Prelude to the Apocalypse

[kitten]

it is utterly hilarious to me watching conservatives get a riot so completely and unambiguously their own shoved in and then whine like mother fucking piss babies about how persecuted they are after taking such glee in every act of police brutality up to this point. the useless cretins acting like the "other side" are the hypocrites (oops, they both are - liberal or conservative, you're still buying what America's authority is selling) when they're the most sensitive, weak, pampered individuals on the planet. hard to be happy about anything when authoritarianism is going to win at the end of the day no matter what and whose head it falls on, though you've got to take joy where you can find it.

i must mention i have particular contempt for liberals gleefully shouting "treason!" right now - as if this country's values, constitution, and history are worth a god damn. "unconstitutional" - good, fucking rewrite the goddamn thing, most other countries do periodically and chile is doing so, right now. as excited as i am to see the boot come down elsewhere for once and upon the heads of those who so worship it, i still know to revile the boot, not to wear it. there's just some schadenfreude to be had when people who so love it see it upon themselves.

[Ddshot]

What police brutality?The stats speak for themselves.let me guess black people are oppressed so they need rich white kids to speak for them.truth is nobody cares if ur gay,black,dress as a unicorn on sundays,live and let live as long as you don’t hurt anybody in the process.identity politics caused a massive division,fake out rage fuelled by msm and politicians who cater to the woke bs.there creating a problem which dosent exist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mortificator]

Hurr hurr what hundreds of videos of police brutality, prejudice doesnt exist

Sent from the iPhone inserted into my ass

[GaijinPunch]

What police brutality?The stats speak for themselves.

stats please

[FinalBaton]

piss babies

nice 100 Gecs reference

[BryanM]

An entity being in a position of power over other people and only being accountable to itself is obviously rather dumb. Little gives me more confidence than a giggling man in a suit pronouncing "We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong!"

Really reminds you of the good 'ole days, when the Catholic church protected pedophiles. Hoo, fuck the past and bringing it back, seriously.

(I think it was Boots that mentioned that tearing down monuments to monsters has been an important catharsis for the younger generation. It's definitely an overcompensation to call someone a racist for using the word "gip", but considering the nightmare hellscape we exist in, I guess it'd be abnormal and psychopathic to be 100% calm and cool these days.)

[Mischief Maker]

An entity being in a position of power over other people and only being accountable to itself is obviously rather dumb.

Uh... we already have an accountability measure in place, seriously flawed as it is.

It's called the "election."

The very thing these shit-smearing chuds were attempting to disrupt with violence and thereby enforce their minority will onto the majority who voted against the fascist.



Probably the most chilling thing about the zip-tie chuds is the distinctly sexual undercurrent to the right's AOC hatred. Remember that photo-shopped image of Trump forcing a distraught AOC to suck his dick that was going around the Border Patrol message boards? What would these people have done if they managed to get their zip-ties around her hands?

[system11]

Wow, it's getting much worse much more quickly.

I think what's interesting is the McCarthyism. I say interesting, actually it's horrifying. The kinds of people who have been just waiting for an excuse, have made the Capitol occupation / angry protest / riot that excuse. We're back to people wanting to make lists of course, back to doxing, inevitably this will lead to actual harassment and threat as it always does. These are the same people mostly as those who turned a blind eye to what the extremist elements in the BLM protests were doing - for example Portland "Antifa" conducting routine nightly political violence or the vulgar hilarity of "mostly peaceful" against the backdrop of a burning city block. Often these people are Twitter verified, but then so are despotic world powers who operate concentration camps or murder people over gender, so ... yeah whatever.

Places like Buzzfeed are pushing a narrative that it was a white supremacist riot, straight out of the "everyone I don't agree with is a fascist" book they keep by their beds. Honestly that's one of the very worst sites on the internet, a constant stream of incendiary bad faith takes designed to provoke angry response from their readers.

