Prelude to the Apocalypse

[Mischief Maker]

President Fuck Stick

[cvaniafan]

I guess I can't blame a bunch of people who believe a guy they voted for and arguably like lying through his teeth for months. I mean, I'm not sure at what point you blame the gullible. I mean do you believe Trump won the popular vote in 2016 (when it doesn't even matter to anything except his ego)? He certainly does... again... without proof.

In 2016, I remember Hillary Clinton's camp openly suspected electoral fraud in Trump's victory, even Hillary Clinton herself suggested it and was forced to ask her supporters to accept it without violence. It's kind of funny how in 2016 the Dems did what they blame Trump for ^^
There has been a problem of organization and reliability with postal voting for a long time in the USA. Remember that in 2000 we realized that Al Gore had probably won the presidential election by winning Florida, and yet it was G.W. Bush who was elected president... If it weren't for these organizational and postal voting problems in the US elections, Trump could not have raised these suspicions. And admit that some odd things happened during the vote count, with thousands of pro-Biden ballots suddenly arriving overnight. The whole press, which for months had been announcing a massive and easy victory for Biden, trembled for the first two days after the election when they saw Trump leading the results. Even if your counting machines are very sophisticated, postal voting should be banned from your system because it is a vector of fraud, for this reason it has been banned since 1975 in France.

[BulletMagnet]

If you want some bullshit, look at Texas closing all but one drop off location per county during a pandemic. They don't even try to hide voter suppression. YEEEEHAAAAW!

They also had my favorite post-election moment with that openly insulting Supreme Court suit, whose central premise (filed, one should note, by an Attorney General under investigation for securities fraud) was not only that voter fraud had occurred, but that it was so widespread and so pervasive that producing evidence of it was impossible. Of course, when the SC (two-thirds conservative judges, one-third appointed by Daddy himself - obviously Deep State plants ) refused to even hear it, they didn't even have to go that far, since allowing one state to overturn another state's results with zero evidence if they didn't like the results would pretty much kill the point of even having elections.

And that's before you even get into the additional facts that:

1) This was one of the rare Trumpian court filings that actually bothered to assert that voter fraud had even happened at all; in most cases they'd get in front of the cameras boasting about how much evidence they had, but once in court would openly admit they weren't alleging fraud, but were attempting to change the outcome through some incredibly tortured "reinterpretation" of the law as written;

2) This pervasive, systemwide fraud was only ever alleged to have occurred, somehow, in the states whose vote tallies were close enough for Trump to potentially overturn, states he won or lost decisively were all apparently fine;

3) Even more incredulously, the pervasive, systemwide fraud somehow only happened with the votes for President; despite having been tallied on the exact same ballots, the array of GOP wins for lower office were all completely fine, and required no additional scrutiny whatsoever.

Naturally, over 100 GOP lawmakers and attorneys general from other states clambered over each other to attach their name to this, and are all but guaranteed face no electoral consequences for it from their skeptical constituents who need to heal.

And all our own Junior Detective Election Skeptics out there, with finely-tuned noses for irregularities and the burning need to ask the tough questions? Somehow their patriotic spider-senses also utterly fail to tingle.

postal voting should be banned from your system because it is a vector of fraud

I'm pretty sure I've posted these exact same links while previously talking to a wall on here, but here we go again: in-person voter fraud, which conservatives still like to complain about when it suits them, barely exists, and mail voter fraud is nearly as rare.

[Sengoku Strider]

In 2016, I remember Hillary Clinton's camp openly suspected electoral fraud in Trump's victory, even Hillary Clinton herself suggested it and was forced to ask her supporters to accept it without violence. It's kind of funny how in 2016 the Dems did what they blame Trump for ^^

The bi-partisan Senate Intelligence Committee released not one but two unanimous and incredibly detailed reports regarding foreign interference in the 2016 election. Super patriotic US right wing newsertainment decided to pretend this never happened because their viewers didn't want to hear it. So they rolled with the shameless "Russia Russia Russia - fake news nothing burger" lie Trump was peddling.

Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference in the 2016 U.S. Election - http://www.intelligence.senate.gov.

There has been a problem of organization and reliability with postal voting for a long time in the USA.

No there hasn't. There's been a problem of democratic voters using mail-in voting more than republican voters, which is why Trump concocted that inane story to begin with. The whole silly saga was just to suppress the opposition vote. Trump lodged a court case in Pennsylvania - presided over by a judge he himself had appointed - to try and curtail mail-in voting counts & voter drop boxes ahead of time. He failed because when the judge issued a written order for them to produce evidence that it wasn't secure, they couldn't come up with any. On account of it didn't exist.

