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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:21 pm 


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Soukyugurentai(MAME) - bios mp17951a
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Terra Diver(MAME) - bios mp17952a
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These are both set to default and there is clearly different difficulty offset between the two versions/regions. Terra Diver being the easier of the two. I doubt this is a huge concern, especially emulation wise, since most players are likely to be using Soukyugurentai but it's worth noting this difference for any future score submissions.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:23 am 


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Limbrooke sent me this great info in a PM. Rather than reformulate his work, I'm just going to copy this verbatim here. The ST board needs more love anyway.

Limbrooke wrote:
Rather than make a post in the ST about this, I figured it was worthwhile to send the current maintainer of the high-score board information I discovered while investigating Soukyugurentai's home versions.

Most of the attention is on the PS1 iteration, which doesn't see much action sadly, but it is still worth noting.

First of all, default PS1 game is slightly different from default Saturn game. The Saturn game, default difficulty aside, is very close to Soukyugurentai ST-V.

The default PS1 mode is Special mode and has slight differences in terms of scoring and difficulty. First and foremost it's easier, the enemies aren't as agressive/bullets aren't has fast+dense. The scoring is higher as I've seen, certain enemies on full web lock bonus award more points. Next, the default extend settings on PS1 are far less: First 2mil, then every 3mil. Quite the cry from the normal: First 3mil, then every 6mil. Thankfully, this can be changed for both Special and Arcade modes.

As for the slow-down in the PS1 game, this mostly occurs during lock-on phase and not much elsewhere, and as a result in my opinion I feel it doesn't effect the game too much in terms of challenge. When set-up at Level 5 on correct extends, PS1 Arcade mode feels pretty much the same as the Saturn game. Also, the new ship, Yellow as it is denoted, is not accessible in Arcade mode on PS1, making for good comparison. As such, Yellow is only available on Special mode and makes for easy note of which version is used.

Another way to tell Special apart from Arcade is the fact Special is accompanied by cut-scenes and a female narrator before and after each stage.

Having established this, it's really too bad many if not most people opt for Special on PS1 and or the Saturn game altogether.

Here are some images to go with these comments

PlayStation
ImageImageImageImageImageImage

Saturn
Image
The menus between original & Otokuyo versions are unchanged.
I did however just discover an interesting bonus menu while goofing around trying to test the extend range.

ImageImage
By going left or right on the d-pad either on the main menu or within this new menu chooses OFF or ON. Flipping to ON reveals more.
Image
In this first revealed option, there are 3 choices, the next 2 I'll show here:
ImageImage
My Japanese/Kanji isn't at the level to interpret this, perhaps someone else can? Anyway, although I didn't show it, the 7th ? ? ? option is revealed to be the sound-test for Mahou Daisakusen, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen, and Battle Garegga. As mentioned in the past, people were able to play these OSTs normally in a CD player, which makes the most sense, but now there is more explanation to why these OSTs were included. Apparently as a bonus no less. This works in both versions and I believe is based on how much progress is made (ie, how far one progresses in a run).

Actually, in testing the original Soukyu, I uncovered a couple more.

Button Config+
ImageImage
Even in here appears to be many unlockable options, I wonder what they could be.

Raizing Sound History
ImageImageImageImage

As I reveal the rest, I'll let you know. Also, there is some relevant material in here so feel free to post what is pertinent.
Adios
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:41 am 


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ImageImage

This option is about the amount of loops. In the first picture it says "game ends after second loop" and in the second "game starts at second loop".
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:55 am 


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Thanks for the info guys. I have to ad the new stuff and all of Rando's score calculations to the ST at some point, as well as flesh out some parts.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:24 pm 



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So the game loops? Interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:32 am 


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no, it doesn't loop by default

it's just a strange quirk that you can make the game loop even if it doesn't by default; dimahoo, twinbee yahhoo, and sexy parodius also have this
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:27 pm 


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Does that mean there's no difference between the loops?


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:32 pm 


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Loops are obviously more difficult.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:16 pm 


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lol, it's not obious to me.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:54 pm 


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Does using bombs and keeping the stock around 3 lower rank too?
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:45 pm 


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*coughs from all of the dust*

Still working on a 1CC on this one. Everything falls apart in Stage 5 and it becomes a fight for survival. Manipulating the ranking system, as others have stated, doesn't really appear to help much. Bullets may fly faster as a result of stronger guns (more enemies to deal with, too), but this gives you a much larger tool kit when battling bosses.