I don't see how any of this gets any better. I think the UK will get worse soon but it's probably going to be along the lines of a class split, that was always the big 'fault line' here dragged right back out into the open by responses to Covid. The only recent glimmer of hope was some politicians came out against British Gas blackmailing staff with fire/hire into taking worse employment conditions. Even better than that would be, I dunno, making it illegal? Seems that would be fair but they're too busy protecting granny from Covid by forcing her to go senile at home with no outside contact. Top marks.

[GaijinPunch]

The difference is BLM was based on people being fed up w/ police brutality towards black people. The people that stormed the Capitol believe that the jack asses who lost 62 court cases are right (or are using it as an excuse) and were fired up by the leader of the free world just hours before.

Obviously there were opportunists during the BLM protests (on both sides) but this is comparing apples & oranges.

[system11]

The difference is BLM was based on people being fed up w/ police brutality towards black people. The people that stormed the Capitol believe that the jack asses who lost 62 court cases are right (or are using it as an excuse) and were fired up by the leader of the free world just hours before.

Obviously there were opportunists during the BLM protests (on both sides) but this is comparing apples & oranges.

It doesn't matter what the reason was when you set on fire the businesses of innocent people (in one case, with someone inside). We're kind of past why you did it at that point. It doesn't matter that you burned down a Walmart, because people in the local area work in that Walmart. It doesn't matter when you try to burn down public property or throw molotevs / fireworks through windows rather than just forcing the door, walking in and making a nuisance of yourself.

The reason, is inconsequential when innocent people suffer as a result.

That's why the double standards are even more ridiculous than they could be - you're right in that the two aren't comparable. Breaking into a state building and blocking politicians doing their jobs as a protest against what they're doing (misguided or not) is simply not as bad as harming innocent individuals and businesses and putting the lives of emergency services in danger who have to deal with it. Of course some people died (mostly protesters) but that was not the purpose or aim of the exercise, while the purpose and aim of the worst parts of the March riots was simply to destroy.

Obviously we are discounting actual peaceful protesters from March here, and we are discounting the people who stood and watched outside the Capitol.

[orange808]

@system11
I'm not going to start licking turds to see which one tastes better. You shouldn't either. Bad behavior is bad behavior; full stop.

With that said:

As you are not in country, I must remind you: there were no significant irregularities in this election (to begin with). Florida (hanging chads) was the last time there were reasonable concerns, but even that was fairly small and due to human error.

While I can't always agree with Gajinpunch, there is merit in the observation. I agree people have a right to peacefully protest, but this mob stormed into the captial without a legitimate grievance. Given their nonsensical cause, I have very little patience for mayhem. Like Hillary before him, Trump lost.

[Mischief Maker]

Spoiler

[orange808]

Spoiler

Is that phishing or a real thing? lol

If Trump goes through with it, we may be able to nail him with RICO.

[Durandal]

It doesn't matter what the reason was when you set on fire the businesses of innocent people (in one case, with someone inside). We're kind of past why you did it at that point. It doesn't matter that you burned down a Walmart, because people in the local area work in that Walmart. It doesn't matter when you try to burn down public property or throw molotevs / fireworks through windows rather than just forcing the door, walking in and making a nuisance of yourself.

And those people responsible should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the jam, as violence for the sake of violence is an inefficient means of bringing about desired social change. What's also an inefficient means of bringing about desired social change is hyper-focusing on optics, when a) no matter how much you publicly decry the bad apples, moderates and people dishonestly pretending to be moderates will still give you shit, and b) how are you supposed to bring about desired social change through the established institutions of justice when it's those institutions themselves you're protesting?

Unlike the Capitol situation, the BLM riots ignited spontaneously and without organization (people weren't selling merch about the Big Day of The Happening, for one). Large groups of people saw the news of George Floyd, collectively went "fuck it", and spontaneously started rioting in the streets. Even if you were to dispense justice accordingly, as more than several rioters most likely deserve, how do you even go about doing that from a logistical standpoint? We're talking about massive groups of people that local prisons can't even begin to hold. Nor were these riots being incited and spurred on by a central talking head (like Trump) that we can conveniently assign most of the blame to. And even if justice was somehow served for every rioter, how does that address the root of the problem that ignited the whole ordeal? How does that prevent something similar from happening in the future? Even if it seemed to ignite spontaneously, it's not as if people spontaneously decided on a random day to riot on the street "just 'cause", and it's not as if it hasn't been brewing for a long time.

