NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
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NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Hi all,
after finally get my Baraduke pcb, and wrote a complete review (in french sorry),
and playing nights and nights on it (the more I play, more I love it !)
I found a sort of mystery in this game, and no web site can gave me an answer (non-japanese web):?
so it's time to launch an big investigation
i'll not sleep at night without knowing the answer.
i found 3 "sprites" on the background of the game (you can't interact with them ,tried to shoot ,standing in front of them, nothing). they show always on the same place.
let's call them "artefacts"
here is a "sprite rip" from mame:
-the 1st artefact is on floor 9 - it's a shattered helmet on a gun
-the 2nd artefact is on floor 21 - sort of extraterestrial skull with bones
-the 3rd artefact in on floor 33 - a totem ?
on this japanese page (google translation) you can see all the 3 artefacts in pictures
https://translate.google.fr/translate?s ... edit-text=
so what are they for ?
have they any utility "in-game" ? (i doubt it)
are these artefacts a link to an exterior movie ? or manga ? or book ?
something the programmers wanted to honour when they wrote the game back in 1984 ?
or do they refer other namco games ?
so please help me to find the answer, if anyone knows Namco or Baraduke "experts" in japan...
(i guess Yukio Takahashi (game design) and Yoshihiro Kishimoto programmer) knows teh truth )
thanks !
after finally get my Baraduke pcb, and wrote a complete review (in french sorry),
and playing nights and nights on it (the more I play, more I love it !)
I found a sort of mystery in this game, and no web site can gave me an answer (non-japanese web):?
so it's time to launch an big investigation
i'll not sleep at night without knowing the answer.
i found 3 "sprites" on the background of the game (you can't interact with them ,tried to shoot ,standing in front of them, nothing). they show always on the same place.
let's call them "artefacts"
here is a "sprite rip" from mame:
-the 1st artefact is on floor 9 - it's a shattered helmet on a gun
-the 2nd artefact is on floor 21 - sort of extraterestrial skull with bones
-the 3rd artefact in on floor 33 - a totem ?
on this japanese page (google translation) you can see all the 3 artefacts in pictures
https://translate.google.fr/translate?s ... edit-text=
so what are they for ?
have they any utility "in-game" ? (i doubt it)
are these artefacts a link to an exterior movie ? or manga ? or book ?
something the programmers wanted to honour when they wrote the game back in 1984 ?
or do they refer other namco games ?
so please help me to find the answer, if anyone knows Namco or Baraduke "experts" in japan...
(i guess Yukio Takahashi (game design) and Yoshihiro Kishimoto programmer) knows teh truth )
thanks !
Last edited by maldoror68 on Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
First one looks like it might be a grave marker of sorts. Very cool bit of pixel art either way.
光あふれる 未来もとめて, whoa~oh ♫
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE JUSTICE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [STAB & STOMP]
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
yup. maybe it's a mark who says "i'm a game programmer and i go this far with 1 coin" ?
it's surely a sort of grave
-------
there's a lead here : a book...explaining 20 namco games...but it's all in japanese and unavailable outside japan (arghh)
title :
Namco Game no Subete II
ナムコゲームのすべてII
SUPER SOFT MAGAZINE DELUXE Vol.5
pic:
maybe the explaination is inside....or not
i'm going back on google translate ,digging japanese web...
it's surely a sort of grave
-------
there's a lead here : a book...explaining 20 namco games...but it's all in japanese and unavailable outside japan (arghh)
title :
Namco Game no Subete II
ナムコゲームのすべてII
SUPER SOFT MAGAZINE DELUXE Vol.5
pic:
maybe the explaination is inside....or not
i'm going back on google translate ,digging japanese web...
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Obiwanshinobi
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Are they in the PSX port as well?
