New Super Mario Bros. DS out on May 7th!

[professor ganson]

Saw an ad on tv today. Looked pretty nice, really. I still have several old Mario games I haven't finished, so picking this up is not a high priority for me.

[Vexorg]

I picked this up today, and I've had a bit of time to play it now. Here's a few initial impressions:

-If you've ever played a Mario game, you have a good idea what to expect. This one draws far more heavily from the SMB 1 and 3 than it does Super Mario World. One of the nice things about this is that they stuck to a 2-button control scheme. One button jumps, the other dashes/shoots fire, and that's it. The default setting for this is a bit annoying (it uses both A and B for jump and X and Y for dash,) but this can be changed easily to more familiar settings. The triggers aren't used at all (as far as I know) which is a good thing since they are a bit of a pain to use on the DS (hopefully the Lite helps with this.) The gameplay mechanics are just what you'd expect if you've played any of the previous games, with some additions.

The change in graphical style between this and the previous games actually becomes a lot less pronounced than you might expect once you actually see the game running on a DS. The fact that they dbuilt the characters primarily out of flat-shaded (as opposed to textured) polygons makes the characters look quite nice at the small scale used on the DS screen. The animations also look quite nice, and look quite a bit more fluid than what you would be able to do using sprites. I know there are people here who will probably disagree with me on this, but I think the use of 3D characters actually is beneficial here.

I've played through the second world now, and it looks like beating the game isn't going to be any major challenge (1-ups are a dime a dozen) There are some tricky parts in individual levels though, and you'll probably use up a few of those lives along the way. There are also some areas in some levels that I haven't been able to find a way to get to yet. The large coins you collect (three in each level) are used to unlock mushroom huts which can give you one-time powerups or extra lives, although occasionally you can unlock alternate paths and extra levels with them. For the most part, this doesn't seem like sufficient incentive to go back and try to get the ones you missed. The whole system doesn't seem to be quite as well thought out as it should have been. Something like what Kirby Canvas Curse had where content can be unlocked using the coins would have been nice.

All in all it's a fun game, and defintely worthy to stand with the other Super Mario games, although I don't think I'd call it the definitive Super Mario game. The big question I have is why it took sixteen years for it to show up...

[sethsez]

I've played through the second world now, and it looks like beating the game isn't going to be any major challenge (1-ups are a dime a dozen)

It does get harder. Not Lost Levels hard, but about on the level of Mario 3.

The large coins you collect (three in each level) are used to unlock mushroom huts which can give you one-time powerups or extra lives, although occasionally you can unlock alternate paths and extra levels with them. For the most part, this doesn't seem like sufficient incentive to go back and try to get the ones you missed. The whole system doesn't seem to be quite as well thought out as it should have been. Something like what Kirby Canvas Curse had where content can be unlocked using the coins would have been nice.

Well, they can be used to buy other things... but yeah, they're mostly used to buy access to extra levels or mushroom houses. Personally this suits me just fine, since the fun comes from getting the coins, not spending them. It's very satisfying.

Anyway, I'd say this is a sequel to Super Mario Bros. 3, almost ignoring everything that came after. I'm very happy with this, and although it's not the best Mario game ever, it certainly holds its own and is worth buying.

Also, some enemies will dance to the music (goombas hop, koopas will turn to the screen for a split second, cheep cheeps spin), and it's really cute. Not cutesy like so many recent Nintendo games, just cute.

[Vexorg]

Also, some enemies will dance to the music (goombas hop, koopas will turn to the screen for a split second, cheep cheeps spin), and it's really cute. Not cutesy like so many recent Nintendo games, just cute.

I thought the Koopas were stopping for a split second just to make me run into them. I like watching the cheep-cheeps do synchronized spins in the water as they swim though (although they brought back Boss Bass. I always P-winged over those levels in SMB3 so I wouldn't have to deal with those...)

I think you're right about that. The game does feel like it doesn't have a lot of influence from the SNES games. The order of the levels looks to be following that of SMB3 too.

[Turrican]

good, but not great, says 1up:

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3150890

[Vexorg]

The 1up review was the topic of some debate in the comments over at Joystiq, since it seems to be an outlier. The gamerankings average is 92.7% right now (the highest one I've seen is a 9.5 from IGN.) Either way, I don't think a lot of people who would buy this are going to pay attention to reviews.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/16/metar ... o-bros-ds/

[Turrican]

Either way, I don't think a lot of people who would buy this are going to pay attention to reviews.

Yeah - which is a common problem with Nintendo games.

I mean, everyone's comment is "finally, an SMB game after so many years!" but that is just a testament to the series' long departure from the original and not related with the game's quality.

Don't get me wrong - I want this game, but I'm a little scared that it may be another "Gunstar S Heroes" kind of fanservice. You know the type: whoa, finally we get the sequel to legendary gunstar! > plays an hour > wow, pretty cool graphics, huh? > plays another hour, the game ends > yawn.