Does anyone have a solid play through video? I have found a few godlike single level plays on youtube, but nothing that plays to the end.

I now have the Otokuyo version. This allows me to play the stage attack mode without the graphical glitching blocking the gameplay (playing on a US Saturn). However, the ranking is low enough that the difficulty doesn't come close to what it would be upon reaching the same stage in arcade mode. Practicing in this mode is pointless, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:24 pm 


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Alamone has an ALL using the red ship up at http://www.super-play.co.uk - I don't know the game well enough to say how good his scoring is, but iirc he clears the game pretty confidently.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:30 am 


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Thanks for the link! Time to study.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:58 pm 


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ExitPlanetDust wrote:
Manipulating the ranking system, as others have stated, doesn't really appear to help much. Bullets may fly faster as a result of stronger guns (more enemies to deal with, too), but this gives you a much larger tool kit when battling bosses.


That's what I'm kind of finding, too. I think the blue ship's guns may be reasonably powerful when powered up, though the laser really may be too weak to cope with the later levels (any other opinions on this?)

One thing I find missing from this guide is a guide to the ships and their relative strengths and weaknesses. For example, if I'm not playing for score, is it ever really worthwhile to use the other ships? Are most rank control tricks mostly for playing for score (since certain ways of scoring increase rank)? What are the approximate strengths of the different webs and vulcans?
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:08 am 


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I noticed something very odd while playing Otokuyo tonight on my newly acquired Model 1 Japanese Saturn. I was playing on Arcade Difficulty (5) as I usually do on my Model 2 US Saturn and the game was noticeably more difficult. More enemies, the enemies were more aggressive, there were more bullets and the bullets were faster. Even bosses were starting patterns they normally don't unless I have the difficulty set to 6 or 7.

I erased any saved data from the Action Replay 4 in 1 menus and tried again with the Action Replay unplugged. I thought maybe I was experiencing some kind of cheat device deterrent. :twisted: But that wasn't the case. It was still much more difficult than what I had experienced when playing on AC difficulty in the past on my US Model 2 Saturn.

So I hooked up the Model 2, erased all saved data and started on AC difficulty. Just as I suspected, the game was quite a bit easier.

Can anyone else test this? Is it a difference between Japanese and other region systems, or a difference between Model 1 & 2 Saturns and not region specific at all? Is non-Otokuyo affected?

I have experienced little differences in loading and game play between Models 1 & 2 with other games in the past, but this is the first time I have seen differences this extreme.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:18 am 


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hey guys, I know that hitting SELECT on the startup screen of the PS1 version brings you to an Options Menu, but I can't read it to figure out how to select Arcade Mode (or to find the arcade difficulty setting)... can somebody breakdown the PS1 options menu for me? Thanks!
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:05 am 


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noiseredux wrote:
hey guys, I know that hitting SELECT on the startup screen of the PS1 version brings you to an Options Menu, but I can't read it to figure out how to select Arcade Mode (or to find the arcade difficulty setting)... can somebody breakdown the PS1 options menu for me? Thanks!


Select the one that looks like this:
アーケードモード

and not this:
特殊モード
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:16 pm 



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I found an ALL on Nicovideo with the green ship (forgot its name) and the player uses an interesting strategy in it.

The green ship has two webs, Mu-sou (pinpoint web with homing lasers) and Random (pinpoint web from the Swordfish except it rotates in the opposite direction of movement). What he does is use Mu-sou but then switch to Random after getting lock-ons so the Random shots (which are more powerful) fire instead. Combine that with the fact that the green ship gets more lock-ons and a maximum multiplier of x6 and it makes for a good scoring run.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:05 pm 


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Ahh, I use that technique sometimes with the red ship. It's good for catching enemies who have fallen outside lock on range.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:12 pm 


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ExitPlanetDust wrote:
I noticed something very odd while playing Otokuyo tonight on my newly acquired Model 1 Japanese Saturn. I was playing on Arcade Difficulty (5) as I usually do on my Model 2 US Saturn and the game was noticeably more difficult. More enemies, the enemies were more aggressive, there were more bullets and the bullets were faster. Even bosses were starting patterns they normally don't unless I have the difficulty set to 6 or 7.

