Does an "all in one" VGA monitor exist?

[Mantis128]

So to make a long story short I'm currently planning out a "dream setup" of sorts and I've come across a hurdle. I want a CRT that can handle RGB, component and VGA at both 15 and 31khz, however the only CRT's capable of this that I am aware of are ultra rare RGB monitors that I probably have little to no chance of ever coming across.

But then I remembered old computer monitors. From everything I've read, most will not except anything below 480p, but I have heard of some accepting 15khz singles.

What I was wondering is do such monitors exist that can also handle YPBPR, or should I just ditch the idea and go the upscalers route?

[maxtherabbit]

So to make a long story short I'm currently planning out a "dream setup" of sorts and I've come across a hurdle. I want a CRT that can handle RGB, component and VGA at both 15 and 31khz, however the only CRT's capable of this that I am aware of are ultra rare RGB monitors that I probably have little to no chance of ever coming across.

But then I remembered old computer monitors. From everything I've read, most will not except anything below 480p, but I have heard of some accepting 15khz singles.

What I was wondering is do such monitors exist that can also handle YPBPR, or should I just ditch the idea and go the upscalers route?

multisync PC CRT that go down to 15kHz exist but I've never even heard of one with component inputs. I doubt one was ever made. Unless you include something like the NEC XM Plus series, which is more PVM than PC monitor

[Guspaz]

An OSSC hooked up to a CRT will let any PC monitor handle both 15khz and 31 khz signals.

[azmun]

An OSSC hooked up to a CRT will let any PC monitor handle both 15khz and 31 khz signals.

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but an OSSC hooked up to a PC CRT will handle 15khz source and convert it to 31khz. It will not display is low res 240p/480i.

[SuperDeadite]

I use a tri-sync arcade monitor. For component systems, I use an X-Select D4 as a transcoder.
X-Select knows the difference between 240p/480i/480p and doesn't scale anything. So it's rather helpful
for the more annoying systems like PS2.

[Sirotaca]

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but an OSSC hooked up to a PC CRT will handle 15khz source and convert it to 31khz. It will not display is low res 240p/480i.

Turn on 100% scanlines at line2x and the effect is the same.

[thchardcore]

An OSSC hooked up to a CRT will let any PC monitor handle both 15khz and 31 khz signals.

This. I use an OSSC for all consoles, a Modded VGA box for Dreamcast and the A1 Retroscaler for all arcade boards. Everything is hooked up to 21 inch Viewsonic and Sony PC CRTs. I haven't even turned on my JVC RGB monitor since I started using this setup. It's flawless.

[maxtherabbit]

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but an OSSC hooked up to a PC CRT will handle 15khz source and convert it to 31khz. It will not display is low res 240p/480i.

Turn on 100% scanlines at line2x and the effect is the same.

it's close but it's really not tho

[Sirotaca]

it's close but it's really not tho

It should look identical to how native 15 kHz would look on the same monitor if it were supported, apart from perhaps some brightness variation. It's not like the beam width changes based on input resolution or anything like that.

[Josh128]

^
Line doubled 240p w/ faux scanlines is not as bright as true 15KHz 240p, but thats another debate.

OP is looking for the Wei-Ya / Makvision M3129 or M3138 tri-sync CGA,EGA,VGA CRT monitors. Accepts RGBHV or RGB+ Composite Sync only. Both are still being produced as of 2020. I have one coming in today from the guy selling them in the For Sale section of shmups. If FedEx didnt destroy it, I hope to test and post some pics in the coming week or so.

This is what OP is looking for. Last of the mohecans. A user is selling some right now in the trading post section of this forum.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66905

http://www.weiya.com.tw/products.asp?le=english&fid=26

[Guspaz]

The point was only that a single PC CRT monitor with an OSSC is a decent all-in-one CRT solution. Monitors that can support 240p/480i/480p simultaneously were rare even back then, and any PC CRT with an OSSC (and possibly an HDMI-to-VGA adapter) can do it.

I really regret throwing out my Viewsonic A90 when I moved out. It supported pretty much every sync type (RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB), interlaced modes (at some resolutions anyhow), and maxed out at 1600x1200 at 69Hz. Basically, it would take anything you could throw at it from 30 to 86 kHz. And I just threw it in the trash. Sigh.

[fernan1234]

Those Wei-Ya monitors sound amazing in every way, except the 0.79mm dot pitch (on the 29'') sounds too rough compared to the 0.25mm grill pitch I'm used to now. A sharper picture would make them virtually perfect.
Oh and the lack of composite and YC input is also a bummer.