[Vexorg]

I happen to think that there's enough to differentiate NSMB from the previous games that it doesn't really feel all that much like more of the same.

[sethsez]

Either way, I don't think a lot of people who would buy this are going to pay attention to reviews.

Yeah - which is a common problem with Nintendo games.

I mean, everyone's comment is "finally, an SMB game after so many years!" but that is just a testament to the series' long departure from the original and not related with the game's quality.

Don't get me wrong - I want this game, but I'm a little scared that it may be another "Gunstar S Heroes" kind of fanservice. You know the type: whoa, finally we get the sequel to legendary gunstar! > plays an hour > wow, pretty cool graphics, huh? > plays another hour, the game ends > yawn.

Did you actually read 1up's review, though? It's absolutely the victim of nostalgia. Summed up, the review says "it's a great game, but not as good as Mario 3, so it's only okay."

Which is about as useless as "OMG NEW MARIO GAME"

The game has extremely tight level design, spot-on controls and perfect progression. No, it's not as good as Super Mario Bros 3, but it's a great platformer in its own right. 1up's review focuses on how it measures up the SMB3 and World rather than judging it on its own merits, and if you needed a review to tell you that this wouldn't be as good as Mario 3... well, you have one, I guess. Personally I don't think anybody reasonably expected this to top what is one of the greatest games ever made, so a review that confirms as much is still pretty useless in my eyes.

I will agree with him that the new powerups suck, though.

[jp]

New Super Mario Bros. is QUITE good. Is it as good as SMB3? No. Is it as good as SMW? Probably not. Is it the best 2D platformer in the past 5 or so years? More than likely.


Its a damn good game with very good level design, good controls, and some awesome boss fights. My complaints are as follows:


Complaint 1: The "new" power-ups. OK, the turtle shell is completely pointless and annoying to have since, if you start to run, you just go into the shell and slide off into oblivion. Sure, you can stop running, but its still annoying.

Big Mario and Tiny Mario were cute... until they were needed to get special coins. What? You mean I have to back track to level 1 to snag a tiny mushroom to get 2 coins in level 8?! Bah! At least put tiny mushrooms near the tiny pipes. But whatever. Big Mario... its neat... but its altogether pointless and can be filed under "Ways to get a ridiculous amount of 1UPs #3473946437896".

Complaint 2: Hiding 1/4th of the worlds. Nintendo, are you fucking retarded? If you want "hidden worlds" then make 2 bonus after the game. Don't hide two worlds in the middle of the game. I STILL haven't figured out how to get to them! And I've almost collected all of the main game coins! This annoys me like hell.

Complaint 3: Baby Bowser. Nintendo... Koopa Kids were cool. One of the reasons that SMB3 is so amazing is that the Koopa Kids made for really great boss fights. Baby Bowser was neat in Yoshi's Island since it took place when the SMB were kids. Now... why is Baby Bowser in this game? Does this not create a paradox? This makes no sense. JUST BRING IN THE KOOPA KIDS YOU LAZY FUCKS!


That said, it truly is an amazing game. I've finished it, and now I'm picking apart the secrets. It does feel like Super Princess Peach had a heavy influence on it... but other than that, its the classic return to Mario's roots that fans have been clamouring for for a decade now. Good stuff.


Oh, and the game IS challenging. World 8 was very hard at parts. And if you're going after the star coins... then there is definitely some naaassty shit in world 8 (main reason I HATE THE TINY MUSHROOM!).

I just wish I could get to worlds 4 or 6...

[sethsez]

Complaint 2: Hiding 1/4th of the worlds. Nintendo, are you fucking retarded? If you want "hidden worlds" then make 2 bonus after the game. Don't hide two worlds in the middle of the game. I STILL haven't figured out how to get to them! And I've almost collected all of the main game coins! This annoys me like hell.

Mini Mario during the castle boss fights. You'll notice that after you beat a boss and run through the end segment there's a little path underneath... if you're Mini Mario you'll fall in and go to the alternate world. Do this in world 2 and world 5 (both castles have mini mushrooms available, so you don't have to run around looking for them elsewhere).

Complaint 3: Baby Bowser. Nintendo... Koopa Kids were cool. One of the reasons that SMB3 is so amazing is that the Koopa Kids made for really great boss fights. Baby Bowser was neat in Yoshi's Island since it took place when the SMB were kids. Now... why is Baby Bowser in this game? Does this not create a paradox? This makes no sense. JUST BRING IN THE KOOPA KIDS YOU LAZY FUCKS!

It's not Baby Bowser, it's Bowser Jr from Sunshine.

And I think this is the best Mario game since Super Mario 64, and sits comfortably next to the classics even if it never beats them. I know I'd rather play it than Super Mario World, but that has more to due with my dislike of SMW than anything.