I erased any saved data from the Action Replay 4 in 1 menus and tried again with the Action Replay unplugged. I thought maybe I was experiencing some kind of cheat device deterrent. :twisted: But that wasn't the case. It was still much more difficult than what I had experienced when playing on AC difficulty in the past on my US Model 2 Saturn.

So I hooked up the Model 2, erased all saved data and started on AC difficulty. Just as I suspected, the game was quite a bit easier.

Can anyone else test this? Is it a difference between Japanese and other region systems, or a difference between Model 1 & 2 Saturns and not region specific at all? Is non-Otokuyo affected?

I have experienced little differences in loading and game play between Models 1 & 2 with other games in the past, but this is the first time I have seen differences this extreme.

I would like to revisit this. I don't think it's a Saturn Model 1 vs Model 2 difference at all. I finally got to try out the Playstation version of Soukyugurentai and difficulty 5 (arcade difficulty) is indeed more difficult than when I play the Saturn version on a US Saturn (Otokuyo or otherwise).

I don't have the hardware to test this anymore. If someone with a US and JP Saturn or a Saturn with a region mod could try the following:

Use an Action Replay 4 in 1 or ST-Key to allow you to boot the game while in US region mode. Set the game to AC difficulty (level 5) in the options menu and make a few play throughs in JP and then US region modes. Note the differences in difficulty.

Report!


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:01 pm 



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As I saw a recent renewal of interest on scoring this wonderful game, here's an enemy base value list that I wrote down a couple of years ago. It's part of an upcoming guide that I have been planning to do on the game. All enemy values have been at least triple-checked, but if you think some of them are wrong, feel free to point it out to me so I can correct them. All base values are given in new yen. It was sometimes hard to put names to enemies, so if you have better ideas, let me know so that I can modify them. Any information here can be shared on the shmup wiki or elsewhere ;)


Stage 1

Drones : 1 000
Green planes : 1 000
Red planes : 1 000
Floating tanks : 3 000

Mid-moss : Large floating tank

First part of the mid-boss : 5 000
Mid-bosse's sides (x2) : 5 000
Little machine gun ball : ?
*unlockable
Mid-boss : 10 000

Green carriers : 20 000

Boss : Stealth Bomber 黒瞥 (Kokubetsu/Gambiter)

Triple laser cannons (x2) : 10 000
Rocket launchers (x10): 10 000
Boss : 50 000

Stage 2

Circular drones : 1 000
Blue fighters : 1 000


Green Carriers
*This time they have additional parts that can be destroyed. Hitting the cockpit will do more damage than hitting the core.

Arms (x2) : 6 000
Turrets (x4): 10 000
Ramp : 1 000
Green carrier : 20 000

Laser canon flying platforms : 10 000
Vulcan turrets : 8 000
Mechanical four leg "spiders": 4 000
Green ships (firing either bullets or missiles) : 5 000


Boss : Attack Satellite 深閃 (Shinsen/Perildawn)
*Only boss in which none of its phases ever timeout, this can be exploited for both survival and scoring

Missile launchers (x2) : 10 000
Mine throwers (x2) : 0
Antennas (x4) : 20 000
*unlockable
Spinning drones (x16) : 5 000
Turrets (x 4) : 5 000
Pulse bullet hatches (x8) : 5 000
Boss : 10 000


Stage 3 :

Brown planes : 1 000
Green and yellow mid-size ships : 10 000
Flying drones (any colour) : 1 500
Flying fortresses : 40 000
Trucks : 2 000
Large brown speeders : 20 000
Green speeders : 2 000

Boss : Jumbo Tank 呑竜 (Donryu/Descenter)

Rear turrets (x2) : 10 000
Flamethrowers (x2) : 30 000
Missile hatch : 20 000
Gatling semi-automatic cannons (x2) : 50 000
*Berserk mode activates only if both cannons have been taken out
Boss : 100 000

Stage 4

Red floating tanks : 20 000
Yellow ships : 1 000
Green ships : 1 000

Boss : Tactical Combat Spacecraft 秋嵩 (Akitaka/Victimizer)

Boss : 300 000

Stage 5

Submarines : 30 000
Helicopters : 3 000
Little turrets : 2 000
Little turret’s berserk mode : 20 000
Walkers : 10 000