[DejahThoris]

Those Wei-Ya monitors sound amazing in every way, except the 0.79mm dot pitch (on the 29'') sounds too rough compared to the 0.25mm grill pitch I'm used to now. A sharper picture would make them virtually perfect.
Oh and the lack of composite and YC input is also a bummer.

They're nice on paper for sure. But they're really not very impressive in person.

And of course, Wei-Ya isn't known for longevity/quality to begin with.

[Josh128]

The dot pitch of .79mm is slightly finer than the Wells Gardner D9200/D9400 27" series multisync monitors (.83mm)-- that pitch level is basically the standard for 27" medium res arcade monitors that powered arcades from the mid 90's to the early 00's. It should look damn near perfect with 25KHz medium res games, slightly sharper 15KHz than say a WG7000, and maybe slightly softer 31KHz than your average PC monitor or 1080i HD CRT.

In any case, I'll find out soon enough as I toted mine in my house today. I used to own a Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" HD CRT and its 480p was incredible with Gamecube / Xbox progressive scan titles, and its dot pitch at .78mm for 36" was quite a bit finer than this one, but I actually think this bodes well for 15KHz and 25KHz arcade game use cases, which is exactly what I got it for. I want to see my Mace:TDA arcade in all its medium res glory, and double up as a 15KHz Neo Geo MVS and Groovy MAME machine. On paper, at least, this monitor is perfect for those use cases.

[kitty666cats]

http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0051-nettv-rgb.html

^ If you find the Sampo unit that looks just like this, but also has 15kHz YPbPr inputs (Sampo SME-32DL5), and do our own Mike Moffitt's mod in this link, you'll have a 240p<->720p/1080i/1024x768p beast! My model doesn't have the component inputs, but that's okay. The dual subwoofers + speakers are DEVASTATING! You can't turn 'er up past 33% when the subwoofers are activated without causing an earthquake It can't go quite as high res as certain Mitsubishi and NEC presentation monitors (some of those can do 1280x1024p), but the insanely good speakers on the Sampo really make it stand out.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDCjoozFyNw/

^ dope speakers

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDC5iLOFzD3/

^ 1024x768 KODI

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBt_As8FkYQ/

^ series of 240p RGBS Sega Saturn pics

[Guspaz]

In any case, I'll find out soon enough as I toted mine in my house today. I used to own a Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" HD CRT and its 480p was incredible with Gamecube / Xbox progressive scan titles, and its dot pitch at .78mm for 36" was quite a bit finer than this one, but I actually think this bodes well for 15KHz and 25KHz arcade game use cases, which is exactly what I got it for. I want to see my Mace:TDA arcade in all its medium res glory, and double up as a 15KHz Neo Geo MVS and Groovy MAME machine. On paper, at least, this monitor is perfect for those use cases.

What are you doing for a chassis for it? A cab? They seem a tad DIY.

I'm not sure the lack of composite or Y/C inputs is that big of a deal, since all that would be doing is decoding those and converting to RGB, and there are existing devices that can do that. A Koryuu fed into an RT-COMP2RGB, for example.

[fernan1234]

I'm not sure the lack of composite or Y/C inputs is that big of a deal, since all that would be doing is decoding those and converting to RGB, and there are existing devices that can do that. A Koryuu fed into an RT-COMP2RGB, for example.

Yeah you're right. A RTink2X classic or pro in passthrough mode paired with a simple HDMI to VGA dongle would also do.

[Xer Xian]

I agree with Guspaz, a standard vga monitor+ossc is the way to go if you don't want to splurge on broadcast monitors. And if a 17" or 19" size is enough for you.

The combo with the ossc gives you control over the width of the scanlines as well, which is pretty much not possible on standalone monitors.

Any eventual brightness loss over standard 240p on a broadcast monitor would also only be due to the monitor's specifications and not the fake scanlines. Get a monitor that doesn't have a super small pitch, or play with the ossc's scanlines settings, and the problem solved.

It's like 95% there, really.

[Mantis128]

An OSSC hooked up to a CRT will let any PC monitor handle both 15khz and 31 khz signals.

I know you can use a normal VGA monitor with converters and line doublers. But my planned setup would probably already be pretty hectic, and adding even more boxes and wires would just make stuff more complicated than it needs to be. Also using upscaler and artificial scanlines kind of defeats the whole purpose of getting a CRT IMO.

At this point I'm heavily considering ditching the CRT idea and just going full flat screen/OSSC.

[Elrinth]

is there a vga monitor which can do: 15khz, 24khz, 31 khz, 640x480, 1024x768, 1920x1440 ?

