E3 Discussion Thread

[Rob]

I'd give Nintendo a D at this point, Sony a D-, and Microsoft an A+.

I'd go F+, F-, D- (for having a console out - good on them).

[dave4shmups]

Well, maybe I'll give them extra credit ( ) for this news:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6150678.html

[Vexorg]

Well, thanks for the clarification on all that.

Right now, I'd say Microsoft is on top. Sony hasn't shown any games that look any better then 360 games (and they should look a LOT better for the price), and Nintendo gave us NO price, abd NO release date for the Wii, and NO details about the Virtual Console (no offense to BIG, but I want to hear it strait from the horse's mouth). No confirmation of Genesis, TG-16, or Turbo Duo games. The controllers look cool, but could we not have seen more then 5 seconds of Mario Galaxy footage, Nintendo?? So now no one can preorder the Revolution after E3 wraps up. Brilliant Nintendo.

I'd give Nintendo a D at this point, Sony a D-, and Microsoft an A+.

Here, fill in some of the gaps:

Virtual console stuff (confirmation of Genesis and TG16:)
http://www.wiigamer.com/?p=780

Super Mario Galaxy video:
http://media.revolution.ign.com/media/7 ... ids_1.html

[Rob]

It's cute that there's already a site called Wii Gamer.

I would hope the title select screens looked that basic, as opposed to the typical mess of Capcom Collection-type random interface (spiral notebook! it's like selecting games on a Geocities preset!). It's the small things that count when paying for easily emulated games.

[dave4shmups]

Thanks Vexorg, just found this nice piece of news!:

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/708/708057p1.html

I personally can't wait for some Square-Enix Trailers, like Eternal Mana, to start showing up.

And what the heck happened to Ubisoft's Killing Day? I hope that isn't dead, but I haven't heard or seen anything about it this year.

[GaijinPunch]

Does anyone else find it incredibly stupid that everyone is getting excited about 20-year old games they can play on a system coming out later this year? I got news for you people -- you can play those games right now, and they'll probably look a lot better than on the Wii/Xbox.

[jp]

Does anyone else find it incredibly stupid that everyone is getting excited about 20-year old games they can play on a system coming out later this year? I got news for you people -- you can play those games right now, and they'll probably look a lot better than on the Wii/Xbox.

Yeah... I think its pretty dumb myself. I always think its dumb... "Look! A new collection!"


*shrugs*

[Rob]

You mean I can play Super Mario Bros. today? WHERE.

[sethsez]

Does anyone else find it incredibly stupid that everyone is getting excited about 20-year old games they can play on a system coming out later this year? I got news for you people -- you can play those games right now, and they'll probably look a lot better than on the Wii/Xbox.

It's nice to have them all (legally) in the same place, on the same hardware. Consolidation is the attraction unless you've got a massive amount of space around your TV or love constantly screwing with wires. God know I'd be annoyed if just about any other medium worked this way, where you get three or four new formats every five years and very few of them are compatible with each other.

[icycalm]

Since I have an absolutely massive collection of illegal roms, I would be very glad if the fuckheads who run the big game companies gave me an opportunity to turn my illegal collection into a legal one.

Now that would get me really excited.

[GaijinPunch]

Averaged out through my life, I've probably lived in less space than the average person, and am always looking for a way to save space... but not at the cost of affecting the quality of the game.

We spent time playing all five games and didn't notice any differences between the Virtual Console versions and the originals, although we must admit that it's been about decade since we last played these games on their native systems. Games played in a letterbox on the widescreen booth display, but screens still looked sharp and vibrant.

Considering nobody in the game journalism world knows fuck all about what they're talking about, and I know how to draw really good conclusions, I'm going to assume that the Wii is incapable of playing these games at their native resolutions. While this won't get Johnny gamer bent out of shape, why would I want to pay for a downloadable version when I could likely buy the real thing, with box & instructions, and have it look "right". If the PS3 still FULLY supports PS1 emulation and doesn't upscale everything, it will be one more reason to buy it. If you're going to make old technology such a huge selling point, at least do it right. I just can't imagine Nintendo doing this at this point. They've always focused on new, and not old. N64 -- virtually no 2D support. Gamecube, no low-res support...even through the GBA player.

If it turns out Nintendo does the unthinkable and actually has full backwards compatibility, I will no doubt, buy a Wii, and even download some games I'm sure.

