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 Post subject: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 pm 


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Joined: 07 Sep 2013
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Location: Pennsylvania
So obviously fighting games are most fun played against friends or competitive strangers, but of course unless you're playing the latest Tekken (I love 7!) or the latest Street Fighter (V is just meh), you aren't going to be easily finding other people to play with. Good luck organizing that Karnov's Revenge tournament (Well actually... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InjhVEY5dm4) or easily hopping into KOF XIV netplay.

So what about the merit of fighting game single player modes? The problem with a lot of modern fighting games is that their AI is pretty much nonexistent (ever try playing one of the random offline Nesica fighting games at Round 1?), but what about fighting games that actually put up a... fight with its AI? Off the top of my head, I think the Neo Geo SNK fighting games would qualify as good single player fighting games, the AI puts up a pretty good fight, and of course there are the infamous SNK bosses. The Street Fighter II games also offer quite a nice challenge I think against the AI.

Basically it seems like when the games were originally limited to arcades, they had to put up a decent fight so people would keep putting in quarters without getting bored even without challengers always on hand, and when fighting games came to consoles, especially with the advent of online play, developers stopped caring as much about the AI since they figured online play would sustain things (of course that would require making the netcode not awful but I digress).

Thoughts?
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:23 pm 


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I remember Unlimited Hazama in Blazblue Continuum Shift fucked me uuuuppp!!
But i'm generally trash at fighters as you well know..

(cave batters me at Kof13)

I have been meaning to go back and go through fatalfury, kof etc and try to beat all the arcade modes in mame.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:24 pm 


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One of my most played games ever, is the console ports of Street Fighter Alpha 3 in arcade mode. It's the game I reach to when I just wanna unwind. I sit there and just mindlessly practice combos and alpha counters for a good while(I have a lot of fun doing this to unwind, it feels very zen to me).

I think that series and the SF2 one offer good oposition and fun times in arcade mode, even at moderate difficulty level. And AI does a good job. After playing for a long while you notice that each character has it's go-to combos, sure. But that's like playing against the same person all the time. At least it feels like a person is playing. I got no complaint against that AI, it's well put together and feels solid
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:58 pm 


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I remember the SNES version of Turbo... you could literally manipulate the AI on that. The whole 'reach M. Bison without losing energy to unlock Sheng Long' think? I did that on level 8 the AI got so predictable.

The arcade version does it to a lesser degree, but time hasn't been kind and my reflexes are not what they were :D
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:06 pm 


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Sam Sho II is great for this. Rock-solid game, relentless but not impervious AI, GIGANTIC PERSONALITY. You will feel the unbridled IKARI NO SENGOKU Image Image The VAs were audibly sweating as hard as the rest of the staff. KOROSHIIIIII!

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Is Genjuro gonna have to choke-slam a bitch?

Marc wrote:
I remember the SNES version of Turbo... you could literally manipulate the AI on that. The whole 'reach M. Bison without losing energy to unlock Sheng Long' think? I did that on level 8 the AI got so predictable.

The arcade version does it to a lesser degree, but time hasn't been kind and my reflexes are not what they were :D


I gotta look up that scan where a UK magazine brazenly stole EGM's April Fools Sheng Long story... then upgraded it to work on the SNES cart... and even described the "HARD-WON, SATISFYING ENDING" :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:17 pm 


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well looks like I shouldn't have lumped SF2 in my last paragraph. that was a mistake

I stand by SFA3 tho


@BIRRU I need to play some SamSho. I'm a crt/lo-res nut so I'll have to get me a consolized MVS(been wanting that for a while anyway), unless there's very good ports @ 240p. At least I have my Saturn for some good KoF action. Is there SamSho ports on there or PS1?

EDIT : looks like SSV on PS2 runs at 240p. as seen in list below. Is it a good one? might pick up that KoF one too.
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55420
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:47 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
@BIRRU I need to play some SamSho. I'm a crt/lo-res nut so I'll have to get me a consolized MVS(been wanting that for a while anyway), unless there's very good ports @ 240p. At least I have my Saturn for some good KoF action. Is there SamSho ports on there or PS1?


Sadly the only SSII port I know of that gen is for PS1, and it has godawful load times that ruin the presentation (not great in any game, but particularly depressing for Sam Sho II).

Happily though, the ACA NeoGeo version on PS4 is (like all games covered by the series) effectively perfect. It has some decent scanline options, but I like to leave it unfiltered. Excellent alternative if, like me, you're away from your CMVS!

Quote:
EDIT : looks like SSV on PS2 runs at 240p. as seen in list below. Is it a good one? might pick up that KoF one too.
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55420


Examu's SSV Special is widely regarded by competitive players as among the series' absolute best. Lots of intricacies to work with. SSII is much simpler but in that context it's well-regarded by JP tournament players to this day (great watch).