If your intent is keeping the peace, forgoing to look at the conditions that caused a lashing out like this in favor of "Throwing the Bad Guys in Jail. Mission Accomplished" like a third-rate comic book superhero is shooting yourself in the foot in the long-term. So it bears asking if keeping the discourse locked on this particular topic is actually any helpful for all parties involved. That's not downplaying the issues at hand, that's being willing to look at the issues from a long-term perspective instead of a purely short-term one.

It's like those film critics whose only means of criticizing a film is by pointing out plot holes and narrative inconsistencies (which anyone can do), instead of looking at all the other aspects of the film that more directly contribute to it being painful to watch.

[FinalBaton]

footage of cop getting crushed is pretty grueling. but I bet Trump fanatics don't bat an eyelid aboot it this one time

and on the flipside, there's a chance that people on the far left are concerned aboot the life of a cop for the first time in their goddamn life

see? both XTREEMS suck.

[BIL]

We Love Our Cops!

[Mischief Maker]

We Love Our Cops!

It's amazing how many luminaries of the alt-right are just guys who wanted to get into showbiz, failed, then discovered by accident one day while throwing spaghetti at the wall with random edge-lording that there was a huge audience waiting to give them money for white-supremacy-themed mediocrity.

[FinalBaton]

We Love Our Cops!

LMAO that particular guy himself was in the Capitol raid? that's just too fucking much.

Even if he hadn't been, vid would've been hilarious. But him in a mob frothing at the mouth and squealing while shoving law enforcements and harming severals, is just mind blowing ûber-schadenfreûde

BIL, how come you always find these delicious über-scadenfreûdes

We love our cops! yeah bud you sure do when you attack them inside the Capitol and a family man is lying on the floor and unleashing bone-chilling death shrieks and you keep on shoving

[system11]

Obviously there's a subjective element to this, but my whole point is that a LOT of prominent people are treating one extreme as acceptable, and one arguably far lower impact extreme as literally the worst thing that has ever happened.

I expect double standards from most individuals at this point but when it's coming from people in media & politics who have influence over others that's when it becomes a huge problem. They don't see that they're functionally equivalent to what they accuse Trump of at that point. They delight in pushing an end goal where government and corporations have complete control over public discourse with punishments for dissent - an essential component of a certain type of state.

[Mortificator]

It doesn't matter what the reason was when you set on fire the businesses of innocent people (in one case, with someone inside). We're kind of past why you did it at that point. It doesn't matter that you burned down a Walmart, because people in the local area work in that Walmart. It doesn't matter when you try to burn down public property or throw molotevs / fireworks through windows rather than just forcing the door, walking in and making a nuisance of yourself.

If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle.

Wonder which of these guys knows what he's talking about?

Protesters in NYC could do 180 thousand dollars in damage a day, every single day, for a year, and still cause less financial loss to the people than what the NYPD does in police brutality settlements. Clutching pearls with gasps of "oh please think of the Walmarts!!" ignores that the state causes vastly more suffering just as a matter of course.

[BryanM]

For another story of regulatory capture, the story of the chemicals they put into water to make the frogs gay is another heartwarming one.

As you are not in country, I must remind you: there were no significant irregularities in this election (to begin with). Florida (hanging chads) was the last time there were reasonable concerns, but even that was fairly small and due to human error.

lol "fairly small" lol "human error"

Ignore the Palm Beach butterfly ballot that got Pat Buchanan an abnormally high number of votes in a democratic district. It's fuckery, but was legal because the powers that be said it was legal. Under Florida law voter intent is sufficient to make a vote count, and a full hand count was supposed to happen when the margin was that small. Dimpled chads were supposed to be counted, and when they actually were, Gore won the election by around 100 votes, depending on the standard used.

