Do the extron interfaces work with RGBS from a snes/genesis?

[oldgamer]

I tried having the console's signal go through the extron units for the processing, but it does not work, the image behaves very oddly.

The extrons should work, as they are being fed composite sync, but don't.

Individually, every device and dongle work perfectly, everything was tested. The extrons take S sync normally, as PC vga rgbhv-> extron rgbhv/Gs/S -> extron works.

snes/genesis 2 scart rgbs -> extron 192v/203rxi -> vga to component does not work.

snes/genesis 2 scart rgbs -> scart to component works perfectly normal.

Looks like there is something a little off in the console's sync signal.

What can I do here?

[FinalBaton]

snes/genesis 2 scart rgbs -> extron 192v/203rxi -> vga to component does not work.

right here you're sending RGBS into a device that expects RGBHV (''vga to component'')

[Fudoh]

You need clean sync and you usually need TTL level sync, but in general: yes, it can work, but it's hardly worth the effort.

[oldgamer]

snes/genesis 2 scart rgbs -> extron 192v/203rxi -> vga to component does not work.

right here you're sending RGBS into a device that expects RGBHV (''vga to component'')

Which device do you say expects rgbhv?

The extrons do support rgbs.

The vga to component device supports all of hv, RGsB and S, it works with everyone of these coming from pc rgbhv->extron. However, trying to go SNES rgbs into it, it gives odd behavior for the image as well.

[oldgamer]

You need clean sync and you usually need TTL level sync, but in general: yes, it can work, but it's hardly worth the effort.

Is clean sync an exact synonym for composite sync?

My scart cables are wired for RGBS (rather than having sync extracted from composite video).

[strayan]

You need clean sync and you usually need TTL level sync, but in general: yes, it can work, but it's hardly worth the effort.

Is clean sync an exact synonym for composite sync?

My scart cables are wired for RGBS (rather than having sync extracted from composite video).

I think what the Fudohmeister is saying is that you require TTL and not attenuated CSYNC. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Edit: looks like snes and genesis both output TTL level sync. Are you sure you’ve got the right cables? https://www.retrorgb.com/csync.html

[oldgamer]

You need clean sync and you usually need TTL level sync, but in general: yes, it can work, but it's hardly worth the effort.

Is clean sync an exact synonym for composite sync?

My scart cables are wired for RGBS (rather than having sync extracted from composite video).

I think what the Fudohmeister is saying is that you require TTL and not attenuated CSYNC. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Edit: looks like snes and genesis both output TTL level sync. Are you sure you’ve got the right cables? https://www.retrorgb.com/csync.html

I think my cables are not attenuated. The price I have paid for than is less them those that have the resistors and capacitors in a PCB thing. Also my snes is 1chip, and gives that brighter than supposed to image, which means (probably) that the cable is not attenuated.

[FinalBaton]

I was speaking of the vga-component transoder, yes. I didn't know it accepted RGBS, I assumed that like most of them it only accepts RGBHV.

Probably sync level then, yeah. Extron spits out TTL level sync. Which is accepted by most pro monitors. But transcoders? I'm not so sure.

[oldgamer]

I was speaking of the vga-component transoder, yes. I didn't know it accepted RGBS, I assumed that like most of them it only accepts RGBHV.

Probably sync level then, yeah. Extron spits out TTL level sync. Which is accepted by most pro monitors. But transcoders? I'm not so sure.

But the vga-to-component works when I do pc rgbhv -> extron hv/Gs/S -> vga-to-component. It's only when the source to the extron is the console (instead of pc) that I get odd image.

I think there might be something off spec about the consoles sync signal (other than the level, or in addition to it) that the extron does not like. But don't have the knowledge in electronics to figure it out myself.

[FinalBaton]

Good guess, yeah.

I know that some people have problem with connecting a Genesis to a certain BVM model, due to sync timings

And also that SNES can exhibit jitter or image curving in upper edge, also due to sync I think? although it could be crystal frequency (yeah that's probably it)


I know that on my 2 RGB monitors (and all previous ones I had), I never had a problem hooking up SNES and Gennesis to an Extron interface and then to the monitor.

[oldgamer]

Good guess, yeah.
...
I know that on my 2 RGB monitors (and all previous ones I had), I never had a problem hooking up SNES and Gennesis to an Extron interface and then to the monitor.

