How do you feel about the digital only future of consoles?

[Seraphic]

We saw the first signs of this with Microsoft to a certain extent with mandatory system online requirements and 24-Hour validation checks last generation with their Xbox One before they backed down (partly due to Sony ragging on them in that famous video). Later on, Microsoft released a Xbox One S All-Digital Edition to mostly negative reviews and low sales from what I can gather. Now we have Sony who last generation was Pro-Disc releasing not only a traditional PlayStation 5 but now releasing a Digital Edition PlayStation 5 right from the get go. So it is coming and by next generation the PS6/XB4 might both only come without a disc drive.

My view is I am not happy about it as you will no longer own your games and you will lose the ability to resell/trade your games. Sony/Microsoft allow refunding of games under very limited conditions (i.e never downloaded it or never played it with 14 days of release, or played it for less then two hours) but that's about it. Nintendo on the other hand tells you to Go Pound Sand. Never happened to me, but one thing I read about that happens a lot is the account on their console gets hacked (no 2FA) and makes a bunch of purchases with your payment information and you perform a charge back, Sony/Microsoft with ban your account and you lose your entire game library we no recourse. But my main concern is this:

See this game?: https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/t ... ld-switch/
Release Date: March 3, 2017
Price: $59.99

Or this: https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/m ... xe-switch/
Release Date: April 27, 2017
Price? Still $59.99

Games being full price FOREVER. Don't like it? Oh well. The used game market is gone and games no longer slowly drop in price over time.
It is all about the $$$$ now. No longer will the cost of physical disc manufacturing be needed and no longer with Sony/Microsoft and the Game Developer need to split part of the money pie with game retail stores.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Fudoh]

excellent. I'm voting for it, by all means. And I'm saying this while loving physical media. I consider it to be liberating though. It's liberating us from a terribly perverted collector's market. Considering that I have physical game media stretching 35 years of video game history, I welcome any chance to end all this.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I won't be buying new consoles with no physical media. Wouldn't be the worst thing though, for the reasons fudoh stated like not collecting it. I'd still play new games just pc all the way.

[ASDR]

It's a terrible thing for consumers. For the last few years certain systems like 360, PSP are dirt cheap and I bought dozens of games for <5EUR shipped. Some of the best games on that platform. The same games that are now being sold in the form of lazy 'remasters' for full price. Without a used games market there's little incentive to ever lower prices. Just look at all the amazing PS4 games you can buy for 10-20EUR now. Will that ever happen on PS5? And then there's all the uncertainty of digital stores. Will something go wrong with 2FA authentication, will my account get hacked, will they ban me for some ToS violation, will games be removed from the service, when will it all get shut down? There's a real chance I'd get locked out of a 4-figures games library with no recourse. Issues like moving to a different country and migrating account regions etc. Like XKCD said (https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/steal_this_comic.png), with digital you'll need to pirate it in the end to actually own it. Losing physical also means you can no longer lent somebody a game or sell it. Plus, I like having physical media. I don't want a completely empty games room.

Digital games would need to be way, way cheaper to make this even remotely attractive. You can't sell me a download tied to my account for more than it would cost to get a disc shipped from Amazon.

The worst is that I think ultimately companies would prefer to move to a subscription model like Netflix/Spotify/Stadia etc. This removes even what little ownership you had left. They can just end the service at any time, increase the price, drop titles etc. Today you can play a game, tomorrow it's gone from the service, a few years later your hardware is no longer supported and it's a brick.

excellent. I'm voting for it, by all means. And I'm saying this while loving physical media. I consider it to be liberating though. It's liberating us from a terribly perverted collector's market. Considering that I have physical game media stretching 35 years of video game history, I welcome any chance to end all this.

By the time there is a "perverted collector's market" you have seen at least a decade of steady price drops. By the time games get rare digital storefronts will be shut down, licenses for things like music have expired, online services shut down. You likely won't be able to buy these games digitally by the time they are at collector's prices on eBay. And your own 'collection' of games will be worthless as they're tied to some account/machine. Can't sell them, can't give them to kids/friends, likely can't play them anymore as some DRM server went offline etc.

