Why do people dislike Sony but not Microsoft?

[Ceph]

I'd like to know why people are hating Sony but not Microsoft. Sony (the company as a whole, except for their console gaming division) isn't doing so well and it doesn't seem like they'll take over the world anytime soon. As for the marketing hogwash that accompanies each new generation of consoles, who gives a damn. Sony-BMG and their DRM shenanigans are another story, though.

Now Microsoft on the other hand, that is a scary company. Their OS are running on 90% of the world's PCs, which means they have a monopoly, something they achieved by questionable means. They own insane software patents (which thank goodness are only valid in the US) for stuff like timed mouseclicks, scrolling in a window, progress bars etc. which could be used to make software development for small businesses impossible. They agressively fight free software which now remains the only threat to them. They dictate prices, pretty much force companies to buy new unimproved versions of their operating systems and office software (in order to retain compatibility) that require faster PCs every couple of years. If they decide to enter a new field of business (eg. console gaming), it doesn't matter at all to them if they take huge losses for a few years. They have a turnover of 3.4 Billion USD (3,400,000,000$) per month, that is 113 Million Dollars every day. They have a market capitalization of 239.42 Billion USD, which means their available equity equals 0.5% of all combined shares of all companies traded on all stock markets on this planet. A company with merely 64,000 employees. That doesn't scare you?

Remember what happened in 1911 when John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil was found to be a monopoly? Your guess is right, the company was broken up into several smaller companies, consumers rejoyced and prices went down. Microsoft has been convicted of monopolistic business practices in the year 2000. And what happened? Again, your guess is right. Nothing happened. At all. All hail the mighty Lobbyists, the rulers of all!

So why does someone have strong sentiments against Sony and on the other hand like Microsoft?

If you aren't interested in this, then please refrain from replying.

[system11]

Well, actually a lot of people hate Microsoft too. It's just that in gamerland, currently Sony are nearly a monopoly (PS2), and they've been a visibly more evil company of late from a gamers point of view.

"The next generation doesn't start until we say it does" is hardly an endearing comment. Making a multiregion handheld and then threatening legal action against exporters is never going to win many fans. As a side issue, ramming DRM onto CDs that damages peoples PCs isn't very nice, and more to the point, creating only a half hearted attempt at a repair tool and never bothering to actually say sorry is just rude.

The Xbox/360 is a difficult product for me. I hate Microsoft. I've hated Windows for years, I hate they way they run their business, I hate the artificial hurdles put in place by their monopoly, and I hate the way they bribe people into using their software to maintain that monopoly. On the other hand, the 360 is a good product. It /appears/ to be something they actually wanted to do well.

Microsoft remind me of IBM. IBM were a big nasty company for a while, and they got slapped with an antitrust suit (AND punishment). It appeared to teach them a lesson, now they're still a great big company, but they seem to follow a more ethical approach to making money. Now, Microsoft were hit with antitrust suits too, but the spineless bastards who could have made a difference, let them off the hook. I don't believe large monopolistic companies are able to function without being detrimental, until they've had their slap on the wrist. Microsoft sorely need this, then they might grow up and become like IBM.

Back to Sony. They just need to stop being so hostile towards their own fans and genuine customers, and they need to learn a little about being honest. And as much as anything, a lot of the hate is backlash against the blind noisy love shown by Sony fanboys.

[icycalm]

They have a turnover of 3.4 Billion USD (3,400,000,000$) per month, that is 113 Million Dollars every day. They have a market capitalization of 239.42 Billion USD, which means their available equity equals 0.5% of all combined shares of all companies traded on all stock markets on this planet. A company with merely 64,000 employees. That doesn't scare you?

Why should that scare me? It's not like they are pointing guns at my face.

Success breeds success, let the weak perish.

There are countless people who hate Microsoft. They hate them for the same reason countless people hate America. It's a jealousy thing. Besides, hating a faceless multinational is not exactly very smart. Hell, hating anything is just misguided. What you have to do is understand why things are the way they are, and move on. Here's a Nietzsche quote for you: "...where one can no longer love, there one should pass by."

On a side note, Bill Gates is the world's biggest philanthropist--past and present. He has done more good as one person than many smaller nations have.