[jp]

Complaint 2: Hiding 1/4th of the worlds. Nintendo, are you fucking retarded? If you want "hidden worlds" then make 2 bonus after the game. Don't hide two worlds in the middle of the game. I STILL haven't figured out how to get to them! And I've almost collected all of the main game coins! This annoys me like hell.

Mini Mario during the castle boss fights. You'll notice that after you beat a boss and run through the end segment there's a little path underneath... if you're Mini Mario you'll fall in and go to the alternate world.

Complaint 3: Baby Bowser. Nintendo... Koopa Kids were cool. One of the reasons that SMB3 is so amazing is that the Koopa Kids made for really great boss fights. Baby Bowser was neat in Yoshi's Island since it took place when the SMB were kids. Now... why is Baby Bowser in this game? Does this not create a paradox? This makes no sense. JUST BRING IN THE KOOPA KIDS YOU LAZY FUCKS!

It's not Baby Bowser, it's Bowser Jr from Sunshine.

Wow... my hatred for Mini Mario has now increased 10 fold!


Didn't recall that about Sunshine. Still, the Koopa Kids were infinitely cooler.

[sethsez]

Wow... my hatred for Mini Mario has now increased 10 fold!

I edited my post, but both of those castles have mini mushrooms in them. You don't have to go to another level for one.

[jp]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the game, and I definitely feel its the best Mario game in forever!


There are just some small things that annoy me is all.

[sethsez]

I like mini Mario when the powerup is in the same level you need him for. Since that's the case in the castles it doesn't bother me at all.

It is annoying for some of the coins, though (but then, that was the case in a few Super Mario World levels as well).

[jp]

Yeah, I just unlocked the other two worlds (and played through World 4), the Mini Mario thing wasn't as much of a pain in the ass there (if anything it made the boss fights much more interesting).


I just hated the World 8 coins that required mini Mario. Especially the volcano level. Ugh.


Looking forward to seeing what happens when I get all the coins though. Hopefully something a bit more impressive than what you got in Super Princess Peach and Kirby's Canvas Curse when you get enough coins.

And yes, I know about the bottom screen wall-paper store...

[sethsez]

I don't think anything happens. They're just... there. I kind of prefer it that way.

[Turrican]

Did you actually read 1up's review, though? It's absolutely the victim of nostalgia. Summed up, the review says "it's a great game, but not as good as Mario 3, so it's only okay."

Which is about as useless as "OMG NEW MARIO GAME"

The game has extremely tight level design, spot-on controls and perfect progression. No, it's not as good as Super Mario Bros 3, but it's a great platformer in its own right. 1up's review focuses on how it measures up the SMB3 and World rather than judging it on its own merits, and if you needed a review to tell you that this wouldn't be as good as Mario 3... well, you have one, I guess. Personally I don't think anybody reasonably expected this to top what is one of the greatest games ever made, so a review that confirms as much is still pretty useless in my eyes.

I will agree with him that the new powerups suck, though.

Well, yeah I did read it. And I sense contradiction in your words - either he's being victim of nostalgia or the game doesn't live up to its ancestors, right? I don't doubt the game is good on its own...

[sethsez]

I sense contradiction in your words - either he's being victim of nostalgia or the game doesn't live up to its ancestors, right?

There's no contradiction. The game may not live up to its ancestors, but it is more than an 8/10 game. When I say he's a victim of nostalgia, I mean that he's using SMB3 and SMW as the standard this game has to beat, which is an insanely high bar to clear. Of course this isn't going to give him the warm fuzzies those games did, and I don't think it's reasonable to give a great game an "above average" score for failing to live up to one of the best games of all time.

I mean. Super Mario Bros 3 has appeared at the top of quite a few "best game ever" lists. Do you really think that's a reasonable standard? Should a game get a "good" score just because it didn't top that?

On its own, the game is fantastic. I'd say it's the best platformer to come out in quite a long time. It's extremely well designed, very charming, controls perfectly, etc. The only thing the game does wrong is failing to turn the gaming world upside down like SMB3 did. That does not make it "good, not great."

The game is an 8/10 in comparison to other Mario games. As a standalone game, it's at least a 9. And since 1up doesn't review games based on their series but on how good they are in general, I think the review is tainted by nostalgia and doesn't give credit where credit is due: it may not be Mario 3, but it's still fucking fantastic.

And if you think failing to measure up to Mario 3 means a game is "just good" then I shudder to imagine what you'd consider great.

[Turrican]

Now it's you who's engulfed in nostalgia - charts aside (for what they count) SMB3 was a great platform. But its goodness wasn't that earth-shattering, if not in terms of sale. On a pure conceptual basis, it just built over SMB. And all this is perfectly doable again.