I don't get why you're excited for this. It only gives you less options and drives up prices. It's something the game industry has been trying to do for a long time because depriving you of a secondary market means you have to pay them what they ask when you want entertainment. There's no more alternatives like old/used games.

[pegboy]

I won't be buying any new consoles ever anyway, so it's no big deal to me. Havem't bought a console since the PS2 and honestly other than maybe 2 or 3 games at most it hasn't bothered me one bit. Modern "Gaming" is a total joke and a waste anyway.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Modern "Gaming" is a total joke and a waste anyway.

No, it's just not something you enjoy. There is a difference. Not everyone plays games for the same reasons.

There are lots of modern/new games with old sensibilities anyway, so unless you only like specific shmups there is pretty much something for everyone. Not everything is the AAA blockbuster cinema where you press x a few times.

[XtraSmiley]

Eh, it's inevitable and I think you're being hyperbolic. PS4 and XBO stuff goes on sale all the time digitally. Hell, I'm sick of getting Days of Play, PS Days, whatever sale emails.

Nintendo rarely goes on sale, physical or not.

Companies don't see a penny from used games, just shitty Gamestop, so there is that.

The only real negative going forward I think is that people who don't have a lot of bandwidth, or pay a lot for it get screwed.

Again, it's probably the future and the evolution of game delivery.

There are currently more games in the world than any human can possibly have time to play. It's not really that big a deal. As poster said above, you could play just up to PS2 and be fine.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Eh, it's inevitable and I think you're being hyperbolic. PS4 and XBO stuff goes on sale all the time digitally. Hell, I'm sick of getting Days of Play, PS Days, whatever sale emails.

Nintendo rarely goes on sale, physical or not.

This is very true. For reference, right now, BotW is $55 and MK8 Switch is $60 new for physical copies right now. Nintendo protects their prices by not devaluing their product. They know they are worth it, so it is what it is.

The only real negative going forward I think is that people who don't have a lot of bandwidth, or pay a lot for it get screwed.

Again, it's probably the future and the evolution of game delivery.

There are currently more games in the world than any human can possibly have time to play. It's not really that big a deal. As poster said above, you could play just up to PS2 and be fine.

This is a problem for me right now, and I have the best internet option I can pay for. Hopefully as we approach everything being digital that situation improves. Not moving as the house is paid off.

As for the last point, quite easily. I've played a mix this year, but mostly PS4 and PS1. Last year I binged on Famicom and Dreamcast. There has really never been a better time to be into video games.

[XtraSmiley]

I do want to add, that limiting the consumer choice DOES suck though, but I think we are screwed. Those of us here (enthusiast) can buy or not buy, we won't really have an impact. The masses drive these decisions.

[BONKERS]

excellent. I'm voting for it, by all means. And I'm saying this while loving physical media. I consider it to be liberating though. It's liberating us from a terribly perverted collector's market. Considering that I have physical game media stretching 35 years of video game history, I welcome any chance to end all this.

This exactly.
Having been doing digital only on PC for 13 years, I likewise find it liberating. The least of which is prices and sales.
Things that are not great though however is not having any kind of user customization of how their digital library looks. Not many launchers have this and it's a big negative.
Steam recently took 1 step forward by changing their library to accommodate custom grouping easier. But they completely removed theming support for Steam's UI (There used to be some amazing skins for Steam) and removed the Grid View option. (And added ugly cumbersome vertical art instead. With no choice to use what you like) Which made it a lot worse to use in my eyes. (Here's what my Steam Library looked like before Valve nuked everything https://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/steamlibrary2.jpg) But even at Steam's worst it's leagues ahead of how awful it is on consoles. And there are alternative launchers you can get to manage and customize your library all in one application.
Such as Playnite https://playnite.link/, playnite is great. However it's long tedious work (But worth it. I do one letter at a time heh)to transfer all of my old Steam grid icons over the playnite in addition to making new ones for all my other digital libraries that are now in one launcher and organized the way I like unified into one launcher that I can tailor to my preferences.

