Best/cleanest way to get RGB out of an NTSC GameCube?

[andykara2003]

I’d like to get RGB (480i) out of my NTSC cube that is just as good quality as RGB from a PAL cube. I already have a modded Japanese D-terminal cable that outputs RGBHV via D-sub 15 & have been told I can use a sync combiner to get RGB.

The Behar bros do the Kenzie which will do it and I really like the quality of their stuff. Or is there a cheaper or more direct way?

[Fudoh]

You don't need a sync combiner. You can use composite video or luma from the analogue output as your sync signal.

Back in the days when the D-terminal cables were available new and (rather) cheap, they were available modded for 31khz VGA and for 15khz RGB. The 15khz Scart version simply used the RGB lines from the D-Terminal cable plus sync from the analogue output (which is a no brainer, since you need to connect an analogue cable for audio anyway).

[andykara2003]

You don't need a sync combiner. You can use composite video or luma from the analogue output as your sync signal.

Thanks as always Fudoh. Is there a plug and play way to do this without taking apart my D-terminal cable or having to make up a custom unit?

[Fudoh]

what's the input on your display ? BNC ? Scart ?

If your D-terminal cable already has a HD15 header, you just need a breakout cable, so you get RGB on separate cables. For Scart then you could use an adapter like this:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... L._AC_.jpg

RGB from the D-terminal cable into the three RCA plugs and composite video into the fourth one.

If you just want to connect to a BNC RGB input, it's even easier. Just get a VGA to BNC breakout cable (regular BNC monitor cable) plus a single RCA to BNC adapter for the sync/video plug.

[andykara2003]

If your D-terminal cable already has a HD15 header, you just need a breakout cable, so you get RGB on separate cables.

Brilliant, I’d have never thought of that! I’m using scart, yes. I’m trying to track one of those adapters down on eBay but no luck so far - I’ll keep looking. And the HD-15 to RCAs are readily available in cable or adapter form.

The question I have is: wouldn’t the Behar bros’ Kenzei box (sync combiner - https://www.beharbros.com/kenzei) potentially give better image quality? Im wondering this because using the other method, I’d have to use multiple 3rd party cables/adapters that I couldn’t guarantee the quality/shielding of, whereas Behar bros make very good units & I could plug my existing modded cable directly into their box & only need a quality scart cable out which I have?

I guess it’s probable that the quality difference, if any, would be quite small, but I’m a bit OCD about getting the best image possible.

[strayan]

Behar bros make very good units

They do? https://twitter.com/smokemonstertwi/sta ... 38752?s=21

I use Tim Worthington’s sync combiner (not with a modified GC component cable so YMMV) https://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=2 ... how_detail Its even got the trigger on pin 16 to put your TV in RGB mode and protection from sync signals >15 KHz.

Will 480i work with a modified GameCube cable? This seems to indicate ‘no’ https://www.avsforum.com/threads/gamecu ... st-8411318 I don’t see why it wouldn’t though.

[andykara2003]

They do? https://twitter.com/smokemonstertwi/sta ... 38752?s=21

Oh wow, that’s a shame. From reviews I expected their stuff to always be good but you live & learn.

I use Tim Worthington’s sync combiner

Thanks, that’s perfect - I trust Tim’s stuff & this looks like a smart little unit and no cabling - perfect.

Will 480i work with a modified GameCube cable?

I was wondering about this. I use the cable to connect to my NEC XV29 and I do get an image on the monitor if I output 480i. I guess that means it should work with Tim’s unit? I’m no expert so that makes me a little nervous about buying it & getting no signal..

[strayan]

I was wondering about this. I use the cable to connect to my NEC XV29 and I do get an image on the monitor if I output 480i. I guess that means it should work with Tim’s unit? I’m no expert so that makes me a little nervous about buying it & getting no signal..

I expect it would work then. Tim Worthington posts on these forums so I’m sure he could confirm if you PM’d.

[Unseen]

Will 480i work with a modified GameCube cable?

Yes

[strayan]

I’m trying to track one of those adapters down on eBay but no luck so far - I’ll keep looking.

This should not be hard to find e.g. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-to-RG ... SwOyNfA2Iw

[Taiyaki]

To be honest I don't really see much point in getting RGB out of an NTSC Gamecube or Wii, the Component cable released in Japan is of very high quality and should give roughly 99% of the picture you'd get out of RGB. If the reason is to match the H positioning of your other consoles that use RGB then it's also unnecessary as the GC (and Wii as well) have in system settings to adjust the geometrical positioning. I guess the one reason perhaps is if the GC Component cable is still as overpriced as it was last I checked.

[maxtherabbit]

To be honest I don't really see much point in getting RGB out of an NTSC Gamecube or Wii, the Component cable released in Japan is of very high quality and should give roughly 99% of the picture you'd get out of RGB. If the reason is to match the H positioning of your other consoles that use RGB then it's also unnecessary as the GC (and Wii as well) have in system settings to adjust the geometrical positioning. I guess the one reason perhaps is if the GC Component cable is still as overpriced as it was last I checked.

The mod to switch the official cable to RGB mode is trivial. Some people don't have YPbPr inputs on their monitor...

[andykara2003]

I expect it would work then

Yes

Cheers, yes I checked with the modder as well & it's fine with 480i - although apparently some games default to 480p when the cable's plunged in - not sure which ones, I'll look into it.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-to-RG ... SwOyNfA2Iw

Nice one - I found them on Amazon.de as well, but they have mixed reviews with the consensus being they're poor quality, which puts me off that route.