[dave4shmups]

Does anyone else find it incredibly stupid that everyone is getting excited about 20-year old games they can play on a system coming out later this year? I got news for you people -- you can play those games right now, and they'll probably look a lot better than on the Wii/Xbox.

It's nice to have them all (legally) in the same place, on the same hardware. Consolidation is the attraction unless you've got a massive amount of space around your TV or love constantly screwing with wires. God know I'd be annoyed if just about any other medium worked this way, where you get three or four new formats every five years and very few of them are compatible with each other.

I totally agree. Out of all of the systems whose games will appear on the Virtual Console, I only own an SNES. And I don't have additional room for an NES, N64, Genesis, and TG-16. And if I do get any of these systems, I'll get the import versions, since we're obviously not going to see any import games on the Wii.

I could care less if how many roms I could stack up "NOW"; I don't give a rip how old most of these games are, they are still someone else's intellectual property, which I don't believe I should be able to use at will for free. If others feel differently, fine, but that's where I stand.

At any rate, I've never played any of the games in the Spyro series, but this one looks wicked:

http://gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?fs=1&id=2679

I guess Kirby's Adventure for the Game Cube is gone; one day left for E3, and not an update on it anywhere.

[Vexorg]

That, and the fact that my Genesis looks like crap when I hook it up to my HDTV on composite or RF.

[dave4shmups]

Averaged out through my life, I've probably lived in less space than the average person, and am always looking for a way to save space... but not at the cost of affecting the quality of the game.

We spent time playing all five games and didn't notice any differences between the Virtual Console versions and the originals, although we must admit that it's been about decade since we last played these games on their native systems. Games played in a letterbox on the widescreen booth display, but screens still looked sharp and vibrant.

Considering nobody in the game journalism world knows fuck all about what they're talking about, and I know how to draw really good conclusions, I'm going to assume that the Wii is incapable of playing these games at their native resolutions. While this won't get Johnny gamer bent out of shape, why would I want to pay for a downloadable version when I could likely buy the real thing, with box & instructions, and have it look "right". If the PS3 still FULLY supports PS1 emulation and doesn't upscale everything, it will be one more reason to buy it. If you're going to make old technology such a huge selling point, at least do it right. I just can't imagine Nintendo doing this at this point. They've always focused on new, and not old. N64 -- virtually no 2D support. Gamecube, no low-res support...even through the GBA player.

If it turns out Nintendo does the unthinkable and actually has full backwards compatibility, I will no doubt, buy a Wii, and even download some games I'm sure.

But that's all you're doing is assuming, and there's no basis for assuming that these games won't look just as good as they did back in the day. Even if you were to play these games on an HDTV, there are HDTV's where you can turn down the resolution. And look at what Activision did with it's PS2 Anthology-they included instructions and original box art. What makes you think that the Wii won't have at least instructions? And I'd rather not pay extra on Ebay for some beat-up Nintendo cardboard box, since that's all they used for their games, up until the Cube.

I own a GBA player, and the games look fine-most of them look better then they do on the GBA, unless we're talking about the latest, most back-lit version.

And as for your comments about game journalists, become one yourself if you think you're such a gaming guru. Otherwise, please cut the elitist nonsense.

[GaijinPunch]

I could care less if how many roms I could stack up "NOW";

Who's talking about roms? Click Me

Exactly what I thought he would.

If Nintendo puts full backwards compatibility in the Wii, I will buy you a coke. If it doesn't, and only has the same output capabilities as the Gamecube (and knowing Nintendo, this is the more likely) then they won't look as good. That's why I was assuming, and bold-typed it for everyone's benefit.

HDTV's where you can turn down the resolution? Who? What? Doesn't matter as those TV can't properly handle/display the 15khz signal. As annoying as everyone else may have found Recap, he had a great, short and to the point article that put the complain in laymens terms.

[jp]

I could care less if how many roms I could stack up "NOW";

Who's talking about roms? Click Me

So very very true.

[sethsez]

Even assuming limited resolution options, you're forgetting that people are willing to sacrifice quality for convenience all the time. Look at the gigantic popularity worldwide of MP3 players. Frankly that's a much bigger sacrifice in quality, but most people see it as a reasinable tradeoff.