If companies like Sony want digital only to be an option they have a ton of work to do on displaying and managing your digital library. Up until this point all 3 of the major players have been really bad at this in the console space. Your library is front an center on PC stores like GOG, Steam,Origin and Amazon Games Launcher. (Others like the EGS,Uplay are not good)
This is why I have largely not bought many digital games on consoles. Because they treat your purchase like an afterthought, especially so on Nintendo Platforms. That or you have to keep them installed or good luck digging through the poorly designed storefronts to find your existing libraries. (Or in the case of Microsoft it seems like every time you turn around they are changing their UI)

The best part of digital is the availability and none of the grey area of the 2nd hand market. You can buy legal copies of several Mega Drive games and play the rom in the emulator of your choosing. Not all emulated releases sadly give you a clean rom to archive for your own purposes but it would be nice if more did. Unless the game is delisted, it's always available and guaranteed to be on sale for cheap if price is an issue at some point or another. (Unless you have a stingy company selling the games, always asking full 60$ retail price for subpar ports and when they do go on sale it's paltry)
Your games stick with you when you get new hardware, so the value proposition is very high. If consoles keep compatibility at this point going forward and do the same thing, that'd be great.


I can't count how many older physical games I used to own when I was younger that were cheap and now are so expensive I can't justify spending 100$ or more because of "Collectors".

[Guspaz]

In general, I'm in favour of digital downloads, as I went pretty much digital-only on PC many years ago. But when it comes to console, it's a matter of trust. The only current console I actively play is the Switch, and I just don't trust Nintendo to maintain this stuff long-term. Nintendo has already shut down their digital download services in some parts of the world for the Wii U and 3DS. Anything older than that already shut down globally. If your console dies or is stolen and you get a replacement, and they've already shut down the services, your games are gone forever.

Meanwhile, I can go onto Steam today and install a game that I bought in 2004, no problems. Stuff that I bought on Steam when the latest consoles from Nintendo were the GameCube and Game Boy Advance.

[shroom2k]

With modern style of games, where you constantly get updates and the version that comes on-disk is barely playable, I'm all for digital distribution. I don't resell games, and I don't collect them on disks, which are very prone to degradation and damage.

[Konsolkongen]

Discs only gets damaged if you don't handle them properly. This should be a non issue.

I hate the idea of digital only, for many of the reasons already mentioned here. I hate having stuff tied to an online account, having to reset passwords when some asshole bot has tried to get access, and who knows how long the platform holders will keep supporting their old library by keeping servers up and running? I can see the PS3 and 360 servers shutting down in the near future, because how many sales will they realistically get on those platforms anymore? Not to mention the insane amount of games getting delisted and not available for purchase any longer. Didn't buy the game when it was available? Well tough shit, it's gone forever:
https://delistedgames.com/all-delisted- ... n-3-games/

In Denmark you can get every game at least 20-25% cheaper on release day on physical media compared to their digital prices. I would actually gladly pay 20-25% MORE to have my games physically and not having to deal with account hassle and whatnot, but there you go. Until recently it was also faster for me to just order the game and have it delivered in my mailbox the next day, compared to waiting on the game to download, and meanwhile having my internet rendered completely useless for everything else.

I cannot even begin to imagine how much power is wasted on a global scale on consoles and PCs just sitting around doing nothing while users are waiting for their games to finish downloading. Sure there are install times with physical discs as well, but at least it doesn't rely on massive servers to feed you the data.

[kitty666cats]

I stopped caring about physical copies of games a very very very long time ago - even before I sold all my physical games in 2008, I was never one to display them on cabinets all neat 'n gloaty & shit. Had like 110 NES carts, they were all in a large plastic recycling bin.

Bring on the digital copies, I say, but keep VERY well-implemented measures in place so people can keep access to them - I'm sure many people out there have made 'one wrong move' on, let's say, their old Xbox360s - leading to losing (let's say, again) their digital copies of shit like Scott Pilgrim, TMNT, Simpsons Arcade, etc...

Or they've simply had other console issues, completely out of their hands, leading to their permanent loss of games such as those. Stuff that's an 'act of god', like a power outage frying something. I don't think that's fair.

