E3 Discussion Thread

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Tue May 09, 2006 3:58 am

Man, I just gotta say this is pretty fascinating stuff! I've never actually paid attention to E3 stuff until weeks after, but I've been very curious for this one. The PS3 pricing seriously made my heart sink, thinking you have to shell out the $600 plus an extra controller and games.

Seriously, I think these companies are going the wrong way in trying to market game consoles as all in one boxes. I don't want anything I buy for that much money to become obsolete after only 5 years (see TV, stereo, etc), PLUS I have a computer that does all that the PS3 promises and then some which I have to replace and upgrade every so often anyway. Also, I bet if the HD on the PS3 goes bad, there's no way to back up the data easily, unlike a computer, so you lose all that you bought with your precious Playstation Bucks or whatever.

The more you hear about costs of these things, the more I think Nintendo's going the right way with its relatively cheap little console - and this is from a guy who isn't even the greatest fan of Nintendo by a country mile.

Edit: Dave4shmups, here's a link to a stream of the Sony video - it's very long, however: http://www.gamespot.com/e3/index.html

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:23 am

ahnslaught wrote:Man, I just gotta say this is pretty fascinating stuff! I've never actually paid attention to E3 stuff until weeks after, but I've been very curious for this one. The PS3 pricing seriously made my heart sink, thinking you have to shell out the $600 plus an extra controller and games.

Seriously, I think these companies are going the wrong way in trying to market game consoles as all in one boxes. I don't want anything I buy for that much money to become obsolete after only 5 years (see TV, stereo, etc), PLUS I have a computer that does all that the PS3 promises and then some which I have to replace and upgrade every so often anyway. Also, I bet if the HD on the PS3 goes bad, there's no way to back up the data easily, unlike a computer, so you lose all that you bought with your precious Playstation Bucks or whatever.

The more you hear about costs of these things, the more I think Nintendo's going the right way with its relatively cheap little console - and this is from a guy who isn't even the greatest fan of Nintendo by a country mile.

Edit: Dave4shmups, here's a link to a stream of the Sony video - it's very long, however: http://www.gamespot.com/e3/index.html

Thanks!

I dunno, according to what I read about SCE's Press Conference, they want the PS3 to last 10 years!

Really ticks me off that they didn't mention anything more about the PS3's region-free capabilities.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:33 am

I predict that in spite of the stupid name and weird controller, the Wii is going to PWN the PS3. Reason? Price alone. Perhaps it didn't matter much when it was Cube VS Box VS PS2. But 500 dollars for their system? And no Wi-FI and stuff? Is the console even upgradable like the 360? Screw that. And you know the reputation Sony's lasers have. *salutes Nazi-style* Heil Bill!

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:39 am

$250 for a brand new system is going to mean a lot to the parents come Xmas time...especially with Bush in the White House.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:45 am

"Are you tired of your systems costing more than 200 dollars?" "Do you remember the time when 300 dollars was enough to get your kids a console, another controller, and two games?" "Did you know Republicans like Lieberman have fought to make sure games don't get as easily into your hands?"

"As President, I will fight to make sure every american family can enjoy their violent multi-scrolling games every Christmas without breaking the bank."

"I'm John Kerry, and I approve of this message"

(Sorry, man. It was too good to pass up.)

UnscathedFlyingObject · Tue May 09, 2006 5:08 am

I really dunno about this. I see a lot of HS kids around here with PSPs and those cost an organ, considering it's a portable. People certainly have the cash to pay for a deluxe item if there's a compelling reason to own it. In the PSP's case it's "coolness" 'cause it can display l33t grafix teh rXor and play movies and all that. At least in NYC, the PSP is pwning the DS like 3 to 1, even though it costs more than twice more. You just gotta know how to advertise.

What about Ipods? The stupidly high priced music player (at least imo.) Those sell a ton.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:29 am

Something tells me that there are people celebrating in Redmond tonight, both at MS and Nintendo. The big story I'm seeing out of the Sony press briefing is very quickly turning into the price. Sure, they'll sell the initial shipments quickly to the diehard gamers, but beyond that they're going to have a much tougher sell to deal with at those price points. If the list of games shown off at the briefing is any indication, they seem to think they can keep going in the same direction they have when the competition is moving in other directions.

If they just tried to sell the PS3 on its merits they probably would have made a much better showing of things. Instead, they're trying to push 1080p (which requires a TV that currently costs $3,000 at the low end) and a controller which looks like they're ripping off the Wiimote whether that was the intent or not. The whole strategy seems very reactionary, which is a dangerous thing in a competitive market. And even at the $500/600 price point, the talk I've seen indicates they could still be selling at a signiificant loss (I've seen manufacturing cost figures of $800+ floating around for the PS3 hardware.)