So a presidential election literally was stolen in the past, but no one complained about it and no one Naruto-ran face first into the capital in a frothing rage. Depending on how much faith one has in Democrats, one could even say we would be a net megadeath less or so in the world right now, but we can never know for certain.

If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle.

Ah, Fred was a good one. The champions of apathy and bootlicking the status quo are great allies of fascism - they get to make and keep gains and never ever actually have to face setbacks or opposition.

"I hear you have some complaints, but I'm fine. The only problem I have is having to hear your complaints, so would you please shut up?"

They delight in pushing an end goal where government and corporations have complete control over public discourse with punishments for dissent

What's this "end goal" stuff? That's capitalism, we've been there for over a century. TV has been the only relevant power in politics for lifetimes. Yes, of course capitalism is going to continue. Why is anyone pretending we're not living under capitalism? Is it some religious thing of "this can't be true capitalism" despite capitalists controlling and owning everything.

It was kind of sad when I realized that all those sitcoms, even The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, are Reagan-style propaganda. The Simpsons going from counter-culture, to capitalist cheer leading was a tragic day indeed.

[Mischief Maker]

I think what's interesting is the McCarthyism.

Yeah, no. The whole reason the Michael Tracy types were trotting out "McCarthyism" was because McCarthy was ostensibly looking for Russian agents, and the Trump/Russia scandal involved several members of his team going to jail for illegal dealings with Russia.

Aside from knee-jerk MSNBC "this chaos is exactly what Putin wants!" statements, there really isn't a Russia angle to this story. You're better off defaulting to the right's standard "Orwellian."

Although it's surprising to me no one on the right's ever demonized the left as "Huxleyan" since Brave New World is much closer to the dystopia neoliberal rainbow-capitalism is pointing us towards than 1984.

The Simpsons going from counter-culture, to capitalist cheer leading was a tragic day indeed.

Sigh.

[Durandal]

Obviously there's a subjective element to this, but my whole point is that a LOT of prominent people are treating one extreme as acceptable, and one arguably far lower impact extreme as literally the worst thing that has ever happened.

It's a surprise that it didn't end up being worse, what with people bringing firearms, zip ties, and pipe bombs. You had Lin Wood calling on Parler for Pence to be lined up in front of a firing squad, which forced even the free speech alternative that is Parler to ban the guy off their site. Could you imagine what would have happened if these guys got their hands on Pence in the Capitol? If he wasn't a Republican ghoul I would almost feel sorry for him, because Pence's going to have to live under strict security for who knows how long to avoid a midnight visit by peace-loving patriots.

They delight in pushing an end goal where government and corporations have complete control over public discourse with punishments for dissent - an essential component of a certain type of state.

Social media platforms naturally lean towards freedom of speech and moderating as little as possible, because more users/engagement means more profits off selling personal data and ad space and whatnot.

It is only when you got acts of sedition such as this or acts of terror that they're pressured by the feds to start regulating themselves, because social media platforms are scared of being held liable for terrorism. Otherwise their M.O. is to ignore increasingly radicalizing groups until it is no longer possible to ignore, which is also why Trump hasn't been banned up until this point. Hell, internal efforts to preemptively combat such radicalization/polarization are often shut down by management, because why would you cut your own profit margin? Idealism don't bring food on the table.

So rest assured, the market forces have your back. Democrats are already content with this status quo, and the Republicans are more interested in whining about being treated unfairly (even if it's the exact opposite that's happening), up until a situation like this comes along that publicly embarrasses them. Pundits and checkmarks on Twitter that want to remove 'hate speech' hold no relevant political power, and most likely won't ever see their dreams come true beyond getting some random schmuck fired from his job. But hey, they're convenient examples to point at if you want to scare people into buying your bridge.