[Brian]

I hate Windows, Office and pretty much all MS products as they are horrible. They are the equivalent of GM or Toyota selling cars without the tires and telling you they'll get back to that "design bug" in the future. But, that said, I have a new found respect for Bill Gates and it has nothing to do with software or hardware. Rather, the time and money he has given to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation fighting disease all around the world is truly a marvel. The fact is, he and his wife have done more for developing nations than all the governments of the world combined. It is refreshing to see a man who has so much give so much of it back.

[Stormwatch]

The main reason why I hate Sony:

66 million polygons per second.

Back when they announced those specs, everyone thought it'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread. In the long run, that pretty much ruined the Dreamcast's chances: it was just so wimpy in comparison!

The problem: that number is FALSE. The PS2 can only do that under ideal conditions: no texturing, lighting, or vertex colors applied. In-game, you get 1/10th of that. Which is pretty close to the Dreamcast's power. Meaning, their lies destroyed a worthy opponent.

Sony should adopt this character as their mascot:


The Cheat

[Fenrir]

I hate M$oft and pretty much love Sony, if that makes you feel better
90% of my home is sony-branded (for coherence, and because their stuff (HiFi, monitors, TVs etc) is solid and of decent quality for a mid-user like me. On the other hand, I try to use the Amiga as much as possible to avoit the evil, subtle corporate smelly hands of M$ and their stupid policies, invasive programs and overall user-unfriendly stuff.

GO !!!

[junkeR]

Why should that scare me? It's not like they are pointing guns at my face.

Success breeds success, let the weak perish.

There are countless people who hate Microsoft. They hate them for the same reason countless people hate America. It's a jealousy thing. Besides, hating a faceless multinational is not exactly very smart. Hell, hating anything is just misguided. What you have to do is understand why things are the way they are, and move on. Here's a Nietzsche quote for you: "...where one can no longer love, there one should pass by."

On a side note, Bill Gates is the world's biggest philanthropist--past and present. He has done more good as one person than many smaller nations have.

I agree with you 100%

[Michaelm]

I hate Microsoft for the reasons already mentioned and ofcourse cause I was a big Amiga user. Even if I now for some years have switch to PC and Windows and don't regret it because it opened a lot of possibilties I couldn't do with my Amiga without spending atleast double the cash.
But I hate Microsoft software. I wish it would be more open like the Amiga was. I wish they didn't use that stupid registry file and so on.
I want to control my computer, I don't need some microsoft wiseguy telling me what I can and can't do.

I don't hate Sony for the least bit in these regards.
But I do hate all companies that are unethical in their doings.
But because I won't be able to change this I'll be buying stuff like everyone does.

[highlandcattle]

I dislike sony for their lies and because the crap built quality of their consoles.

I don't hate M$ because I always have used mac. i've never bought an MS product. I hate the fact that the windows logo is on my DC I should get that off sometime

[system11]

On a side note, Bill Gates is the world's biggest philanthropist--past and present. He has done more good as one person than many smaller nations have.

And also more bad. It's almost like he's trying to make up for something. Sometimes I wonder how many of the despicable things Microsoft do are ones he can do anything about anymore.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/art ... eId=111186

There's a recent one. The license strongarm tactics I can verify exist, having been inolved with such audits myself. You have to pay the accusers to prove your innocence, and having 40 license seals and 40 machines does not necessarily mean you aren't going to have to pay for it all over again.

Then there's the whole thing with Windows only portable media players. Go and check any 'main' western store and see what mp3 players they have. Now see how many are Windows only. This is down to the 'MTP' protocol, which you must license to implement, locking these devices to Windows. Now, one of the restrictions on use of MTP by unit makers, is that you must /not/ implement any non-MTP transfer method on the same unit. Try getting non-MTP firmware for units that use standard USB mass storage in other regions like Korea. I did, and I hit a brick wall. The manufacturers pretty much have to go with this, because WMP is geared towards MTP devices (the whole 'playsforsure' initiative). In case you're wondering, the MTP spec which Microsoft were made to publish, also prohibits free software implementations.

There's a difference between jealousy, and disliking a company because they are screwing people as hard as they can. Their OS division is most certainly doing that.

[SAM]

They own insane software patents (which thank goodness are only valid in the US) for stuff like timed mouseclicks, scrolling in a window, progress bars etc. which could be used to make software development for small businesses impossible.

