Heroes no one was trying to do an action platform without interrupting It with the most random weird gameplay sequences. Alien Soldier and to a degree Contra Hardcorps fit the same mold. Of course there's an abyss in gap with ST2 results which never feel particularly compelling. Nice spider boss though.

[Turrican]

Which of course It's not to say that an abriged collection Is anything excusable. These are a bunch of roms taking hardly 20 megabyte of space all together.

Just the idea of splitting the collection into two volumes Is beyond insanity to me.

Having a "standard" release with less roms inside is... Well It stinks beyond words can describe.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

(yes, I'm sure everyone has notice the Rynex scraps in the junkyard section).

Not with my extremely limited Amiga palette.

T3/Mega is fine, with arguably the best soundtrack in the series (watery dungeon, holy shit!) - but why abandon the things that really made the series stand out (360 laser, wide open levels) only to copy 'trendy' console games?

Another game that springs to mind is Rocket Knight, where the robot fight and the flying stages break the pace nicely. Actually, the flying and swimming was implemented fine in the first three Turricans. ST2 feels like one of those old movie tie-ins where its a bunch of disconnected minigames stitched together to try and resemble a story. Like Batman the Movie, with the factory then the driving then the flying. -And there's a part where the badguys capture Turrican and he has to break out of jail. But you don't play this part, it's just described in some between-levels text. Even Beast 2 got this part right!!

Oh, and I recently confirmed that the golden Turri trick does not work in Mega.

[Turrican]

why abandon the things that really made the series stand out (360 laser, wide open levels) only to copy 'trendy' console games?

Turrican II was definitive. They probably felt that way (and rightly so). More in the same footsteps would have probably felt tired imitation. Boring to play again, boring to code again. Everyone wanted to stay clear of the "more of the same" approach, or the "Golden Axe II Syndrome"... I support their idea to try and shaken things up a bit. It only worked with Mega/3 though.

Mega/3 has not enough roaming, but the weapon system does justice to the old days, I feel. Spreadshot, Laser work as intended and the white wall bouncing weapon is a passable substitute: you definitely want to play certain sections with the right weapon, as in the previous games.

[Marc]

It's absolutely true that Snes got the short end of the Stick here, with the first Super trying to cling to the original formula but being just too severed in content and not fully fleshed out to pass the cut. Nowadays I play more Universal Soldier than this when I just want to explore stages. And the second has all the issues that you mentioned, that to be fair to Factor 5 were the "trend" of the moment. After Earthworm Jim or Gunstar Heroes no one was trying to do an action platform without interrupting It with the most random weird gameplay sequences. Alien Soldier and to a degree Contra Hardcorps fit the same mold. Of course there's an abyss in gap with ST2 results which never feel particularly compelling. Nice spider boss though.

I've warmed considerably to Super T1 these days. Retains all the good bits of the originals, but gets to the point a lot quicker.
I've also just realised that I've never actually played that Universal Soldier game. Even at the time, the look if it was just..... eeewwwww.

This new release is a pretty shitty thing to do though.

[Turrican]

I've warmed considerably to Super T1 these days. Retains all the good bits of the originals, but gets to the point a lot quicker.

To me it's the opposite. I began in awe since it retained a classic mood of free roaming (mostly in the first world), but nowadays I feel retaining that isn't worth the trade. 'Cause when I need roaming / explore I always go to unmatched OCS Turrican II, or if I'm stuck on console hardware, I opt for the NES one.

But mostly what diminished ST1 in my eyes todays is that, for the developing reasons most of you already know by now, it shares a lot of assets with Mega/3. But here's the point: the stuff it doesn't get from Mega/3 happens to be my favorite in that game: swimming underwater world with creepy octopus boss; junkyard section filled with lots of nice little touches; epic last section with nuts and screws stage and proper last fight.
ST1 ditches all of that, and trades it for Ice stage and Volcano stage, both of which aren't really special. Ice in particular is the dreaded generic location that you'd expect to find unchanged in platformers such as Robocod or Fire & Ice. I like the steam factory world, but am not really thrilled by the mode seven biggie face boss.

I guess this video does a good job to sum my feelings nowadays. Especially in the 15-to-4 bosses encounters comparison.