If I recall, KAI once mentioned the PS2 Neo Geo Online Sam Sho collection being good, no experience with it myself. I'd look that one up if PS4 ACA's not an option (the ACA NeoGeo series is on Switch, XB1 and Windows, too, but I've never tried those). Although, I see it lacks SSV Special... not sure how well vanilla SSV is regarded.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm 


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I always liked the adventure mode in Soul Calibur 2. You go around clearing missions on a world map which unlocks new areas. A lot of missions have special rules and requirements and there are light RPG elements where you earn money and buy new weapons.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:15 pm 


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Ninja Master's: Haō Ninpō Chō was, at least, difficult vs A.I. Normally, with infinite continues, you can credit-feed through this genre game without much knowledge of it, can't you? Surely clearing Soul Calibur 1&2 this way (to unlock Adventure) was easy in my experience. Well, Ninja Master's, which I played more seriously at some point, was much harder to me.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:45 pm 


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Single player is definitely an afterthought a lot of the time and that's a real shame because as has already been stated here the AI is at its best when it feels like facing a human opponent - after all, how many humans will have played your super-niche game enough for you to not obliterate them? And then you need to have those humans as friends.

Street Fighter Alpha 3's World Tour mode was great - apart from the bullshit final fight against multiple X-ISM Shin M. Bisons with their super gauges permanently maxed. That's the sort of thing I hate in a single player mode for a fighting game - a ludicrously unbalanced boss fight.

Tatsunoko vs. Capcom was one I had a tonne of fun with from a single player perspective - never did manage to find an online match. There's plenty of unlockables to encourage you to try out different characters. The final boss is a unique challenge but a fair one. The control system might seem oversimplified at first but I think it works well, with complexity coming from counters, assists and the tag team system as a whole. As standard for Capcom, the roster is well balanced and the partner system gives you tremendous choice in how you decide to play. A real shame it's probably never coming back now the licences have expired. No-one asked for it, no-one played it (because Wii) and no-one will see it again. And yet it's great.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:11 pm 


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I heard people say the Skullgirls singleplayer AI is something special because they designed it to operate more like a teaching puzzle than a virtual human.

Confirm/deny?
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:12 am 


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Nice, I thought I was the only one who still liked to play fighting games against the A.I.

The earlier Samurai Shodown games are good fun going for the 1cc. Tried Samurai Shodown 1 some weeks ago with Hahomaru, took me a while to finally clear it without losing on default MVS difficult. Each CPU character has a specific pattern so the player needs to recognize it and develop a way to counter it. Took me some time to figure out Earthquake and Charlotte (who I still need a bit of luck to defeat). The special credits song is sweet.

All these modern fighintg games just can't do arcade mode like they used to.


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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:21 pm 


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There are a few fighting games out there with a well-developed singleplayer mode. Out of the top of my head I can recommend Warzard / Red Earth and the amazing tournament mode of One Must Fall 2097. In both of them it's not just about beating your opponent but also taking as little damage as possible.

But even regular fighting games can provide a lot of fun. One of my most played titles in MAME was Last Blade 2, exclusively in singleplayer.
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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:28 am 


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I don't recall its exact name, but the PS2 port of Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution comes with a "free lessons" mode of sorts, where you're in-depth taught about each and every character's moveset. This is, I suppose, a thing everyone who designs fighting games dearly wishes to be known about their creations, but not everyone is given resources to develop such a schooling device. Soul Calibur's Adventure also betrays this way of thinking, seems to me. So do "challenge shrines" in Onimusha 3 (which is primarily a fighting game, albeit single-player only). See, at least PS2-gen Capcom was both bloody brilliant at developing most magnificent action games, as it was clumsy about hinting at their core mechanics (the same can be said about PS2-gen Sega). Particularly, I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of Viewtiful Joe and Onimusha players had spent quite a lot time playing them "all wrong". Come Onimusha 3, you simply won't access all of the game's content without executing all of its executable techniques properly at least once, so even a player inexperienced with fighting games, sporting nonetheless a "completist's" mindset, is given incentive and tools to appreciate it for what it truly, essentionally is.
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Last edited by Obiwanshinobi on Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fighting games as a single player challenge
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:25 pm 


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VF4 is a good one, they went over & above with that one.

NetherRealm stuff is made with the knowledge that plenty of casuals play their games, so stuff like Injustice 2 includes tons of story & unlockables.

I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the KoF games over the years, as fighting games go they have a pretty ridiculous amount of lore tucked away in there, and the games tell an ongoing story which directly references previous ones.

I've lost touch with the Soul Calibur games, but they generally had rpg modes tucked in there.


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