As long as they don't hold the patents of Shmups and force me to play "Age of xxx" by buying out all other game developers. It is okay to me.

The main reason why I hate Sony:

66 million polygons per second.

Back when they announced those specs, everyone thought it'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread. In the long run, that pretty much ruined the Dreamcast's chances: it was just so wimpy in comparison!

The problem: that number is FALSE. The PS2 can only do that under ideal conditions: no texturing, lighting, or vertex colors applied. In-game, you get 1/10th of that. Which is pretty close to the Dreamcast's power. Meaning, their lies destroyed a worthy opponent.

I am do not hate Sony, the truth is they scare me. And this is why they scare me.

Their marketing department is a moster, these people could beat their competator with inferior products. They could even sell thier inferior products in an unreasonable high price.

*********************************

The truth is both Sony and MicroSoft like polygon, so they are both evil. Only 2D people are good.

Luckly, both Sony and MicroSoft are not interested in the Acrade market. Otherwise, video game is doomed.

[TVG]

arcade market is doomed anyway, even in japan its just a shadow of it's former self, let's not even talk about places that aren't japan or california.

nintendo is pretty evil too at times, yet people say nothing.
in the end, companies want money, i dont care what they do as long as they release decent consoles for developpers to make good games on.

monopoly=bad vor videogames, competition=good.

[Stormwatch]

I want to control my computer, I don't need some microsoft wiseguy telling me what I can and can't do.

*whispers into your ear* Liiiiiinuuuuuux... try it... you know you want it...

[Ceph]

Then there's the whole thing with Windows only portable media players. Go and check any 'main' western store and see what mp3 players they have. Now see how many are Windows only. This is down to the 'MTP' protocol, which you must license to implement, locking these devices to Windows. Now, one of the restrictions on use of MTP by unit makers, is that you must /not/ implement any non-MTP transfer method on the same unit. Try getting non-MTP firmware for units that use standard USB mass storage in other regions like Korea. I did, and I hit a brick wall. The manufacturers pretty much have to go with this, because WMP is geared towards MTP devices (the whole 'playsforsure' initiative). In case you're wondering, the MTP spec which Microsoft were made to publish, also prohibits free software implementations.

I noticed the exact same thing when looking for an mp3 player in February. I wanted one that could also be used as USB mass storage device without needing drivers/some stupid GUI to copy files to it. Eventually I wound up with a Yakumo Hypersound Xtra. 1GB flash, expandable memory (mmc), supports folders, runs for 10h with one AAA battery. One flaw though, it has no mid-mp3 resume function. If anyone knows of a better one with similar features and resume, please let me know (must not have a build in battery and has to support folders).

Thank you Microsoft for forcing this MTP bullshit on us all.

There's a difference between jealousy, and disliking a company because they are screwing people as hard as they can. Their OS division is most certainly doing that.

Amen to that.

[professor ganson]

In spite of their faults, both companies are going to get a break from me.

Sony created my favorite console: the Jap PS1, which has my favorite shmup library.

MS's XBox was what got me back into gaming after nearly 20 years of no serious gaming-- the XBox was my first console since my childhood Atari 2600.

[SAM]

in the end, companies want money, i dont care what they do as long as they release decent consoles for developpers to make good games on.

That's exactly where the problem is. These big companies made and made others make too much "GOOD" games. They try to prevent "BAD" games like Shmups being released on the console platform.

They found ways to sell many copies of those "GOOD" games so that no more game developers want to make "BAD" games that people here would enjoy playing.

arcade market is doomed anyway, even in japan its just a shadow of it's former self, let's not even talk about places that aren't japan or california.

Acrade Market, dispite being the shadow of its former self, is actuall the only reminding place on Earth that you could find new games that trying to win people over with it's game play. Since games in the acrade have to design in to get people to come back again and agian.

While console games just need to get people fall into the trap once. Ironic example is Mobile Light Force (I am not saying Gunbird / SnS is no good, but the mentalty of those selling the game ), what in the head of those market people is "no matter what we put in that god damed MLF make no difference. Since once the customer is attracted by the game cover to buy the game, it's over.".

This exactly what the main players in the console market are trying to sell us.