[Josh128]

In any case, I'll find out soon enough as I toted mine in my house today. I used to own a Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" HD CRT and its 480p was incredible with Gamecube / Xbox progressive scan titles, and its dot pitch at .78mm for 36" was quite a bit finer than this one, but I actually think this bodes well for 15KHz and 25KHz arcade game use cases, which is exactly what I got it for. I want to see my Mace:TDA arcade in all its medium res glory, and double up as a 15KHz Neo Geo MVS and Groovy MAME machine. On paper, at least, this monitor is perfect for those use cases.

What are you doing for a chassis for it? A cab? They seem a tad DIY.

I'm not sure the lack of composite or Y/C inputs is that big of a deal, since all that would be doing is decoding those and converting to RGB, and there are existing devices that can do that. A Koryuu fed into an RT-COMP2RGB, for example.

Yeah, if it checks all the boxes in testing, Im planning on swapping the Wells Gardner K7000 25" in my Mace cabinet with it. I still have my 27" FD Trinitron Wega for all my console needs. The WG actually produces a very nice 15KHz picture, but its limited to 15KHz. The arcade PCB itself is capable of rendering at 512x384 medium res and thats what I got this for. That and if I get every thing set up properly, it should make for a killer MAME cab as well (although its only advantages over WG7000 for MAME would its EGA and VGA modes) -- I plan to purchase a JAMMA switch, possibly the 6 way switch, if I go monkey balls out and add an MVS and the MAME PC as well. If I omit the MVS, I can get by with the cheaper dual JAMMA switch.

Its not just an easy drop in swap though. I'll have to modify the mounting brackets in the cab to work with the frame of the M-3129 and also add some bracing to help support the heavier CRT. I believe this unit is 1.5" wider and 3/4" to 1" taller than the WC 7000.

[FinalBaton]

There are a handful of PC crt monitors that handle both IIRC. The original ''multisync'' by NEC does. I think I learned of a couple more but can't remember model numbers right now.

Probably very tough to find. But hey a PVM-20L5 or NEC Xm29 isn't easy to find for cheap either.

[thchardcore]

There are a handful of PC crt monitors that handle both IIRC. The original ''multisync'' by NEC does. I think I learned of a couple more but can't remember model numbers right now.

Probably very tough to find. But hey a PVM-20L5 or NEC Xm29 isn't easy to find for cheap either.

True, but they are all small as shit. I'm 35 and I'm not going to squint at anything under 20 inches.

A notable model, should you find one, is the Toshiba Timm. Not sure on the 24khz support, but it has fantastic 15 and 3q khz picture quality.

[FinalBaton]

True, but they are all small as shit. I'm 35 and I'm not going to squint at anything under 20 inches.

A notable model, should you find one, is the Toshiba Timm. Not sure on the 24khz support, but it has fantastic 15 and 3q khz picture quality.

Hmmm... I don't see the OP mentioning screen size restrictions. Nor 24kHz support.

It won't have component input though.

[maxtherabbit]

Fuck anything under 20" I agree. Only displays I have smaller than that is a 17" trinitron PC CRT that never gets used (but looks great) and IBM 5151 and 5154 TTL monitors, because they match their corresponding PCs

[BuckoA51]

is there a vga monitor which can do: 15khz, 24khz, 31 khz, 640x480, 1024x768, 1920x1440 ?

1440p is a bit of a push but the Mitsubishi Megaview can do 15khz & 24khz and up to 1080p, don't expect it to look great at 1080p mind.

[kitty666cats]

is there a vga monitor which can do: 15khz, 24khz, 31 khz, 640x480, 1024x768, 1920x1440 ?

1440p is a bit of a push but the Mitsubishi Megaview can do 15khz & 24khz and up to 1080p, don't expect it to look great at 1080p mind.

I thought Megaviews only went as high as 1280x1024? Or are you talkin' 1080p24/1080p30?

[NJRoadfan]

The 20in Toshiba TIMM does 240p/480i/480p, supports up to a blurry 800x600 (.58mm dot pitch tube).... or 1024x768 interlaced. Inputs are RGB/VGA, composite, S-Video, and RF along with standard RCA inputs for audio, which is provided by some nice built-in stereo speakers. It doesn't do component, but transcoders exist to feed it into the VGA port. Good luck finding one.

[strayan]

Some of the Philips Matchline consumer TVs have rgbhv inputs that take 640x480p in addition to having two rows of Component inputs; one that is 480p only and one that is 240p only.

Like this https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 845418945/

[Josh128]

After some testing with the Wei-ya M-3129, I can tell you that it puts out an incredible picture at 15, 25, AND 31 KHz. Without a doubt, its what OP is looking for. Dreamcast through VGA looks stunningly crisp and vibrant.

Get yourself a $25 GBS 8200 converter and you can feed it component if you wish. I havent tested that yet, but I see no reason why it wouldnt work just fine.