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off
The way out is cut off
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
don't know. i presume yes....
these kind of "port" is generaly an emulator packed with extras....
i don't think they were "loosing time" by reprogramming an old game to make a console port...
if somemone can try (namco collection vol 5) for ps1
there is even the x68000 port ( and the xbox360 port (namco museum virtual arcade [disc] )
still searching
edit : there is also a wii port in japan ?
you can see the "artefact n°1"helmet at 7:20 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXrjUhdOlk
and here is a pic of the "artefact n°2" in situation:
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/squ ... ke0069.png
these kind of "port" is generaly an emulator packed with extras....
i don't think they were "loosing time" by reprogramming an old game to make a console port...
if somemone can try (namco collection vol 5) for ps1
there is even the x68000 port ( and the xbox360 port (namco museum virtual arcade [disc] )
still searching
edit : there is also a wii port in japan ?
you can see the "artefact n°1"helmet at 7:20 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgXrjUhdOlk
and here is a pic of the "artefact n°2" in situation:
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/squ ... ke0069.png
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Probably inside references/jokes like the hidden panda in Strider.
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Obiwanshinobi
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
This kind of statement is usually hearsay.maldoror68 wrote:these kind of "port" is generaly an emulator packed with extras....
The rear gate is closed down
The way out is cut off
The way out is cut off
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Namco Museum has actual ports, nothing is emulated. So yes, everything was redrawn.maldoror68 wrote:don't know. i presume yes....
these kind of "port" is generaly an emulator packed with extras....
i don't think they were "loosing time" by reprogramming an old game to make a console port...
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Redrawn? That stuff uses the same art as the original arcade games, no?CIT wrote:Namco Museum has actual ports, nothing is emulated. So yes, everything was redrawn.maldoror68 wrote:don't know. i presume yes....
these kind of "port" is generaly an emulator packed with extras....
i don't think they were "loosing time" by reprogramming an old game to make a console port...
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Yeah, the graphics are the same. I mean "redrawn" in the sense that the game had to be rebuilt from the ground up for PS1, as opposed to simply running it off an emulator.
That's why Pacman enthusiasts for example don't consider the port perfect, because some details are different feom the arcade: http://pacman.wikia.com/wiki/Pac-Man_(game)
That's why Pacman enthusiasts for example don't consider the port perfect, because some details are different feom the arcade: http://pacman.wikia.com/wiki/Pac-Man_(game)
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Ah, OK, makes sense now.
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
if i find some time this week ,i'll try namco museum vol 5 on my ps1
we'll see if the 3 arteafcts are still 'in game"
we'll see if the 3 arteafcts are still 'in game"
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cave hermit
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
I thought I heard somewhere that the namco museum ports were recompiled from the arcade source codes, but I could be wrong.
Edit: I remember where I read that; the wikipedia article on Namco Museum.
Edit: I remember where I read that; the wikipedia article on Namco Museum.
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
check done : the 3 "artefacts" are at the same place in "namco museum volume 5"
the game is arcade perfect, plus they ad a "round select" on the psx version
all the rest is exactly the same (dip switchs ,test mode ,difficuklty settings ,patterns ,ennemies....)
i think (my own opinion) that namco museums contains tiny arcade emulators
---
*end of the ps1 digression*
----
that damn 3 cameos are probably internal developpers referrences... but what ? a movie ? an anime ?
i've checked SF movies and anime from 1980 to 1984 yesterday ,(even the macross anime and crusher joe) but nothing is matching...
the shattered helmet is not outland ,it's not alien (even space suit of the "victim"in the 1st episode is yellow) or maybe it's 2001 for the yellow space suit ?
that type of shatterred helmet ? maybe ?
it's clear (look at the green background of the 1st level or the flyer) that Alien (the 1st movie) has inspired the developpement team of the game
(and the heroin is a woman in fact)
but for the "skull" ? and the "totem" ?
the skull is huge (same size as the player)
could it be nausicaa skull , the movie was on screen in 1984 in japan... maybe
...to be continued
the game is arcade perfect, plus they ad a "round select" on the psx version
all the rest is exactly the same (dip switchs ,test mode ,difficuklty settings ,patterns ,ennemies....)