[TVG]

They found ways to sell many copies of those "GOOD" games so that no more game developers want to make "BAD" games that people here would enjoy playing.

bullshit.
shmups are low risk-low reward for companies. they dont loose much even if they dont sell. i can't wait for the first bach of next gen shmups so all you people will stop talking.
SCEA is gay tho, they just want 2D games to be released in packs, oh well, we still get plenty of 2D games here in europe.

Acrade Market, dispite being the shadow of its former self, is actuall the only reminding place on Earth that you could find new games that trying to win people over with it's game play.

because it doesnt have a 5 year technological gap with consoles like it used to have in the 80's and 90's. yes i agree.

While console games just need to get people fall into the trap once. Ironic example is Mobile Light Force (I am not saying Gunbird / SnS is no good, but the mentalty of those selling the game ), what in the head of those market people is "no matter what we put in that god damed MLF make no difference. Since once the customer is attracted by the game cover to buy the game, it's over.".

apparently, even the guys that did MLF apologized for it. it was a dumb move anyway since people read reviews, it would have sold more with a good port instead of this sillyness.

This exactly what the main players in the console market are trying to sell us.

two idiots (correct me if im wrong but i think the company that did MLF was just 2 guys) =/= the main players. plain bullshit again.
people read reviews, unless you have a HELL of a liscence, a shitty game wont sell in the end, even with a pretty cover.
liscences will permit to sell shitty games, but that's just because people are idiots.

[Diabollokus]

I dislike both of the companies.

Microsoft don't bother me that much I depend on their software everyday, Sony pissed me off, if they hadn;t entered gaming dreamcast 2 would be on its way and sega would be slightly better off.

I just would like for once, that these people tell the truth. I remember kids at school saying my dreamcast couldn't do 60 million polygons and that it sucked cos PS2 ro><orZ, only met 6 people in my country who owned a DC!

I can't comment on the Sony hardware, strangely I played hundreds of hours on a slimline pal model, many on rpgs and GT4, still works great.

[BulletMagnet]

Both Gates and Katuragi deserve a pie in the face. Methinks people are grumbling at Sony instead of MS because, to the best of my knowledge, only the latter, to date, has received his pie.

And for the record, I have no current plans to buy any of the next-gen consoles, Wii included, since I've got so much to play through on the stuff I already own.

[system11]

I noticed the exact same thing when looking for an mp3 player in February. I wanted one that could also be used as USB mass storage device without needing drivers/some stupid GUI to copy files to it. Eventually I wound up with a Yakumo Hypersound Xtra. 1GB flash, expandable memory (mmc), supports folders, runs for 10h with one AAA battery. One flaw though, it has no mid-mp3 resume function. If anyone knows of a better one with similar features and resume, please let me know (must not have a build in battery and has to support folders).

Pretty sure it doesn't do the resume thing, if you're meaning when you actually turn it off, but I got an iAudio X5. Again, properly mass storage compliant (like nearly every single Korean unit), 20gb disk in it, built in battery but it lasts for a massive 35 hours. Sound quality is unbeatable.

Thank you Microsoft for forcing this MTP bullshit on us all.

Indeed - there was a small iRiver one I liked, MTP only in our region, which is why I ended up not buying it and looking at all the alternatives. For flash type players the iOPS units contain the same DAC as many of the high end disk units, very smart looking too.

[D]