There'll be a time in the future when antifa or tankies ascend from boogeyman status to being actually politically relevant, after which they end up doing some dumb shit that nets them the Trump treatment by Zucc and Dorsey. Neocons will then be gloating how the left is getting a taste of its own medicine, and how the far left-Big Tech is showing their political biases against... the far left? Whoops.

[BryanM]

Ah, I'm sure everyone's aware of the "Trump pressures Brad Raffensperger to 'find' some votes" thing. You might not have heard that the ACLU of Georgia found that 200,000 voters were incorrectly purged from the rolls, and when informed of this, Raffensperger hid under a desk in a bunker somewhere until the election was over.

"Democracy", indeed.

Although it's surprising to me no one on the right's ever demonized the left as "Huxleyan" since Brave New World is much closer to the dystopia neoliberal rainbow-capitalism is pointing us towards than 1984.

I actually heard it not extremely un-often back in the days I trolled in those waters. The more intellectual libertarian crowd that actually reads stuff tend to be aware of it, though (much like me and my acknowledgment of gasoline, the core of everything our society is built upon, being a finite resource) they're a small fringe you rarely get to hear from.

The Huxley vs Orwell comic did get posted a few times. As well as the one on supernormal stimulus (you know, stuff like the orange desert beetle avoiding mating with females of its species in order to pursue big beautiful orange beer bottles. It's very much relevant to anime! ... And elections, which are just as fake and cartoonish).

Sigh.

Yeah, Zombie Simpsons is a revolting abomination. Their "we hate Trump" song is typical useless partisan screeching.

There was a purity in them avoiding using actual people who existed, back in the day. Quimby isn't JFK or Ted or any specific Kennedy; he's all of them. And therefore bigger than any one of them alone, could be. A lot of fans were disappointed by Schwarzenegger being the president in the movie; they were already invested in and loved Wolfcastle. It was his turn to shine, damnit.

It also helps put emotional distance between the myth and the real person. Like how Columbus is a folk hero, the onion made Biden into a goofy uncle, and MLK is somehow far more than a man who ate food and shat like the rest of us do. There was even an episode about mythologizing the town founder.

Contempt of celebrity worship is the bare minimum necessary to see anything clearly, but Zombie Simpsons is nothing but celebrity worship these days.

[system11]

It doesn't matter what the reason was when you set on fire the businesses of innocent people (in one case, with someone inside). We're kind of past why you did it at that point. It doesn't matter that you burned down a Walmart, because people in the local area work in that Walmart. It doesn't matter when you try to burn down public property or throw molotevs / fireworks through windows rather than just forcing the door, walking in and making a nuisance of yourself.

If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle.

Wonder which of these guys knows what he's talking about?

Protesters in NYC could do 180 thousand dollars in damage a day, every single day, for a year, and still cause less financial loss to the people than what the NYPD does in police brutality settlements. Clutching pearls with gasps of "oh please think of the Walmarts!!" ignores that the state causes vastly more suffering just as a matter of course.

Tell that to the independant garage owner who lost everything. Has someone told him it's ok because it was for a good cause?

There are two issues here - firstly is what you consider to be acceptable protest. This is entirely subjective but I suspect for most people it includes not hurting the innocent, not vandalising things past that which is required to protest in a location. Some people agree with even less.

The second issue is that you should have the honesty to apply that equally. Many people of media and political influence are not doing that at the moment, they have turned a blind eye to or explained away things in the past which they now condemn and compare to 9/11 or Hitler's Germany.

These people are full of shit and I'm tired of them.

[orange808]

@BryanM
The human element cannot be completely removed. The margins of a national election shouldn't come down to a hundred votes. It didn't work out.

The difference is: people like me were adults about it. I got over it and I understood why Gore conceded. The real solution was/is getting more votes.

I think Hillary's 2016 debate shenanigans and the 2020 Democrat primary clown car (and amazing convenient new standards for important primary winners), were far more shady--and they subverted the will of the people much more.

But, I'm wasting my time bitching about that and I don't want to listen to Gajinpunch woof more centrist bullshit.