i think (my own opinion) that namco museums contains tiny arcade emulators
---
*end of the ps1 digression*
----
that damn 3 cameos are probably internal developpers referrences... but what ? a movie ? an anime ?
i've checked SF movies and anime from 1980 to 1984 yesterday ,(even the macross anime and crusher joe) but nothing is matching...
the shattered helmet is not outland ,it's not alien (even space suit of the "victim"in the 1st episode is yellow) or maybe it's 2001 for the yellow space suit ?
that type of shatterred helmet ? maybe ?
it's clear (look at the green background of the 1st level or the flyer) that Alien (the 1st movie) has inspired the developpement team of the game
(and the heroin is a woman in fact)
but for the "skull" ? and the "totem" ?
the skull is huge (same size as the player)
could it be nausicaa skull , the movie was on screen in 1984 in japan... maybe
...to be continued
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
i've got some news.
we gonna know the truth....this year.
stay tuned...
we gonna know the truth....this year.
stay tuned...
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Necrothreading this thread because it's friggin' awesome. One comes here searching "Baraduke" and these gems come out... If the internet disappears tomorrow, shmups.system11.org would be the biggest loss.
who knows if our enthusiast French fellow ever discovered the truth...
Surely there wasn't need of the background graphics to imagine Scott's "Alien" being an huge influence on this game. Alien -> Baraduke -> Metroid.
The Nausicaa reference though is a little less obvious, but I had the same hunch just fighting the first boss, very "Ohmu-like".
who knows if our enthusiast French fellow ever discovered the truth...
Surely there wasn't need of the background graphics to imagine Scott's "Alien" being an huge influence on this game. Alien -> Baraduke -> Metroid.
Oh, she's much more than simply an "heroin™". She's an "heroin disguised in a space suit so you can't fathom her gender till the end, lost in an alien setting of mazes, trying to befriend little alien spores which at the right moment come in her aid™"(and the heroin is a woman in fact)
The Nausicaa reference though is a little less obvious, but I had the same hunch just fighting the first boss, very "Ohmu-like".
I was under the impression that everything that nm5 lets you do is already in the dip switches of the board, so the stage select should work in mame also? Same as in Pac-Mania (also in nm5)?maldoror68 wrote:in "namco museum volume 5" the game is arcade perfect, plus they ad a "round select" on the psx version
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EmperorIng
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
I haven't checked, but some Namco arcade games from the 80s have 'hidden' round selects (or can be activated from dips as I recall). Famously, Tower of Druaga lets you continue from any floor your previous credit reached, if you hold button 1 while hitting the Start button.
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Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Just recognized it's an old post, but I'm interested in claims like this.
I guess what's most likely happened though, if the source code was involved, is that someone followed the original assembly source step by step, and recreated it in a high level language like C. Would be curious to know more, though.
Because I'm pretty sure all of these 80s arcade game were written in assembly languages. "Recompiling" them from that kind of code is basically the equivalent of emulation.cave hermit wrote:I thought I heard somewhere that the namco museum ports were recompiled from the arcade source codes, but I could be wrong.
I guess what's most likely happened though, if the source code was involved, is that someone followed the original assembly source step by step, and recreated it in a high level language like C. Would be curious to know more, though.
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
About ports, graphical fidelity and direct use of source code...
None of this must concern the Namco volumes on Playstation I guess, which for sure, even if ported, must have had much more than simple access to source code and assets (meaning often: supervision and approval by the original devs).
One would be tempted to think that graphic fidelity 1:1 was a thing of the 32bit era, but actually means to obtain it (barring faithful recreation by observation, that is) were in a little earlier. Two interesting examples:
Pete Andrew of Software Creations about Double Dragon genesis relevant quote:
"The project had boiled down to moments: the moment he figured out where artwork had been on the EPROMs."
Scott Marshall on Frogger Genesis relevant quote:
"I started off with an arcade emulator of Frogger downloaded from the Internet, with images of the original ROM data. [...] I did, however, locate the music and graphics data in the arcade image ROMs. The graphics were converted with a utility I wrote."