Here's 40 studies, 20 court cases and several investigations - both government and independent, including the Republican National Lawyers' Association, Harvard, Stanford, and one commissioned by the Trump administration itself - which detail just how supremely bullshit the voter fraud panic was.

And the worst part is the Trump campaign machine & its media enablers pushed this knowing that mail-in voting would save lives in the middle of a pandemic. They just didn't give a fuck.

[orange808]

Clinton did the shit in her emails. She's fucking guilty. Did Gorby's spot make her cheat?

"I got caught because Soda Popinski is a tattle tale! W-aaaaaaaaah!"

Shut the fuck up. What did she learn? Nothing. Fuck!

[Mischief Maker]

Clinton did the shit in her emails. She's fucking guilty. Did Gorby's spot make her cheat?

"I got caught because Soda Popinski is a tattle tale! W-aaaaaaaaah!"

Shut the fuck up. What did she learn? Nothing. Fuck!

Dude, there is plenty of out-in-the-open shit to attack Hillary Clinton over without delving into right-wing conspiracy land.

Pizzagate was bullshit, as clearly proven when an armed vigilante broke into Comet Ping Pong and failed to find ANY basement, much less one with a child sex slave dungeon in it. Take a look at the guy who started it. He's the same guy who got James Gunn fired from Disney. Does this look like a trustworthy man to you?

Saying Rush Limbaugh's conspiracy theory that the Clintons killed Vince Foster was false does not preclude me for condemning Hillary Clinton for voting yes to the Iraq war.

[cvaniafan]

There has been a problem of organization and reliability with postal voting for a long time in the USA.

No there hasn't. There's been a problem of democratic voters using mail-in voting more than republican voters, which is why Trump concocted that inane story to begin with. The whole silly saga was just to suppress the opposition vote. Trump lodged a court case in Pennsylvania - presided over by a judge he himself had appointed - to try and curtail mail-in voting counts & voter drop boxes ahead of time. He failed because when the judge issued a written order for them to produce evidence that it wasn't secure, they couldn't come up with any. On account of it didn't exist.

This is your analysis, but cases of electoral fraud or skewed counts exist in the history of the US elections, it is no secret to anyone. And these problems have often been linked to counting machines, or pressure from mafia groups, there are many independent articles on this subject, like the election of 1960, Kennedy VS Nixon which is a good example.
The USA is a very large country, but I'll keep thinking that postal voting should be abolished, the counting should be done in a perfectly visible way in all states, and in the presence of representatives of each party.

That said, I know it's a tradition not to dispute the outcome of an election even when there is a suspicion of fraud, and I admit that Trump did not have the necessary evidence to support his suspicions.
Moreover, it must be recognized that since the very first day of his presidential term, the Dems have really tried everything for 4 years to have him dismissed.
They have constantly refused to admit one single merit in his term despite some successes -never forget that Trump was democratically elected by part of the American people.
Even here, the French media have never stopped to ridicule him. The main media, press, showbiz and social networks have deployed a phenomenal anti-Trump strike force... Honestly, as far as I can remember, I have never seen so much virulent daily propaganda against an elected president, it was just amazing.
So, it's true that Trump has personnality flaws in many ways, but still there was (there IS) something quite fishy about that permanent brainwashing from the mass media.

[orange808]

Clinton did the shit in her emails. She's fucking guilty. Did Gorby's spot make her cheat?

"I got caught because Soda Popinski is a tattle tale! W-aaaaaaaaah!"

Shut the fuck up. What did she learn? Nothing. Fuck!

Dude, there is plenty of out-in-the-open shit to attack Hillary Clinton over without delving into right-wing conspiracy land.

Yeah. Like being fed debate questions and setting the debate schedule to suit her primary campaign. There's also the issue of working with the press to smear her opponent in the primary.

I didn't follow the other stupid petty little lame bullshit you mentioned. That's just right wing porn. The people that consume Fox News already have their minds made up, so I don't worry about it. Boomer Republicans like to hear comforting things in their echo chamber; they are determined to find affirmation. Petty shit like Bengazi and pizzagate fit the bill perfectly. It's not like Fox News lovers were ever on the fence about their voting preference. That's just noise.

The DNC's primary shenanigans are not noise, though. She did that. I'm tired of hearing how unfair it is for me to know what she did. If you don't want to be embarrassed, stop cheating. Then, Soda Popinski won't laugh at you.

