Neo Geo MVS bootleg ID help

[bobrocks95]

So I ordered two MVS games from the same ebay seller and one is an obvious bootleg that's going back, but I also got a Zupapa cartridge that I am fairly certain is legit, but thought I'd get a second opinion on since I'm already returning one game.

https://imgur.com/a/oj7I9iG

Reasons to question its legitimacy:

- Obviously the label is laughably fake
- I only have one other cartridge with a matte finish out of about 30 (Metal Slug 4- which indicates that maybe just later games started using these shells?)
- Of course the main point of contention is the windowed EEPROMs in spots M1 and S1. I see one mention of this not necessarily being a red flag on neo-geo.com, but I haven't yet seen any other carts where this is the case myself.
I also find it odd that each one is using a chip from a different manufacturer...
- And of course to reiterate I already got one bootleg from this seller

Thanks for the advice!

[Ruprit]

Whenever someone asks if their cart is legit, I'll point them to the MVS-Scans database. Only this is the first time where I have seen a cart that looks legit but has no reference photo for both pcbs.

The top board is definitely legit. I think the bottom board is too, it just doesn't match the Zuppa reference photos. The pcb itself is legit though, you can find it used for Zed Blade and a number of other games. Maybe it was a conversion, official or otherwise.

[bobrocks95]

Thanks Ruprit, I had checked MVS Scans and saw things didn't quite match up, but I didn't know to pay attention to the type of boards that were used.

Interestingly I have a 256 bottom board and every source I'm looking at (here, here, here, and here) lists Zupapa as having an FIO bottom board......

There's also the NEO-CMC chip that encrypts FIO boards- could that imply that M1 and S1 were unencrypted and used on a different type of board than they were supposed to be on?

[bobrocks95]

I did some more research and the board is using Macronix ROM chips manufactured in 2003 and 2004- the Neo Geo dev wiki says SNK never used Macronix chips, and that's awfully late for an MVS title, I doubt they were still pumping out Zupapa boards the year the system hit end of life on all software...

You've also got a ~1995 BK1 top board with a PCM chip made in January 1995, and a ~1995 bottom board as well with '95 dates for the NEO-ZMC and NEO-273. It's always possible old stock was lying around, but scans I'm seeing show all 2001 chips, so it looks much more likely that it was a 1995 release converted to Zupapa.

The only wrench in the works is that I don't know how you get a MASK ROM made with sprite data for an old MVS game, and I don't know how it was done without a FIO board unless the ROMs were decrypted (I do see an old Kawaks command line option to unencrypt the Zupapa graphics data)...

[Ruprit]

This is all way beyond my knowledge base but I've found both of your followups very insightful. That's certainly the most convincing fake I've seen, if that's the case. If you need a second opinion before hitting the seller up, the arcade-projects forum might be able to provide some insight.

[egg_sanwich]

That thing is a complete bootleg. The only thing legit are the pcbs, but they were likely sacrificed from another legit cart.

Reasons:
-label and case obviously fake
-SNK NEVER used MX roms
-windowed EPROMs not from factory repairs and that don’t match Mvs scans
-All mask roms should display the game’s ngh number plus the roms location on the pcb. I.E. for zupapa you would see 070-V1 in V1 position, 070-P1 in P1 position etc.

100% bootleg.

[bobrocks95]

That thing is a complete bootleg. The only thing legit are the pcbs, but they were likely sacrificed from another legit cart.

Reasons:
-label and case obviously fake
-SNK NEVER used MX roms
-windowed EPROMs not from factory repairs and that don’t match Mvs scans
-All mask roms should display the game’s ngh number plus the roms location on the pcb. I.E. for zupapa you would see 070-V1 in V1 position, 070-P1 in P1 position etc.

100% bootleg.

Yeah, debating about whether or not to send it back now, it was about 1/3 the price of an original copy and all things considered is a well made boot (had me fooled at least until I learned more).

I'm also still curious about how it's made though. I guess the ROM chips are EEPROMs which can be electrically written to rather than windowed EPROMs using UV light?

-All mask roms should display the game’s ngh number plus the roms location on the pcb. I.E. for zupapa you would see 070-V1 in V1 position, 070-P1 in P1 position etc.

That point worries me though and makes me want to open the rest of my games because I feel like I remember seeing some chips with plenty more markings than that...

[egg_sanwich]

A bootleg is a bootleg, it's not worth much. You could just get a 161 banana cart to play Zupapa plus a bunch of other games.

Re: other mask roms with info printed on it, a lot of original mask roms will have other info on them as well (like brand name of chip "Toshiba", etc.), but all will have the ngh number and chip location on them.

Those chips on your cart are likely one time programmable rom chips. They are less common than windowed eproms, but they are out there.

[bobrocks95]

A bootleg is a bootleg, it's not worth much. You could just get a 161 banana cart to play Zupapa plus a bunch of other games.

Re: other mask roms with info printed on it, a lot of original mask roms will have other info on them as well (like brand name of chip "Toshiba", etc.), but all will have the ngh number and chip location on them.

Those chips on your cart are likely one time programmable rom chips. They are less common than windowed eproms, but they are out there.

Good to know, thank you! All my other games check out, though Blazing Star is in a Super Sidekicks 2 case swap for whatever reason. Most chips could be verified through the slats in the shell thankfully.

And well even bootlegs or "conversions" as they're more nicely called sometimes sell for a lot these days for desirable titles. I'd rather have something with proper 5V chips on it than overvolting a few giant boards of 3.3V flash in a 161-in-1.

But yeah for Zupapa I could probably do better.