Boss : Seaplane 海鳳 (Kaihou/G-Omen)

Reactors (x 4) : 40 000
Missile baskets (x7): 5 000
Central gatling cannons (x4) : 30 000
Front cannons (x2) : 80 000
*Next to impossible to destroy without either bombing or dying
Missile hatches (x4) : 20 000
*Two on the first form, and two on the second form
Arms (x2) : 50 000
Rear plasma generators (x 2) : 50 000
Boss : 100 000

Stage 6

Sentries' first form : 30 000
Sentries' second form : 50 000
Blue mid-size ships : 10 000
Base turrets : 5 000

Mid-boss : Turett wall

Side turrets (x2) : 5 000
Front turrets (x4) : 10 000
Homing bullet turrets (x4) : 5 000
Mid-boss : 200 000

Boss : Battleship 爆懺 (Bakuzan/Zodian)

Central machine gun: 10 000
Cannons (x6) : 50 000
Turrets (x12) : 5 000
*Two of them can be skipped if the central machine gun is destroyed with the right timing
Back : 25 000
Reactors (x2) : 100 000
Rocket launchers hatches (x10) : 10 000
Bullet hatches underneath the head (x6) : 16 000
First part of the head : 200 000
Second and third parts of the head : 0
Boss : 800 000


Final boss : Stealth Bomber 黒瞥 (Kokubetsu/Gambiter)

Boss : 1 000 000


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:05 am 


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Thanks a lot for posting these! :)

Drop a link to your guide here as well once you have finished it! Would love to read it (French OK!).
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:27 am 


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Awesome work for sure! I'm glad to see your expertise shared both here and in my score thread, Prickly!
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:58 pm 


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Thanks to all of you who've been building on this over the years. I just got the game, I dig it, but no way I'd figure this all out solo.

louisg wrote:
One thing I find missing from this guide is a guide to the ships and their relative strengths and weaknesses. For example, if I'm not playing for score, is it ever really worthwhile to use the other ships? Are most rank control tricks mostly for playing for score (since certain ways of scoring increase rank)? What are the approximate strengths of the different webs and vulcans?


9 years later, this is still true. The instructions only give a little info:

Red: Toryū 屠竜 ('Slaughter Dragon')
Balance Type
Pilot: Yashida Kaoru


最大照準こそ3機種中最も少ないものの、バランスのとれた性能で非常に扱いやすい機体。

Although the maximum number of lock-ons is the smallest of the three models, it's a very easy to use aircraft with well-balanced performance.


Blue: Shiden 紫電 (Can mean either 'Purple Lightning,' 'Flash' or 'Sword Flash,' I'll go with the latter since it's not purple).
Speed Type
Pilot: Mikizuki Ryōta


照準範囲の広さとスピードがウリで3機扱中最速を誇るスピードは両刃の剣とも言え、扱いきれないパイロットでは自分から敵弾に突っ込んでしまう恐れもある難度の高い機体。

The widest web range and the fastest among the three, but it can be said that's a double-edged sword; a highly difficult aircraft that may be thrown into enemy bullets by a pilot who can't handle it.


Green: Hōga 鵬牙 (let's just translate it as 'Phoenix Fang' and leave it at that).
Power Type
Pilot: Kunimura Rika


パワー重視の機体で、非常に扱いづらいが最大照準数を誇り、3機種中最も高い達成率を狙える機体。反面スピードは最も遅く、俊敏性に欠ける面もある。

A power-oriented aircraft that is extremely difficult to handle, but boasts the maximum number of lock ons, and can aim for the highest rate of achievement among the three models. On the other hand, it has the slowest speed and lacks agility.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:49 am 


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Youtube has matured a ton since this thread started, and a number of replays have been uploaded in the past year or two. You should have more luck searching the Japanese title, though Nico Nico didn't seem to have anything spectacular on offer. I'll leave it here to copy & paste: 蒼穹紅蓮隊

This 29 million run with the green ship seems to be the best, not near the 39 mil mentioned on the first page, but still impressive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw9tT45a3So&t=701s

He seems to avoid not just the powerups but the 100% bonus as well, but still grabs all the bombs.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Soukyugurentai (27.04.05 - guide opened)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:07 am 



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Well the instructions couldn't have summed up things in a better way !

S.O.Q 025 is the strongest, and the best for scoring but the most difficult to use.