[GaijinPunch]

Even assuming limited resolution options, you're forgetting that people are willing to sacrifice quality for convenience all the time. Look at the gigantic popularity worldwide of MP3 players. Frankly that's a much bigger sacrifice in quality, but most people see it as a reasinable tradeoff.

MP3's on a good sound system of course, sound like turd compared to CDs, and both sound worse than vinyl (another good example of sacrificing qualtiy). But the reasons for doing so are a little different. You can't properly play CDs in the gym or while running, and you definitely can't with a 12". Old school DJ's will stick to vinyl any day as well. That's a pretty good analogy as well, as Djs are to music as most of us lowlifes are to games.

Anyways, while I do see it possible to have thousands of songs, do people REALLY need thousands of games? A song takes 2-5 minutes of your life, and can be enjoyed while doing just about anything. Games? Different thing. Some games take 30 minutes, some take 60 hours. The space thing is a good argument, but having spent a LOT of time in a box (I shit you not), I can't help but think "where there's a will, there's a way".

I'm really curious to see how what happens when the Johnny consumers Wii breaks, or Nintendo comes out with their next, next-gen. Is there going to be an easy way to copy the games? What if your HD dies? Will they let you download them again for free? You just paid perhaps $10 for some 1's and 0's. Surely it's no skin of Nintendo's cocks to let you download it again. The question is "will they"? I've bought lots of downloadable software, only to have it go corrupt or my HD to go tits up, and found out I bought "a 3-week download license". In other words, I had to download an illegal version of software I legally owned. Fucking Symantec..they're going to hell.

[Rob]

I'll take the wrong resolution over tracking down a box of filthy, barely functioning 100th hand NES carts.

[sethsez]

MP3's on a good sound system of course, sound like turd compared to CDs, and both sound worse than vinyl (another good example of sacrificing qualtiy). But the reasons for doing so are a little different. You can't properly play CDs in the gym or while running, and you definitely can't with a 12". Old school DJ's will stick to vinyl any day as well. That's a pretty good analogy as well, as Djs are to music as most of us lowlifes are to games.

Vinyl's sound quality is overstated (it just can't have the dynamic range that digital media can produce since the needle will skip, and a lot of what people like about vinyl's sound is actually distortion rather than a faithful reproduction of what was recorded), but that's another argument for another thread.

Anyways, while I do see it possible to have thousands of songs, do people REALLY need thousands of games?

Well, "songs" is a bit unfair... an album is what takes up physical space, not a song. Most people don't have thousands of albums.

A song takes 2-5 minutes of your life, and can be enjoyed while doing just about anything. Games? Different thing. Some games take 30 minutes, some take 60 hours. The space thing is a good argument, but having spent a LOT of time in a box (I shit you not), I can't help but think "where there's a will, there's a way".

Well, yes. One of those ways is to store them digitally on a single piece of hardware devoted to playing them.

I'm really curious to see how what happens when the Johnny consumers Wii breaks, or Nintendo comes out with their next, next-gen. Is there going to be an easy way to copy the games? What if your HD dies? Will they let you download them again for free? You just paid perhaps $10 for some 1's and 0's. Surely it's no skin of Nintendo's cocks to let you download it again. The question is "will they"? I've bought lots of downloadable software, only to have it go corrupt or my HD to go tits up, and found out I bought "a 3-week download license". In other words, I had to download an illegal version of software I legally owned. Fucking Symantec..they're going to hell.

Steam already deals with issues like this, and for the most part it's painless. I can't imagine Nintendo hasn't taken this into consideration.

[GaijinPunch]

I'm sure they have, but you never know. I've been pretty disgusted with the level of service and complete stupidty of "companies" in general, gaming and non-gaming. Just when you think they can't be topped, something else happens. Then again, Sony's latest antics w/ their pricing scheme may qualify as stupidity. We will see tough.

For what it's worth, the Wii is the only one so far that has new games I really want to try out, and am actually a bit turned off by the controller. Doesn't do it for me. VC? Cool for other people I guess, but I have an 25" RGB monitor (that cost me a whopping $70) and an ArcadeVGA. Of course, I can hack a cable and play the originals as well to keep it legit if need be.

Now let's just see if it REALLY is $250.

[Kron]

Well I got to see a rendered movie of Forza 2. Looks like I'm finally going to break down and buy an xbox 360.

I'm sorry what? You'd buy a system after seeing a completely pointless CGI video which has no relation to the actual game?