[BryanM]

Russian Active Measures Campaigns and Interference in the 2016 U.S. Election - http://www.intelligence.senate.gov.

oh god these propaganda documents always take me back. Hyperbolic adjectives like "unprecedented"... The line "In all the interviews of those who drafted and prepared the ICA, the Committee heard consistently that analysts were under no politically motivated pressure to reach specific conclusions" is particularly laughable. "The humans that have been selected to work for us are the only humans on the planet that are not humans." Yeah... these guys are great, those aluminum tubes that might have theoretically existed were totally grounds for the Iraq War. Very well reviewed by their competitors, like all good science yeah?

A giant SCP-style black sheet that says "RT America exists, and the leftist commentators on it don't like Clinton very much". Astonishing.

It's kind of an insane and genocidal attitude that pervades their culture - that no other entity that isn't under their boot should be allowed to exist and do anything. Seems they're rather in agreement with the fascist philosophy of manifest destiny - shocking.

[Mischief Maker]

I didn't follow the other stupid petty little lame bullshit you mentioned. That's just right wing porn.

Whoops, when you said she's guilty, I thought you meant of an actual crime. My mistake.

[orange808]

If you think things have changed, you're wrong.

https://fox4kc.com/news/kc-woman-killed ... utors-say/

That isn't Trump's fault. That's status quo America. I read something about the big changes since the 1980's in big cities. What changes?

[orange808]

More people voted against Biden in the primaries than for him.

Apparently, that matters. Oh wait, it doesn't matter! That's only applies when we're moving goalposts and full of shit.

[BulletMagnet]

More people voted against Biden in the primaries than for him.

Considering that the vote was split between numerous candidates I'm pretty sure you could say the same about literally anyone who was running.

[orange808]

More people voted against Biden in the primaries than for him.

Considering that the vote was split between numerous candidates I'm pretty sure you could say the same about literally anyone who was running.

It's not my benchmark. So, I'm not responsible for it's integrity.

It was deemed legitimate already, so it's grandfathered in. It's fair game. Goose and gander.

Don't woof bullshit and others won't use it against you. Similar to the corollary, don't cheat if you don't want to get caught cheating. Centrists are Republicans.

[GaijinPunch]

In 2016, I remember Hillary Clinton's camp openly suspected electoral fraud in Trump's victory, even Hillary Clinton herself suggested it and was forced to ask her supporters to accept it without violence. It's kind of funny how in 2016 the Dems did what they blame Trump for ^^

So you're comparing Hillary's behavior in 2016 to Trump's in 2020? I just want to clarify.

There has been a problem of organization and reliability with postal voting for a long time in the USA.

There has not... despite what Trump told you. Bush won all the recounts in Florida, which were done, in a civil and manner. Gore didn't act like a huge pussy, throw a tantrum, and offer not a single shred of proof in the court. He ended up ceremoniously certifying Bush's win. To boot, W's administration researched and found none of what Trump has claimed.

[BryanM]

Kyle's commentary on a poll on "what is the biggest problem with the country" has me in a doomier mood than usual. In a bad way instead of the usual good one. Text book Hate, Inc stuff. How damn lost and hopeless we are.

Normally I feel good about the doom, we so clearly deserve it for being unable to be intelligent enough put a square peg into a square hole. Yet when a few people with all the money and all the power get to decide how oblivion shall embrace us... it's much worse than just being a moron dying from ingesting paint through your nose or whatever. It's like we're subcreatures with no autonomy, less than animals, just things.

That isn't funny or beautiful in any way.

Bush won all the recounts in Florida, which were done, in a civil and manner.

Bush didn't win anything, the hand recounts dictated by Florida's statures weren't done (even if you live in the world of TV, how could you miss them telling you the Supreme Court ordered them to be stopped?), Gore most likely won by a hundred votes if they were followed, we just went over this.

Did Gore's legal team fuck up by asking for a partial recount instead of a full one? Yes. Did Gore timidly go home and fuck himself after being fucked in public for everyone to see? Yes, of course.

He is a democrat, after all.

[orange808]

Bush won all the recounts in Florida, which were done, in a civil and manner.

Bush didn't win shit, the hand recounts dictated by Florida's statures weren't done (even if you live in the world of TV, how the hell did you miss them telling you the Supreme Court ordered them to be stopped?), Gore most likely won by a hundred votes if they were followed, we literally just went over this.

Did Gore's legal team fuck up by asking for a partial recount instead of a full one? Yes. Did Gore timidly go home and fuck himself after being fucked in public for everyone to see? Yes, of course.

He is a democrat, after all.