[Josh128]

Games being full price FOREVER. Don't like it? Oh well. The used game market is gone and games no longer slowly drop in price over time.
It is all about the $$$$ now. No longer will the cost of physical disc manufacturing be needed and no longer with Sony/Microsoft and the Game Developer need to split part of the money pie with game retail stores.

What are your thoughts on this?

I certainly disagree with this assertion. They wont be full price forever. They already havent been for a long time now. Just look at Steam. If consoles go full on "no physical media", which they likely will at some point, companies can afford to sell them for less and when demand drops off for older games, they almost certainly will at some point.

[jeffez]

It seems great for the publishers.
No used market means they control the pricing and continue making money even as the game ages. Can you imagine what Nintendo will be like when they are no longer burdened by the second hand market?
No manufacturing and distribution costs. Digital versions generally cost the same as physical.
Sooner or later allot of older games will get taken down due to licensing etc we are seeing that with the xbox 360 and ps3.

[RIP-Felix]

Eh, it's inevitable and I think you're being hyperbolic. PS4 and XBO stuff goes on sale all the time digitally. Hell, I'm sick of getting Days of Play, PS Days, whatever sale emails.

Nintendo rarely goes on sale, physical or not.

This is very true. For reference, right now, BotW is $55 and MK8 Switch is $60 new for physical copies right now. Nintendo protects their prices by not devaluing their product. They know they are worth it, so it is what it is.

It's supply and demand. The demand is still high, so Nintendo has no reason to lower prices. Same for Gamestop, they can get away with selling a used switch game for $5 less than new, because the demand is high. Once the market is saturated with switches and games, the prices will drop. Even in an all digital market.

The pessimist in me says:
Why would I sell a house when I can rent it out, own it's equity, and get paid forever? Make everyone lease a game and you retain all of it's equity. If SONY, for example, sells physical copies, it creates a commodity that can be traded on the free market, which competes with them once the market become saturated. Things that contribute to market saturation, #1 physical copies. When a person gets tired of a game they trade it for another, on ebay, with a friend, or used game store. Why sell ownership, give away equity, create a secondary market that competes against you? Instead, protect your IP through encryption and DRM. Second, setup digital distribution to cut out retailers. Third, promote digital distribution by diluting IP with DLC content. During the adoption period, double dip by selling definitive copies with DLC packs included. Finally, phase out all physical media. Proponents say there will be no used game market to dilute profits for 1st & 3rd party game companies. By cutting retailers and collectors out of the market (vulturous scourge), profits would instead incentivize them to take bigger risks - like unique games with unproven formulas for success.

But the Realist in me wonders:
Is it greed or the desire to overcome technology limitations of physical media that's pushing digital? I don't like it either, but the gaming industry is moving in a direction that will be very expensive to deliver physically. As games get bigger than physical media can affordably store, can consumers reasonably expect the gaming industry not to go digital? Would you buy a game that cost $100+ each, which had to be on an SSD to fit and be fast enough? Or would you prefer loading zones and laser disc sized Blu-rays?

I will be interested to see if Nintendo's next console will take this path. They chose cartridge based media again with the switch, for design reasons over profit. I get the idea they're feeling out consumer reaction to digital distribution before fully committing. They at least, have consistently prioritized games and console design over other considerations. If they choose to go all digital, then that's the final nail IMO.

[Dochartaigh]

when it comes to console, it's a matter of trust. The only current console I actively play is the Switch, and I just don't trust Nintendo to maintain this stuff long-term. Nintendo has already shut down their digital download services in some parts of the world for the Wii U and 3DS. Anything older than that already shut down globally. If your console dies or is stolen and you get a replacement, and they've already shut down the services, your games are gone forever.

Adding to this, when games go totally digital is this going to be the end of gaming on older consoles then? Will 'retro gaming' no longer exist for multiple generations of hardware? When a console is no longer supported through being able to download a game (i.e. the servers shut down), and/or the newest version of the console can't run games from the last gen, or the gen before, or the gen before that, are those games then lost forever? (unless you resort to illegal means?)