[EOJ]

Vinyl's sound quality is overstated (it just can't have the dynamic range that digital media can produce since the needle will skip, and a lot of what people like about vinyl's sound is actually distortion rather than a faithful reproduction of what was recorded), but that's another argument for another thread.

Perhaps it's overstated, but it's not overrated. Vinyl sounds way better than CD if you're using a good turntable with a good needle.
I've bought tons of albums on both CD and vinyl and the vinyl versions always sound noticably better. This is because vinyl LPs have a better Maximum-Average RMS power and a lower noise floor than CDs, even though CDs have a greater dynamic range (due to the slight surface noise on LPs). The greater Maximum-Average RMS power (a measure of 'relative dynamics', which is the difference in dB levels between any two frequencies on a waveform-- the dynamic range, in contrast, is the difference between the loudest signal and the noise floor on the waveform) makes the frequencies feel more naturally spaced to the listener, and leads to better, more natural sound reproduction at louder volumes, something CDs cannot replicate. This isn't a theory or opinion, it is a scientifically proven fact.

[system11]

Well I got to see a rendered movie of Forza 2. Looks like I'm finally going to break down and buy an xbox 360.

I'm sorry what? You'd buy a system after seeing a completely pointless CGI video which has no relation to the actual game?

I'm with that guy. An awful lot of the E3 trailers are just moviestyle promos, they show nothing of the game, not even how it will look. After that promo the game could turn out to be like Mariokart. Not likely of course, but you get the point. Nintendo scored well here as much of the stuff shown was real gameplay, for better or worse.

I wish there were some way to collectively tell the companies 'please only show us trailers with some real gameplay footage', but the trend seems firmly towards imitating hollywood at this point.

[icycalm]

How do they imitate Hollywood? Movies have no gameplay footage.

[system11]

How do they imitate Hollywood? Movies have no gameplay footage.

You know exactly what I mean. Cinemtic, booming bass, explosions, the 'deep voice of one who does movie introductions'. A work of fiction. Actually if anything at least movie trailers are more indicative of the content

Utterly pointless.

Worthless pointless bastards.

Spoken like someone who downloaded a bunch of E3 trailers and didn't need to have wasted that time. I think only 4 or 5 out of the 15+ were worth it, purely on representative content alone.

[jp]

Well I got to see a rendered movie of Forza 2. Looks like I'm finally going to break down and buy an xbox 360.

I'm sorry what? You'd buy a system after seeing a completely pointless CGI video which has no relation to the actual game?

I'm with that guy. An awful lot of the E3 trailers are just moviestyle promos, they show nothing of the game, not even how it will look. After that promo the game could turn out to be like Mariokart. Not likely of course, but you get the point. Nintendo scored well here as much of the stuff shown was real gameplay, for better or worse.

I wish there were some way to collectively tell the companies 'please only show us trailers with some real gameplay footage', but the trend seems firmly towards imitating hollywood at this point.

Given that Halo 3 in theory was the in game engine... I don't think its too much to assume that the possibility is there that Fable 2 and Forza 2 weren't CG movies, but displays of the in game engine much like Halo 3 supposedly was.

At which point... the 360 is just f'ing crazy.

[icycalm]

Yeah, I also started downloading tons of trailers, but then I only ended up watching 4 or 5 and I canceled the rest of the downloads.

Halo 2 (edit: 3), Genji 2, a montage of X360 titles and some Gears of War in-game footage. And I also saw a few seconds of the Heavenly Sword trailer before throwing it in the trash.

I've gotten so good at this that I can imagine what a trailer will look like if you tell me the game, the company, and show me one or two pictures. It saves me the bandwidth.

Btw, it's funny how bad Heavenly Sword looks. I can't believe people are taken in by that.

[Kiken]

I'll take the wrong resolution over tracking down a box of filthy, barely functioning 100th hand NES carts.

Everyone knows that NES carts are made from kevlar. They're indestructible. You just have to blow on the contacts, remember?

[Herr Schatten]

How do they imitate Hollywood? Movies have no gameplay footage.

You know exactly what I mean. Cinemtic, booming bass, explosions, the 'deep voice of one who does movie introductions'. A work of fiction. Actually if anything at least movie trailers are more indicative of the content

Utterly pointless.

Worthless pointless bastards.

Don't forget about all the money that's been burned for doing those trailers, which could have went into making the games better instead.