I'm no fan of the rope, but Mega/3 just flows better with much more content. That, and the freeze beam doesn't really add anything gameplay-wise. That, and the ST1 "beta" stuff marketed recently as "director's cut" only reinforced me in the impression that everything that had beed cut out from the initial commercial release, the game was really better without...

[BrianC]

I'm no fan of the rope, but Mega/3 just flows better with much more content. That, and the freeze beam doesn't really add anything gameplay-wise. That, and the ST1 "beta" stuff marketed recently as "director's cut" only reinforced me in the impression that everything that had beed cut out from the initial commercial release, the game was really better without...

I liked that some of the cut content had an actual use for the beam weapon, though much of the content feels unfinished, especially the train part that was used in Mega Turrican with an extra boss.

[Marc]

Well I ordered the Flashback collection and that hasn't arrived. Still no shipping date on the Vol.1 Anthology I ordered. Of course, if I'd gone digital, I'd be playing it now

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Preview with Chris Huelsbeck and the producer, they address the missing C64 port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_gESph ... Q95DzjJBi8

[BloodHawk]

Just bought the digital version of the flashback collection on PSN and I must say it's a pretty good package. It's only Turrican 1, 2, Super, and Mega but it's using a pretty good emulator.

- Multiple save states
- Basic display adjustments such as scan-lines, pixel sharpness, and screen stretching (it you want to commit heresy and stretch a 4:3 image into 16:9)
- For Turrican 1 at least Controls have been simplified so you don't need to crouch in order to do the roll or drop mines. They added a button for instant lightning instead of waiting for it to start up while holding the button down, and they enabled an option to change jump to a separate button instead of pressing up. Oh and since the lightning attack is a separate button the regular fire button is auto-fire. I haven't played the other titles that much but I imagine similar changes were made to those too.
- Rewind button, for those million times you will need it.

It doesn't have many "extras" at all, but it plays good and that is all that matters to me.

[spmbx]

Preview with Chris Huelsbeck and the producer, they address the missing C64 port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_gESph ... Q95DzjJBi8

For everyone that doesnt want to skip through a whole video for the answer, basically old contracts are a mess and noone knows who has the rights or how to get them.

[Marc]

It's a shame, I'd say for the first game at least the C64 version was probably the better regarded. Was nothing outstanding for the Amiga even at the time, whereas the C64 version pushed the machine hard.

Still, nice to see that the emulation that's there is on-par. I've been playing bits of Gods Remastered, and not only is it a terrible game, but whichever version they've emulated looks like absolute ass.

[Ghegs]

Preview with Chris Huelsbeck and the producer, they address the missing C64 port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_gESph ... Q95DzjJBi8

For everyone that doesnt want to skip through a whole video for the answer, basically old contracts are a mess and noone knows who has the rights or how to get them.

That's pretty interesting. I wonder if the NES port was excluded for the same reasons. But then, there are other reasons to exclude it as well (not perceived as classic as the other titles, not wanting to bother with an emulator for a fourth system, etc).

[MintyTheCat]

It's a shame, I'd say for the first game at least the C64 version was probably the better regarded. Was nothing outstanding for the Amiga even at the time, whereas the C64 version pushed the machine hard.

I agree: the C64 version was very good.

I did play the NES version a few years ago and it seemed a little similar, but I didn't really play much of it due to time.

The vertical scrolling level was really a surprise when I first got to it.

[spmbx]

Played turrican1 today, first time since the amiga days. I feel it would have been better if it stayed a good memory. I mean it wasnt bad but i can't say it was particularly good. The soundtrack sounded pretty stale too, which is probably due to the ancient mod samples. Should i try any of the other parts?

[MintyTheCat]

Played turrican1 today, first time since the amiga days. I feel it would have been better if it stayed a good memory. I mean it wasnt bad but i can't say it was particularly good. The soundtrack sounded pretty stale too, which is probably due to the ancient mod samples. Should i try any of the other parts?

On the Amiga, Turrican 3 is better pretty much - the music's very good too.

[BrianC]

The Amiga version of Turrican 1 still blows the Genesis port out of the water (though a hack fixes some of its issues). I can't wait for the PS4 Turrican Anthology v. 1 to ship so I can see if there are any differences with its version of the Super Turrican Director's Cut compared to the version of the Super NT. Curious what the Mega Turrican DC has to offer, as well, since it feels more polished and complete compared to Super Turrican. I ordered the cart for that one, though I already have the original on cart (but not complete).