S.O.Q 010 is the weakest, and the fastest by far. In fact it's so fast i'd say it is even harder to use than S.O.Q 025 if one isn't used already used to fast ships. Basically it's a ship with Miyamoto-like speed but without the strenght that comes with it. For scoring it is better than S.O.Q 004 but worse than S.O.Q 010.

S.O.Q 004 is the middle ship, and the worse for scoring, but since it is a frontal type A style ship, it can take down threats quickly and effeciently before they can become threatening. Since this game relies on pure interception, in the military sense of the term, one does want to take out enemies before they even reach the screen, or the plane we're in, and S.O.Q 004 is indeed the most effective for that.

Quote:
For example, if I'm not playing for score, is it ever really worthwhile to use the other ships?


So yeah i'd say stick with S.O.Q 004, unless you want a really slow ship, in that case take the S.O.Q 025 because S.O.Q 004 is still quite fast.

Quote:
Are most rank control tricks mostly for playing for score


No, they are essential for survival. Power-ups should be avoided at all costs, otherwise prepare to face severe consequences.

Quote:
since certain ways of scoring increase rank


Yes but since the game is rigged with a bug those ways of scoring are worthless. The game was indeed conceived as a Garegga +++ where you would basically had to no-miss, and survive near infinite rank without breaking the power-up chain, but with the bug it turned out to be the other way around. That articles explains it pretty well : http://shmuplations.com/raizing/

Quote:
What are the approximate strengths of the different webs and vulcans?


Well they depend on the ship so let's examinate them one by one !

For S.O.Q 004, which can lock 6 ennemies at most we have :

- Ei-Dou : This lock is shaped like a half-moon which makes it easier to target enemies on the side, it sends homing lasers which take a bit more time to reach their target than the napalm shots, but they're still strong enough to destroy a lot of ennemies. In their course that can sometimes destroy enemies situated above or below your ship. I don't see a lot of S.O.Q 004 players use it too much but it can be really usefull.

- Pinpoint : Basically the stongest lock of the entire game in practice. It is shaped like a frontal cone and sends sorts of napalm shots that carry massive firepower. They also leave a small impact that is strong enough to destroy popcorn ennemies that happen to be within it.

Vulcan : This one is frontal and gets a tiny bit of extra firepower on the sides at high levels (that tiny bit of side-firepower is super usefull though).

For S.O.Q 010, which can lock 7 ennemies at most we have :

- All-Range : Basically the weakest lock of the entire game. It makes your ship fire small line of lasers towards the ennemies. It is shaped like a sphere which makes it practical for reaching ennemies coming from the sides or from behind. Besides the fact that it's way to weak, the problem is that it takes forever to shoot those lasers (you can still fire the main gun in the meantime though).

- Bou-Ryu : Probably the second best lock of the game. It works exactly the same way that Ei-Dou but can fire one more laser and most importantly it doesn't reduce your ship’s speed. See using all the locks of the game will reduce your speed in a Cave-like focus mode, except this one. Of course reducing speed makes it easier to dodge tight patterns, but if one is choosing S.O.Q 025 it is assumed that one wants speed all the way, so it nice to have this feature that allows massive bullet herding while still being able to intercept enemies efficiently.

Side-note : Experimenting this lock with this character is really what made me understand how to use Ei-Dou efficiently with Kaoru, if I hadn't done it wouldn't have realised how crucial Ei-Dou is.

Vulcan : This one is evaded (except on default level) and gets incredibly weak homing missiles at high levels.

For S.O.Q 025, which can lock 8 enemies at most we have :

- Mu-Sou : Basically take Ei-Dou/Bou-Ryu's shots, Pinpoint's cone shape, and you have Mu-Sou.

- Random : The direction taken by the lock is not random at all, in fact it goes in the exact opposite direction that your ship is going, exactly the same way that Golden and Gremlin's options in Great Mahou Daisakusen. It shaped like a cone, same as Mu-Sou and pinpoint. Strongest lock of the game in theory.

Vulcan : Frontal but gets inverted frontal shots on the sides at high levels : instead of following your direction like DonPachi’s Chopper they go towards the other way.

The game is not really played a lot (especially considering the popularity of the studio), it is not simple and there is hardly any info out there except Icarus's guide so if you have any more questions feel free to ask ;)


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