The PS2 vs Dreamcast thing was followed by PS1 vs Saturn.
The Saturn got BUTCHERED in every mag.
Anyone that even bought magazines would be foolish to have bought a Saturn especially here in Europe, only losers bought one back then.
Every mag said that the PS has WAY more power than the Saturn, which just isn't true, the differemces aren't THAT big. But back then everyone wanted a Ridge Racer Cabinet in their room, PS was the closest thing to it, I'm emberassed to say I bought the PS for Tekken 1 . They had that game in my arcade and I thought it was great. An exact copy in my home?
I'll buy that for a dollar, so I got one of those 1400 guilders Japanese ones.= 635 EURO (included the game Tekken 1) = 816 $
Sounds like alot doesn't it?
I'm not bitter at Sony, they introduced marketing to the game.
I'm bitter at the mags, those guys weren't real journalists, they were all probably reject journalists or not even journalists at all.
I know I just struck a nerve at any magazine insiders from back then.F834 'em.
But in all honesty my passion for shmup lay dorment back then, as I didn't have a console back then I guess I sold my snes in 93 and briefly had a neo home system then nothing again until I got a PS.
As far as Sega is concerned with the Dreamcast, they fucked it up themselves, they had the market to themselves for like 1-2 years. What did they do? I tell you. They did nothing. The sponsored some English soccer team, that must've cost them gazillions. Even after the DC was dead they still wore the name, and nobody knew what Dreamcast was, nobody cared, would you?
I bet Sony shit in their pants when the DC was released. And true. I estimate the PS2 is roughly about 1,5 as powerfull as a DC. If another console by Sega came out when the PS2 was released it would've been more powerful than the PS2
Microsoft sucks period.
I have to say I don't like mac that much either there's just about a tenth of the options in OSX, but it's stable, but over priced.
Since this topic is all mixed up I'll go with this:

1 Sega
2 Sony
3 Apple
4 Microsoft

Nintendo has been irrelevant since SNES
Then again let's look on the bright side:.....
I don't understand the SONY hate either, it's just marketing. Lying = marketing. The media are just a bunch of weeners because if they are to harsh against companies, they will maybe affraid to talk to them again and there go their stories/jobs/house/wife.
Everything is just connected.
Good thing we got each other to stay informed etc.
God I love this forum don't you?

[dave4shmups]

Lately, I like Microsoft a lot better, because of the fact that they give a crap about casual/traditional games, as evidenced by XBLA. The 360 is, IMO, the best example of a console that combines traditional and next gen gaming since the Dreamcast.

I love the PS1 and the PS2, but Sony is going in the WRONG direction witn the PS3. The market isn't ready for Blu-Ray, and the Cell processor is much harder to program for then the 360's architecture.

Microsoft are integrating the 360 with Vista, and I think it would be great to have a PC with Vista, with a 360 right next to it. PC monitors are HD anyway, and you can use the 360 controller even to naviagate Vista, not to mention play what is already adding up to quite a gameing library, on it. Perfect!

And I love Peter Moore's answer to G4's question last night regarding the criticism that Microsoft has taken over making the HD DVD Player an add-on: "It's about games." AMEN! I'm not denying that Microsoft have, or are continuing to play dirty, but right now I'm just a little more concerned about other companies doing so, like maybe the entire oil industry.

A side note, arcade gaming is not dying in Japan. Just get on a website of a Japanese game company, like Taito, and they've got arcades on vitually every island of Japan. There are tons more then there are out here in the US.

[Kron]

Lately, I like Microsoft a lot better, because of the fact that they give a crap about casual/traditional games, as evidenced by XBLA. The 360 is, IMO, the best example of a console that combines traditional and next gen gaming since the Dreamcast.

You must be joking.

Microsoft couldn't give two craps for tradition, They've put themselves in an irreversable situation in Japan as they are unable to give the Japanese any worthwhile games and keep bombarding the system with first person shooters aimed at their core teenage American demographic.

Xbox Live Arcade is nothing but a payday for large developers, What happened to the promise that small and indie developers would have a market on Live Arcade to showcase new titles? Everything chosen so far has been done to improve the profile of the system via the media.

At E3 half of the games shown were FMV and of the 30ish titles on the showfloor in video/playable 22 were first person shooter variants.

Look at what they've done to the Shadowrun license, A complete lack of ideas has resulted in one of the most well developed story driven adventure titles being turned into a thoughless counterstrike clone.

The system is a one trick pony and Microsoft are making gaming a totally insular experience for their users.

[Super Laydock]

Both Gates and Katuragi deserve a pie in the face. Methinks people are grumbling at Sony instead of MS because, to the best of my knowledge, only the latter, to date, has received his pie.

Brussels welcomes Bill, still waiting for Ken!

[sethsez]

In the long run, that pretty much ruined the Dreamcast's chances: it was just so wimpy in comparison!

Sega's piss-poor management killed the Dreamcast. A stiff breeze would have pushed them into the grave with the financial situation they were in and how upper management was dealing with it.