Although this Frogger is by no means an "early" example (released in 1998, long after the playstation Namco Museums, the first Digital Eclipse compilations and such), it is nonetheless interesting to see how the mindset was changing. The simultaneous SNES release was still following the old way to simply redraw everything from scratch (the "interpretation" approach).
However, once acquired the 1:1 graphic assets from the ROM, recreating the game was still a different matter. Quoting Marshall again: The game logic was controlled by a new program I wrote in 68000 assembly language. I was able to match the action by studying the video tapes and duplicating the positions, speeds, and sequences of all the sprites. Sometimes I was able to match motions of objects and rows by carefully timing them with a stop watch. Some functions were divined by studying the disassembled Z80 code from the arcade game.
At some point even external developers acquired the tech needed to transplant arcade graphics 1:1. What may be trivial for an in-house developed port (direct access to all assets and source code) was an herculean task in the early days of 8bit, which often meant steps like "playing the original game as much as possible in the local arcade", or "beg the softhouse to acquire a cabinet for study". In other words, Japanese coin-ops were "redrawn" by observation before "photography" (access to source code) was a thing.CIT wrote:Yeah, the graphics are the same. I mean "redrawn" in the sense that the game had to be rebuilt from the ground up for PS1, as opposed to simply running it off an emulator.
That's why Pacman enthusiasts for example don't consider the port perfect, because some details are different feom the arcade: http://pacman.wikia.com/wiki/Pac-Man_(game)
None of this must concern the Namco volumes on Playstation I guess, which for sure, even if ported, must have had much more than simple access to source code and assets (meaning often: supervision and approval by the original devs).
One would be tempted to think that graphic fidelity 1:1 was a thing of the 32bit era, but actually means to obtain it (barring faithful recreation by observation, that is) were in a little earlier. Two interesting examples:
Pete Andrew of Software Creations about Double Dragon genesis relevant quote:
"The project had boiled down to moments: the moment he figured out where artwork had been on the EPROMs."
Scott Marshall on Frogger Genesis relevant quote:
"I started off with an arcade emulator of Frogger downloaded from the Internet, with images of the original ROM data. [...] I did, however, locate the music and graphics data in the arcade image ROMs. The graphics were converted with a utility I wrote."
Although this Frogger is by no means an "early" example (released in 1998, long after the playstation Namco Museums, the first Digital Eclipse compilations and such), it is nonetheless interesting to see how the mindset was changing. The simultaneous SNES release was still following the old way to simply redraw everything from scratch (the "interpretation" approach).
However, once acquired the 1:1 graphic assets from the ROM, recreating the game was still a different matter. Quoting Marshall again: The game logic was controlled by a new program I wrote in 68000 assembly language. I was able to match the action by studying the video tapes and duplicating the positions, speeds, and sequences of all the sprites. Sometimes I was able to match motions of objects and rows by carefully timing them with a stop watch. Some functions were divined by studying the disassembled Z80 code from the arcade game.
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
Isn't that the well kept secret of many "astounding" X68000 "ports"?Sumez wrote:I'm pretty sure all of these 80s arcade game were written in assembly languages. "Recompiling" them from that kind of code is basically the equivalent of emulation.
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
X68000 has the advantage that it, as the name implies, is based on a 68k CPU which was very common in especially late 80s arcade games, allowing it to straight up reuse a lot of the actual assembly code used for game logic.
PS1 doesn't have that luxury.
PS1 doesn't have that luxury.
Re: NAMCO experts needed - Baraduke Mystery
While Frogger for the MD uses some assets from the arcade, the patterns after stage 5 were written from scratch and very different from the arcade. Unlike the arcade, the game never gets to a point where two snakes are on screen at once. Hit detection seems to be off on the snakes tail. It's still possible to ride it, but the area to ride the snake seems to be smaller than with the AC version.