For a couple examples: of the ~1,000 Original Xbox games, less than half were backwards-compatible on the Xbox 360. Only 39 of those Original Xbox games could be played on the Xbox One (and this will probably be less, if any at all, on the new Xbox Series X). If those games didn't exist in physical form (and you weren't willing to pirate), they would be lost for all time. I don't see this getting better as recent history has already shown otherwise.

Even our hardware – our TV's – are loosing the ability to even hook up these older consoles. My last three TV's haven't had S-Video or component inputs, and I need a special 3.5mm dongle to even use composite. We all know there's upscalers, but still... how many connection types are they going to have to work with in 20, 30, 50 years from now?

Even last generation we've ALREADY lost some games that cannot be played through any legal means. Scott Pilgrim vs the World for example (if nothing has changed lately). Digital only game for Xbox 360 if my memory serves (and a fun little beat-em-up). You can no longer download it, can no longer play it on any platform (and it took me over a year to find a working copy for my hacked Xbox 360 even!).

For this current generation (and I could be totally off here), but some games won't even install without an internet connection, even if you have the physical disc, right? There's a whole bunch of games that don't even have single player campaigns and you have to be online to play.... so what's going to happen when those servers go down? LOTS of gaming history is going to be lost and become unplayable (again, unless you want to go to illegal means... which the hackers very well might save us in this regard).

[RIP-Felix]

I suspect that consoles will become the same e-waste that PCs are. You upgrade your hardware, migrate your game library, and recycle the old hardware. Why keep it unless there's something it can do that that new one can't? This assumes that console gaming in the digital era is forward compatible like it has been in the PC world.

I had the same dilemma with my PS1 when I got the PS2. Again with the PS3. The only reason I keep the PS2 is because my backwards compatible PS3 is prone to the YLOD. I'm not sure why I kept my PS1, hoarding?

[Taiyaki]

I will never support digital only. I'm sure there are enough who feel like me that gaming will most likely always offer a physical alternative, it might get more expensive as they try to phase us out, but my guess is roughly 25% is solid physical audience.

Someday people in the future will thank us, because when servers and digital downloads go down, games will be accessible to those with the means to acquire them thanks to those who preserved physical copies.

[pablumatic]

Digital-only, at least in its current form, is anti-consumer. You can't resell any game you bought which hurts lower income gamers. Plus there's the inevitability of game delisting and entire platforms disappearing like the Nintendo Wii Shop.

That said I do purchase digital games and can deal with digital-only for modern consoles if need be.

Since digital is so ephemeral, and expensive for consoles, I use sites like dekudeals.com and psprices.com to be alerted for price drops. No digital game is worth new physical prices to me. Especially when they can be ripped away from you at the whim of the publisher. 70% off or so and I can deal with a digital copy much easier and I would hope everybody would treat digital the same way and hold off for sales.

[headlesshobbs]

For digital to work, two things will have to change...

1. Licenses will have to refer to "FULL OWNERSHIP" of a title, not something that can be yanked from access at any time and without any prior notice.
2. Games that have licenses should quit being biased on a time frame and have an all time availability. Once listed, forever available.

Also there's the problem with how physical has many ranges in prices vs the single digital store that can dictate whether a game gets a discount or not. Online should really branch out to deals with store retailers to offer better deals just like we currently have our merchandise doing now. Once physical is gone, there's not going to be any safety net against locking $60+ per title and this ain't like we're dealing with the Steam store front. Nintendo's greedy as @#%$! Sony and M$ may be right up their alley and some publishers never come down even once!

[ASDR]

Right now we're already at the point where on Switch many games don't have a physical release, quite a few had a code-in-box release, many require a download since the complete game is not on the card and many if not most ship with severe performance, stability and balancing issues and basically require a patch. Pirates will preserve fully patched copies and that'll be our only option when the store is shut down. Better start working on that EDP5 Krikzz!