And the topic of this thread is amusing. Why don't people hate Microsoft? That's an absolutely baffling series of words to me, knowing a bunch of Mac and Linux geeks. But nevertheless, people don't hate Microsoft because they're giving gamers what they want, are improving functionality in reasonable and worthwhile ways, and aren't trying to push crap we never asked for on us. They're making rock-solid gaming machines in which just about every advance (Xbox Live being the big one) has a noticeable impact on gameplay. Nothing gigantic or inspiring, just solid machines with a singular purpose that do what they're designed to do very well.

Comparitively, Sony's off in their own little world trying to build a machine that'll cram Blu-Ray into every home for a price that most people don't want to pay. The hubris is obnoxious.

I'm not bitter at Sony, they introduced marketing to the game.

No they didn't. Nintendo and Sega had been going at it for years with bullshit tech claims (have you people really forgotten blast processing already?) and "I'm cooler than you" pissing contests long before Sony entered the picture. Hell, it was happening what Atari ruled the roost. Sony just did it better.

[MSZ]

Lately, I like Microsoft a lot better, because of the fact that they give a crap about casual/traditional games, as evidenced by XBLA. The 360 is, IMO, the best example of a console that combines traditional and next gen gaming since the Dreamcast.

You must be joking.

Microsoft couldn't give two craps for tradition, They've put themselves in an irreversable situation in Japan as they are unable to give the Japanese any worthwhile games and keep bombarding the system with first person shooters aimed at their core teenage American demographic.

Finally someone on this board knows what he is talking about.

360 is all about FPS games, Halo this Halo that...and I'm so damn glad to see them failed completely in the Japanese market.

For a guy like me who only cares about Japanese game... Sony > MS.

[sethsez]

Finally someone on this board knows what he is talking about.

360 is all about FPS games, Halo this Halo that...and I'm so damn glad to see them failed completely in the Japanese market.

For a guy like me who only cares about Japanese game... Sony > MS.

Yeah, fuck Forza, Oblivion, Dead or Alive 4, PGR3, Geometry Wars 2, Ridge Racer 6, Kameo, Viva Pinata, The Outfit, Virtua Tennis 3, Too Human, Blue Dragon, etc. It's all FPS. Yep, finally someone knows what they're talking about.



Yes, it has a lot of FPS (though the PS3 is looking to get just as many). But saying it's all FPS is stupid. Hell, right now the biggest game currently on the system is Oblivion, an RPG.

[system11]

Finally someone on this board knows what he is talking about.

360 is all about FPS games, Halo this Halo that...and I'm so damn glad to see them failed completely in the Japanese market.

For a guy like me who only cares about Japanese game... Sony > MS.

So you're saying that Sony machines are better for narrow minded people?

I have quite a few 360 games, 12 or so. Three of them are FPS. If you discount Japan, the PS3 and Xbox 360 lineups will be incredibly similar, again. And why isn't the Xbox 360 selling in Japan? That's easy - it's not made by Japanese people, it's made by a big American company, and Japanese gamers don't like that. Additionally Microsoft appear to have invested very little in publicity there, or invested it in the wrong places. If they want to sell there, they need to release a WHOLE FUCKING STACK of cloned RPGs, judging by the Japanese top 100 games list.

Japan isn't sacred, their mass gaming market is just as broken as ours, but in different directions. It's not like Microsoft are going to taint them all and Cave will switch to making FPS.

[Rob]

Are games like Dead or Alive 4 really worth acknowledging? Just curious.

[Specineff]

At least MS hasn't promised Toy-story-like graphics in your TV, or shown a browser interface and crap that never got delivered. Their online service does what they said it would.

Minidisc users like me have been pretty much screwed when it came to transfers, downloads and such. We had to use Sony's proprietary codec ATRAC only, with their software which was designed by a retarded blind double amputee monkey, and it was full of DRM crap. Then the Ipod came and Sony got their act together with no-question uploads or downloads, no trashed recordings, and a stable interface, but they had to eat some humble pie first. Apple pie, if you know what I mean.

Sony has become arrogant, rather than innovative and concise. Proof? They expect Johnny Gamer to buy their basic machine for 500 dollars, even though MS and Nintendo could seriously crush them. And trying to force BRay discs down our throats via the PS3 is nothing but an opium-induced dream.

It's payback time, bitches.