Are your snes and genesis ntsc ones?
What were your cables like? raw sync, sync extracted from composite video, etc.

Which Extron interface model do you use? I've tried both of 192v and 203rxi and both behave similarly, i.e. don't work.

[Guspaz]

Wouldn't it be easier to just use the HD Retrovision component cables? It's a heck of a lot less convoluted than what you're trying to do if you're just going to convert to component in the end.

[FinalBaton]

Are you sure that your vga to component transcoder accepts TTL level sync? maybe it expects attenuated sync



Also : Do you have something like a PVM to test your chain without the converter? as in :

snes/genesis 2 scart rgbs -> extron 192v/203rxi -> pvm

That would tell you wheter the extron interface works or not. and if it does, it'd leave as the only culprit : compatibility between extron interface and your converter.

[oldgamer]

Wouldn't it be easier to just use the HD Retrovision component cables? It's a heck of a lot less convoluted than what you're trying to do if you're just going to convert to component in the end.

It's mostly because the extron gives you control over things like positioning, level, etc.

Also I already have a scart -> component thing which already works for the consoles, but my plan was to have the extron controlling the image first, and only then going to the rgb -> component transcoder.

[oldgamer]

Are you sure that your vga to component transcoder accepts TTL level sync? maybe it expects attenuated sync

It does work as it already works with the extron when using other sources (native vga from pc, digital-to-vga dongle) it's just the consoles that don't.

Also : Do you have something like a PVM to test your chain without the converter? as in :

snes/genesis 2 scart rgbs -> extron 192v/203rxi -> pvm

That would tell you wheter the extron interface works or not. and if it does, it'd leave as the only culprit : compatibility between extron interface and your converter.

No, unfortunately don't have a pvm to know for sure. The converter already works with the converter, but when the source are the consoles it doesn't work.

But this is something that should just work, especially now that you've told me yours worked without problems. I'm annoyed it doesn't.

[strayan]

What are you using to connect the SCART cable to the Extron RGB interface?

[Fudoh]

The 203 interface has an info display on its front. Do you get the correct info (15.xx khz) on front when connecting your source? There's hardly any function difference between the 203 and the 192 and the status screen on the 203 makes it's easier to pinpoint your problem.

For any adapter from or to Scart remember that all those only work in a single direction.

When you say that your cables are not attenuated, but are indeed wired to use the csync output of the systems, this is a bit hard to believe. Who would sell those cables? After all these would be prone to damage the sink device as scart per definition is not supposed to carry TTL sync levels. And if - on the other hand - you're only using sink that are made to operate with TTL level sync, you'd hardly choose a cable with a scart switch.

This thread basically covers the solution to your problem:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66639

[oldgamer]

What are you using to connect the SCART cable to the Extron RGB interface?

I'm using a dongle that has male scart to rca, and the rca cable connected to a vga-to-BNC dongle, with bnc to rca female.

The dongle is connected to the consoles with a female-female coupler.

The whole scheme is this:

console scart rgbs -> f-f coupler -> scart to rca ->rca cables -> bnc to vga dongle -> extron.

I know the scart-rca dongle is working because I have two of these and tested them doing console->f-f coupler -> scart-rca->rca cables->scart-rca->scart-to-component transcoder, and this works.

This is the scart to rca dongle I'm using.

[oldgamer]

The 203 interface has an info display on its front. Do you get the correct info (15.xx khz) on front when connecting your source? ...

For me it the 203rxi shows "NO SIGNAL" on the info display when I connect the console to it.

When you say that your cables are not attenuated, but are indeed wired to use the csync output of the systems, this is a bit hard to believe. Who would sell those cables? After all these would be prone to damage the sink device as scart per definition is not supposed to carry TTL sync levels. And if - on the other hand - you're only using sink that are made to operate with TTL level sync, you'd hardly choose a cable with a scart switch.

I think you might be right here, it seems my cable is attenuated, at least the csync line. I tried to measure 5v on pin 20 of the scart cable from the snes, but my multimeter tells me 0.07 volts. Don't know if that's right, because it seems low.

This thread basically covers the solution to your problem:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66639

Indeed in that thread OP's problem was low level on csync line. I'll try getting the components and building it, then I'll update the thread.