A hundred votes is too close to call. I was upset at the situation, but Gore did the right thing. Gore could have set off his own riots if he wasn't careful.

If Gore had run a better campaign with a different agenda, he might have won. It turns out the Iraq war wasn't something he could campaign on.
The Democrats were in a tough position on that issue. You can't make a national election a referendum on a war your own party supported. They tried to bend themselves into the right kind of pretzel to cover their disingenuous flip flopping, but it was always a tough sell. In the end, lots of people didn't buy it. The Dems were timid and milquetoast--and it cost them. I don't know how Democrats could have been extremely aggressive on Iraq, because they were already on the record with their support.

Some people blame a lack of turnout. I no longer agree. Looking at the unexpected boost Trump realized with better voter turnout, the commonly repeated "silent majority" argument seems to be debunked. If more people vote, Gore probably feels the sting. It turns out there are a shit ton of GOP voters that don't vote--and GOP suppression may be hurting their own bottom line.

Speaking of timid: is the moment the Democratic Party finally throws the racist southern fillibuster idea out? The Constitution already provides the president's veto as a "check and balance". We don't need an artificial sixty vote threshold. Furthermore, the GOP wouldn't hesitate, so there's no point in delaying the inevitable--unless the Dems actually want an excuse to do nothing.

[To Far Away Times]

I have to say I have never heard of the filibuster referred to as racist concept. I need details.

[cvaniafan]

In 2016, I remember Hillary Clinton's camp openly suspected electoral fraud in Trump's victory, even Hillary Clinton herself suggested it and was forced to ask her supporters to accept it without violence. It's kind of funny how in 2016 the Dems did what they blame Trump for ^^

So you're comparing Hillary's behavior in 2016 to Trump's in 2020? I just want to clarify.

Not at all. Hillary Clinton is a politician, and like all politicians chasing votes, she masquerades as a white dove, but uses, at least in part, the same methods she denounces and condemns in her political opponent(s). Politicians are all opportunists. For these persons, the end justifies the means, and Hillary Clinton is no exception. This is what I just meant.

There has been a problem of organization and reliability with postal voting for a long time in the USA.

There has not... despite what Trump told you.

Trump did not tell me anything. I am just an observer, and have read several unbiased articles (some are on Wikipedia too) which report issues of counting and electoral fraud during the history of the United States. Trump is not my president, and I do not support Trump, but I have witnessed a permanent daily anti-Trump media hype for 4 years, and I just try to observe with detachment and objectivity, without bias, at what happened and what he achieved during his term.

[Mischief Maker]

I have to say I have never heard of the filibuster referred to as racist concept. I need details.

Here are those details you requested.

[GaijinPunch]

Trump did not tell me anything. I am just an observer, and have read several unbiased articles (some are on Wikipedia too) which report issues of counting and electoral fraud during the history of the United States

Just like Trump, you'd need to have proof for anyone to believe this claim or for anything substantial to happen. There is none. Is there the oddball fuck up or maybe malicious vote cast here or there? Yes. Do they happen in person? Also yes. (Hint - you don't have to show an ID to vote). Maybe we should ban in person voting?

[Mischief Maker]

*sigh* Hillary Clinton didn't say Trump manufactured votes through mysterious unverifiable conspiracies. She pointed to actual laws on the books passed by Republican state legislatures specifically designed to disenfranchise poor and student voters by creating unnecessary flaming hoops for them to jump through in order to vote. Laws that said an NRA membership card was an acceptable ID to be able to vote, but a student ID was not, for example. Please stop putting me in a position of having to defend Hillary Clinton, you credulous people.

Fun fact: Roger Stone created his "Stop the Steal" website in 2016. The states that had a red mirage followed by a blue shift were states where Republican legislatures refused to allow mail-in ballots to be counted early and therefore have a full count around election night. In states like FL that allowed early counting, there was no mysterious shift. This was a manufactured controversy from the get-go.

As for the 2000 recount, all I can do is wistfully imagine if we had antifa black bloc back then to stop the Brooks Brother Riot from storming the building and stopping the recount with the threat of physical violence. Literally millions of lives and trillions of dollars could have been saved if we never had the Bush jr. administration, and maybe we would have actually taken some concrete steps to control the coming climate apocalypse.

[FinalBaton]

(Hint - you don't have to show an ID to vote). Maybe we should ban in person voting?

Or... show an ID to vote.

There have been a couple ten thousands votes switched by machines and while that wouldn't have swung the president elec one way or the other this time, it still looks bad. I hope your cuntry will get tighter vote count procedures next time because this didn't look good in the eye of us outside the US. kinda appeared sloppy for a big first world cuntry (and a superpower at that, albeit one in decline) to not have a tighter security around vote count.