The nightmare scenario is something like Stadia exclusive games. If we never even have a copy of the game, it'll be impossible to preserve. Maybe by then something like this https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2020/05/2 ... niversary/ will be good enough for modern games

I don't think console vendors have any interest in improving much on their current policies and systems. Most consumers see games as disposable, play them for a week and forget about them. Long term it'll likely go to a subscription model like music and movies has. Companies like this because a predictable, recurring income is so much easier to work with than the hit & release driven nature of AAA video games where a 2 week delay or a bad metacritic score can make the difference between a record quarter and your stock tanking.

[cools]

I prefer physical media for the romance of it.

Most things I've moved to digital only I barely get any value from. Example: music. I have no physical media any longer, I ripped everything a long time ago. That music rarely gets listened to - I have an inexhaustible supply of mixed music podcasts for on the go/at home. The only place I'll listen to the same thing and genuinely get to know is in a car where I've either got an MP3 CD with a couple of albums on, or a USB stick with a few more- a restricted supply.

Actually bought some digital music recently. It was from an artist I like, offering 10 albums at a quid an album, DRM free. He also does a weekly podcast I've enjoyed for years. Have I ever just sent him some cash to say thanks? No. Have I listened to all of the stuff I bought? No. But the price and purpose was right.

Out of this generation I only have a Switch. I play whatever I have in the slot, and have to justify the effort in swapping whatever out to play something different.

If digital games were 1/5 the cost of physical, DRM free and had quibble free refunds... Maybe I'd be a bit more interested? As it is the physical holds an inherent value that can otherwise only be found in pirate copies.

Everything worth having always gets a physical release in the end anyway.

[fernan1234]

I have a hard time paying for pure digital software that I cannot really "own", especially full retail price.

I can say one thing: I don't enjoy modern games as much as older ones, so I'll only buy modern consoles from now on after there is an exploit available to install custom firmwares, run unsigned content, etc.

Though such thing may be less likely as security gets better on systems. The PS4 is still secure unless the console is in a very old firmware (and thus locked out of new game releases since that time), though that may change some time after the PS4 is replaced by the new system. Well, given history at least we can count on Nintendo's new systems to be more amenable to such practices

[Steamflogger Boss]

I certainly disagree with this assertion. They wont be full price forever. They already havent been for a long time now. Just look at Steam. If consoles go full on "no physical media", which they likely will at some point, companies can afford to sell them for less and when demand drops off for older games, they almost certainly will at some point.

Agree. These companies all know that they get more people in at various price points. All it takes is one look at steam and how the digital marketplace on PC has evolved. Yeah sure there are some shittier companies that don't discount their games much if at all but they are few and far between. Unsurprisingly I don't have many of their games though I do have a medium size GOG library.

I prefer physical media for the romance of it.

Out of this generation I only have a Switch. I play whatever I have in the slot, and have to justify the effort in swapping whatever out to play something different.

I like the physical act of putting in and/or switching games too. I'm not sure if it's helped me power through a game I otherwise wouldn't but I beat probably 99% of my clears on original or fpga hardware. All clears on emulation that I can remember were for some game of the month clubs where I didn't want to buy the game. Very small number.

[Sargon]

I have been all digital for several years and I would never go back to physical games. The last systems that I bought physical games for were Wii and Wii U, but my Switch, Xbox One, and PC libraries are all 100% digital.

One exception is for my 7-year old son, who just recently got his own Switch Lite. I am planning to buy him physical games, because I want him to feel the physical ownership and responsibility. I want him to understand that games don't just magically appear digitally and that there is a cost associated with them, which I think is easier to do with a physical product.

[tacoguy64]

Not a fan of not owning a game i bought. I know the advantages of going full digital but I want to just pop in a cart or disc and play without having to go online. That's still one of the biggest appeal of retro gaming for me and it wont change. Current gen systems already has too much of an online component to them, its part of the reason I don't play them as often.

I think this next gen could be the last one to do physical release. Lots of companies have been making moves towards streaming and digital only trends and i could see gaming follow suit.

[kamiboy]

The streaming only future worries me more.

[tjstogy]

I haven't purchased hardly any physical games for my XBONE but it's been a great blu ray player. Streaming isn't a 1:1 replacement for blu rays, and for that reason I would prefer a system that plays physical media.