It's not impossible to match that kind of standard - many would argue it has been done with Yoshi's Island. Of course, one cannot expect the same impact, because the genre is nowadays a relic of the past. But since I don't equate big sales with quality, that's not a problem with me.

Anyway, let's quit the discussion - I can't tell what makes an "8" or a "9", let alone according to 1up. I think the reviewer meant something a little more subtle than "omg SMB3 was better", but I guess the only proof of the pudding is the eating.

[Eps]

I have just got this game imported from the US, and I think it is absolutely fantastic. If you have a DS, you will not regret buying it, so long as you don't have any silly expectations. That's it.

[Blade]

Wow, jp, it's barely even out for the rest of us to try it and already you're complaining.

Figures I guess, since a lot of us old school gamers expect old school quality in a lot of ways.

I personally look at games such as this with a grain of salt:

1. It's a fun game, enjoy it, and don't be in such a hurry to beat it.

2. Just because one game doesn't feature your absolute FAVORITE characters doesn't make it a bad game. You have to judge games on their own merits.

That's the problem with a lot of gamers nowadays, they're in such a hurry to beat the latest game or whatever and don't savor it and take their time or anything. Games don't grow on trees you know.

[Alske]

I agree with most complaints leveled at this game and would also like to throw the floaty, imprecise, Super-Mario-1-but-worse control out there as one of the worst things about this game. After the phenominal control present in nearly every, single other mario game, NSMB's control is shockingly bad.

[sethsez]

That's the problem with a lot of gamers nowadays, they're in such a hurry to beat the latest game or whatever and don't savor it and take their time or anything. Games don't grow on trees you know.

Well, it's Super Mario Bros. These aren't long games.

Turrican, I do happen to think SMB3 is the pinnacle of platforming, with Yoshi's Island right behind (it only lacks the variety). This comes very close to both, and I have to agree with all the other reviews that say "not as good as Mario 3, but the best platformer in years and one of the best games on the DS." By that standard, it doesn't deserve an 8.

Alske, how long have you been playing? I found the controls floaty for a couple levels but now I find them extremely natural and comfortable. Mario goes where I want him to go every single time. The only time things feel floaty to me is when I use mini Mario, but that's on purpose.

[Alske]

That's the problem with a lot of gamers nowadays, they're in such a hurry to beat the latest game or whatever and don't savor it and take their time or anything. Games don't grow on trees you know.

Well, it's Super Mario Bros. These aren't long games.

Turrican, I do happen to think SMB3 is the pinnacle of platforming, with Yoshi's Island right behind (it only lacks the variety). This comes very close to both, and I have to agree with all the other reviews that say "not as good as Mario 3, but the best platformer in years and one of the best games on the DS." By that standard, it doesn't deserve an 8.

Alske, how long have you been playing? I found the controls floaty for a couple levels but now I find them extremely natural and comfortable. Mario goes where I want him to go every single time. The only time things feel floaty to me is when I use mini Mario, but that's on purpose.

I'm at the next to last world. Every time I die it's because captain grease-for-shoes won't do what I tell him to. Why didn't they call it Initial M or something?

This has to be one of the most frustrating experiences ever. The rest of the game seems good (not great), yet they somehow managed to screw up the controls.

[sethsez]

Huh. I find the controls immensely satisfying and natural. I wouldn't say they screwed up the controls, I'd say you aren't good with them. He's floaty, but in no way imprecise.

I wish there was a way to capture video because I'm having a blast trying to speedrun this sucker. There are all sorts of tricks that allow you to shave seconds off your time (much like the original games).

[Alske]

Huh. I find the controls immensely satisfying and natural. I wouldn't say they screwed up the controls, I'd say you aren't good with them. He's floaty, but in no way imprecise.

I wish there was a way to capture video because I'm having a blast trying to speedrun this sucker. There are all sorts of tricks that allow you to shave seconds off your time (much like the original games).

Perhaps, but I certainly don't have any trouble controlling any Mario game but this one and the first one. I certainly don't shy away from a good challenge, but I find this game to be nothing but frustration so far.

[sethsez]

Well I wouldn't say the first one controls badly, either. It seems you just have trouble with floaty physics. I'm the opposite... if my character can stop on a dime and has no inertia at all, I'm always overcompensating into a pit.

[FatCobra]

It's about time Mario went back to stomping Goombas and eating mushrooms. What are the sounds effects like? Does Mario make the traditional "BOING!" sound, or does he do annoying "Wah! Hoo!" type noises. It gets on my nerves when videogame characters announce every little thing they do. I kinda liked it better when hardware prevented characters from having voices.

[sethsez]

He says "that'sa so nice" at the end of every level, and Peach screams "help!" when Bowser Jr drags her to the next castle. That's pretty much it. Jumping, getting power ups, etc... all classic sounds.