[Mischief Maker]

(Hint - you don't have to show an ID to vote). Maybe we should ban in person voting?

Or... show an ID to vote.

There have been a couple ten thousands votes switched by machines

Citation please.

[FinalBaton]

Citation please.

I will dig for it but I clearly remember an MSM article that stated one of Trumps procedures lead to the finding of several thousands new votes

EDIT : ah so that's the one I came across. recount yielding 5900 ''new'' uncounted votes. has it been debunked? hopefully it has. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2 ... 19f7699b84

[Mischief Maker]

Citation please.

I will dig for it but I clearly remember an MSM article that stated one of Trumps procedures lead to the finding of several thousands new votes

EDIT : ah so that's the one I came across. recount yielding 5900 ''new'' uncounted votes. has it been debunked? hopefully it has. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2 ... 19f7699b84

During this recount, officials in four counties — Floyd, Fayette, Walton and Douglas — discovered a total of about 5,900 votes that were initially not reported due to unrelated human errors, reportedly slimming Biden’s statewide lead from 14,112 votes to 12,781 as most of those extra votes went to Trump.

Emphasis added.

Voting machines were not switching votes in this article. Human error.

For the record I'm against electronic voting machines, I want paper ballots so such errors can always be caught. But this dominion machine conspiracy theory is just another conspiracy theory to throw on the pile.

[cvaniafan]

Trump did not tell me anything. I am just an observer, and have read several unbiased articles (some are on Wikipedia too) which report issues of counting and electoral fraud during the history of the United States

Just like Trump, you'd need to have proof for anyone to believe this claim or for anything substantial to happen. There is none. Is there the oddball fuck up or maybe malicious vote cast here or there? Yes. Do they happen in person? Also yes. (Hint - you don't have to show an ID to vote). Maybe we should ban in person voting?

I'm not the right person to say this to, but to Wikipedia and the authors of these articles which have been published in many journals, including of the left wing.
As I said before, Trump is not my president, and I am just an observer. I think that different bell tones are interesting, and one should not restrict to a one-sided thought, especially when the media and the press exerted an extreme hype so that only one version is considered as THE TRUTH. Just a general remark: I don't need to be taken by the hand and be told every day what to think and how to think, I am able to discern things for myself, and I just hope tomorrow people will still be able to think by themselves and not be forced to be told the "right ideas" by the media and social networks as it already sounds and looks like today...

[orange808]

Trump did not tell me anything. I am just an observer, and have read several unbiased articles (some are on Wikipedia too) which report issues of counting and electoral fraud during the history of the United States

Just like Trump, you'd need to have proof for anyone to believe this claim or for anything substantial to happen. There is none. Is there the oddball fuck up or maybe malicious vote cast here or there? Yes. Do they happen in person? Also yes. (Hint - you don't have to show an ID to vote). Maybe we should ban in person voting?

This is not to me to say that, but to Wikipedia and the authors of these articles which have been published in many journals, including of the left wing.
As I said before, Trump is not my president, and I am just an observer. I think that different bell tones are interesting, and one should not restrict to a one-sided thought, especially when the media and the press exerted an extreme hype so that only one version is considered as THE TRUTH. Just a general remark: I don't need to be taken by the hand and be told every day what to think and how to think, I am able to discern things for myself, and I just hope tomorrow people will still be able to think by themselves and not be forced to be told the "right ideas" by the media and social networks as it already sounds and looks like today...

You're welcome to believe any fringe crackpot conspiracy theory you like, but you're still full of shit.

[cvaniafan]

You're welcome to believe any fringe crackpot conspiracy theory you like, but you're still full of shit.

You need to learn to read or you understand what you want to read, I never said I believed in a conspiracy theory. However I see you feel the need to judge me by insulting, which characterizes shitty little fascists like you who don't know how to do anything but call "conspirator" anyone who does not exactly reproduces your speech.

NOTE: When I said:

I think that different bell tones are interesting, and one should not restrict to a one-sided thought, especially when the media and the press exerted an extreme hype so that only one version is considered as THE TRUTH.

I was talking about Trump's overall assessment, I was NOT referring to an election fraud or conspiracy theory.

[Mischief Maker]

Again, if the Democrats rigged the election:

1) Why didn't they give themselves a filibuster-proof Senate supermajority?
2) Why did they lose seats in the house?
3) Why did they let themselves get wiped out in downballot state races right before census redistricting, opening to door to republican gerrymandering on steroids?