To be honest I don't really see much point in getting RGB out of an NTSC Gamecube

Our consumer sets in the UK don't have component inputs & the RGB route is much better than the component/transcoder route for image quality. The reason I'm going this route is that although it's heresy on the retro scene, I think I'm starting to prefer 480i for GC games on my BVM to 480p on my NEC XV29. The NEC's great, but I find the 480p image too pixelated & I think I'd feel the same about the prog scan BVM/PVM route as well. In my memory, the Gamecube looked super smooth. That's because the interlacing masks the jaggies/pixelation. Apart from the interlacing itself, the downside is that the image is softer - but the BVM is so sharp it mostly negates that.

[strayan]

To be honest I don't really see much point in getting RGB out of an NTSC Gamecube or Wii, the Component cable released in Japan is of very high quality and should give roughly 99% of the picture you'd get out of RGB. If the reason is to match the H positioning of your other consoles that use RGB then it's also unnecessary as the GC (and Wii as well) have in system settings to adjust the geometrical positioning. I guess the one reason perhaps is if the GC Component cable is still as overpriced as it was last I checked.

The mod to switch the official cable to RGB mode is trivial. Some people don't have YPbPr inputs on their monitor...

There are other reasons too e.g.

Component signals look terrible on more than one of my TVs and I’m sure it’s also the case on many other TVs. The TV seems to apply some kind of image enhancement and overscan which you can’t disable. RGB signals don’t suffer the same fate though so I transcode all component signals to RGB before they reach the TV now.

[Guspaz]

If you just want 240p/480i from a Gamecube, just using a cheap analog RGB SCART cable on a PAL cube (even for NTSC games) is way cheaper and easier (or for component, an HD Retrovision cable is cheaper than the alternatives). There's not much of a quality difference to using the digital cable to output 480i.

[andykara2003]

If you just want 240p/480i from a Gamecube, just using a cheap analog RGB SCART cable on a PAL cube (even for NTSC games) is way cheaper and easier.

Ahh OK cheers. But wouldn’t you have to either load up Swiss every time or mod the PAL cube to play NTSC games?

[Guspaz]

No, the cheapest/easiest solution there is to just use Datel FreeLoader, which goes for £14.99. Basically you just boot the cube with the FreeLoader disc and then swap to the retail disc. Or, if FreeLoader is out of stock or expensive, the SD Media Launcher regularly restocks, costs £5 more, and includes Action Replay, which has FreeLoader built-in, as well as a bunch of other options, like loading homebrew from an SD card.

A XenoGC is even cheaper and makes loading NTSC/PAL discs seamless, but they're very hard to install.

[andykara2003]

No, the cheapest/easiest solution there is to just use Datel FreeLoader, which goes for £14.99.

Thanks for the info :)

I did actually buy Tim’s VGA to Scart converter today for my NTSC console & I also have a PAL cube with with official RGB cable. It’ll be interesting to see if one solution gives a better image than the other when comparing a PAL game with the same NTSC game

I have more NTSC games than PAL so it makes sense to go the NTSC route. I have Swiss for the NTSC console & I’d like to try the deflicker disable feature to make the image sharper still. Although in that case the interlacing might be too distracting & the BVM with deflicker filter might be the sweet spot as the BVM gives quite a sharp image anyway.

[Guspaz]

Whichever you choose, if you go the software route, just keep in mind that you need to match the Datel disc to the region: you can't buy the NTSC FreeLoader or Action Replay or SD Media Launcher and put it on a PAL console, and vice versa. Beyond that it doesn't matter since you're able to load anything, it's just the initial physical disc has to match the region.

[strygo]

Another option is to go with the GCHD MK-II. In addition to HDMI output, it also supports RGBS using a PAL Wii cable.

[andykara2003]

Another option is to go with the GCHD MK-II.

Good point.

[fernan1234]

The reason I'm going this route is that although it's heresy on the retro scene, I think I'm starting to prefer 480i for GC games on my BVM to 480p on my NEC XV29. The NEC's great, but I find the 480p image too pixelated & I think I'd feel the same about the prog scan BVM/PVM route as well. In my memory, the Gamecube looked super smooth. That's because the interlacing masks the jaggies/pixelation. Apart from the interlacing itself, the downside is that the image is softer - but the BVM is so sharp it mostly negates that.

Amen to that! I've held to this conclusion also for the past three or so years and always feel glad when I hear from a kindred soul. I say this goes for all of the SD/ED-capable systems (PS2, Wii, Xbox, and yes, even Dreamcast). It's too bad that indeed the general opinion assumes that 480p is strictly better for these. That is obviously the case on flat panels, and maybe on particular multiformat PVM models like the L5 which does flicker a lot with 480i, but older BVMs and the late multiformat BVMs don't have this problem with SD interlaced pictures.

As to the original topic question, I recently realized that a GBS Control in passthrough mode can be used to transcode 15khz YPbPr to RGB, so that's also another possible route. I haven't tested this myself, but I'd imagine that the conversion is very good, hopefully with little to no image degradation. I plan to use it soon for my modded 360 with a component cable set to TV mode for original Xbox games, as it's the only system I have that outputs YPbPr (for Wii/GC I have a Wiidual for GCVideo).

[andykara2003]

Amen to that! I've held to this conclusion also for the past three or so years and always feel glad when I hear from a kindred soul.

Nice one, so good to hear someone agrees :). I’ve had a couple of gamers come round who haven’t played GC since it was current who’ve been puzzled & off-put by the 480p visuals as well. Another example is the 1-chip SNES. I have one & just don’t like the image - the SNES used to look smoother to me & so I just use a 2-chip. Never been a fan of the super pixellated/heavily scanlined look so many people love today. I totally respect everyone’s preferences but that’s not the look games had back then & the look I have nostalgia for.