[orange808]

Right wing discussion of RICO is cute. lmao

It shows the same limited understanding that people displayed when they entered the capital unmasked with networked computers and allowed themselves to be photographed.

These people have no idea what they're talking about.

Want to talk RICO? Pardons would represent a de facto payment to people that broke into the capital building. It's not illegal to pardon them. It's not illegal to pass legal tender. It is illegal to pay them to create a problem that wouldn't otherwise exist and demand the presidency to stop the (no pun intended) "mob problem".

That's potential racketeering. That's RICO. That's Donald Trump.

Free speech debates regarding social media bans are another issue. That's got nothing to do with RICO.

Free speech and social media begs the question: when does a media platform become large enough to become a standard and ubiquitous form of communication--and (therefore) a protected method of exercising free speech? Obviously, social media is hosted and funded by private companies; that makes the issues thorny and difficult to unravel. I have no idea how it works if the servers are outside the nation. Of course, if you are inciting a riot, it won't matter because that's not protected speech. It's got nothing to do with RICO, though.

[Mischief Maker]

Thoughts and Prayers.

[ED-057]

Unlike the Capitol situation, the BLM riots ignited spontaneously and without organization (people weren't selling merch about the Big Day of The Happening, for one). Large groups of people saw the news of George Floyd, collectively went "fuck it", and spontaneously started rioting in the streets.

This is quite the paradoxical situation you have attempted to paint. First of all, BLM is an organization, and it's one that is backed by wealthy donors and large corporations: Hyundai, Nike, Airbnb, Walmart, Target, Sony, etc. the list goes on, all stated publicly that they were giving cash to BLM. How can it be spontaneous and unorganized when you just called it the BLM riot?

The next question is what news did those people get and how did they get it? Information about George Floyd was selectively disseminated by the corporate media and via Big Tech platforms. Police body cam footage was not released for months. The coroner's report was not yet available. No official investigations had been carried out. But Big Tech, the MSM, BLM, and whoever else released a cell phone video and various commentary which set off the riots, leading to over $2 billion in damage and a number of homicides. Are they responsible for that? Because Big Tech is telling us that the end justifies the means when it comes to censoring communications for the sake of public safety, and that they believe it is their job to do this. Looks like they didn't do their job. Either that or they're full of shit.

Even if you were to dispense justice accordingly, as more than several rioters most likely deserve, how do you even go about doing that from a logistical standpoint?

Police were arresting rioters, and the rioters were then bailed out with money from the National Lawyers Guild and other organized third parties. Then public officials of a certain political persuasion declined to bring charges against said rioters, and also told the feds to butt out. Again, the opposite of what people are calling for now.

If your intent is keeping the peace, forgoing to look at the conditions that caused a lashing out like this in favor of "Throwing the Bad Guys in Jail. Mission Accomplished" like a third-rate comic book superhero is shooting yourself in the foot in the long-term.

Does that apply to the most recent event which everyone is freaking out about or is it yet another double standard?

the Trump/Russia scandal involved several members of his team going to jail for illegal dealings with Russia.

Zero members of his team went to jail for "illegal dealings with Russia" but Nancy is pleased that you said it anyway.

But forget about BLM for a second. Just compare what the MSM mannequins (and various European officials who suddenly can't mind their own business) are saying about the capitol riot with what they have said about every bit of neolib-sponsored unrest in every other country. Hong Kong, Ukraine, Belarus, Bolivia, Venezuela. Isn't it fascinating how one thing can be a Glorious People's Uprising for Demooooooocracy, and then the same thing can also be 9/11 and Pearl Harbor put together? Or if it is the yellow vests then it simply doesn't exist.

This ain't called the United States of Hypocrisy for nothing.

[FinalBaton]

^^^^^^^^^^
@ED thank you, it's good to read both sides of the coin. That's why I like the diversity of opinions on here.

BLM is most definitely funded and organized, as is Antifa.

Now, is it ethical to fund the ''cause'' of BLM? that's another debate