I guess we'll have to see what happens, but the PS3 just might become the New Coke of consoles, especially if Blu-Ray bombs out the way UMD has. I'm pretty sure Sony isn't going anywhere, but this generation could definitely take them down a peg or two. This generation could very well become Nintendo's return to glory. As for my predictions, I was way off the mark, but was surprised to see how little attention was paid to the PSP in the press briefing. Sure they showed off the PS1 compatibility (sort of) but there wasn't much to see at all. I'm trying to be more fair to Sony (the PS2 is starting to approach the "get one when it's cheap and catch up on things" stage where I bought the DC and Gamecube) but this wasn't exactly the most impressive showing for the PS3.

...

In other E3 related news, I just downloaded and tried out the Test Drive Unlimited demo on XBL Marketplace, and it looks quite nice as a freeform racer (and I certainly wasn't expecting to start the demo and immediately see other player cars there. I'll have to mess with it some more (the demo crashed on me) but there's definitely some potential there. I look forward to seeing the Lost Planet demo tomorrow (that one has been on my radar for a while.)

Edit: In doing some further reading, it seems that adding the tilt support to the PS3 controller resulted in vibration being removed! Way to replace a widely used feature with a gimmick...

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:14 am

dave4shmups wrote:Anyone have a link to the Sony Press Conference video? I really wanna see what that controller looks like!

I'm afraid they've done it again: it looks practically identical to the Dual Shock 2. The only obvious differences are that the permanent lead is gone, to be replaced by a detachable plug-in lead, and that the lower two shoulder buttons are slightly larger (and analogue). But the main design concept is 'yet another Dual Shock', so I guess we'll be putting up with that 'two analogue sticks hastily bolted on in response to the Saturn and N64' design ethic for the third generation in a row.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:30 am

Yeah, I don't get Sony's love affair with the dual shock either. I'm sure this has been written plenty on the boards, but the analog sticks aren't nearly as good for FPS games as the xbox's, and almost every controller out there - even my $5 logitech pad for PC - has a better D pad, as the Dual Shock's is way too stiff. Well, at least they added some analog triggers instead of "analog buttons" this go-around, eh?

And while wireless is cool, it had better have replaceable rechargeable batteries (this goes for the Wii as well). Maybe it's just me and my cheapass self, but I'm just not big on having to replace things I already own, much less being stuck with only one manufacturer for stuff. It would suck for the folks who shell out wads of cash for the PS3 to get slapped with another $40 controller once their battery finally dies instead of being able to replace it with a $7 battery

Post by **system11** » Tue May 09, 2006 8:01 am

Many thoughts. Most prominent is that the procession of trailers was initially cool, but suddenly rammed home the message that it's back to the same old thing. Another Tiger Woods game. Another MGS. Another GT. I didn't expect anything else really, but to see it stacked up like that was quite depressing.

Machine is huge, doesn't bother me, looks nice, revamping the dualshock was a good thing (it's a good pad IMHO), couldn't care less about wireless, that really is pointless gimmickery - most people end up running 360 pads with the play&charge permanently plugged in, I imagine this will be no different. Nice to see no battery bulge though, that spoils the 360 pad in wireless version - noticeably heavier and less space for fingers.

Price is also huge, I think that's going to hurt them quite a bit. $200 more than their nearest rival, and that's assuming Microsoft don't cut their price when the PS3 hits, which they might well be able to do. Interesting to see it'll be a global rollout, and I look forward to seeing everyone whining at stock shortages. I still agree with global launches however, even if that does mean little Billy doesn't get his PS3 for Christmas.

The Sony execs actually managed to make me hate them more. "TRUE high def" indeed. "The next generation doesn't start until we say it does" - just shut the fuck up, PLEASE. Idiots. That bald guy constantly referencing magic (obviously coordinated dropping of the word) got old pretty fast.

I actually punched out halfway through the MGS trailer - only awake still as I'd been called by work. Only found out this morning about lack of rumble (I can't believe they won't just pay that royalty for use - so pigheaded, especially from a company who whines so much about intellectual property). Also found out about the motion sensor. Whatever. I don't want to have to keep my arms in one place to avoid causing movement. Dumb, couldn't care less about it.

If the PS3 gets shmup ports, I will buy one (and face a huge shipping charge as it's 5kg). Otherwise - well, all bets are off - I just don't care anymore, they managed to make Microsoft look innovative, and that's a shameful achievement.

UnscathedFlyingObject · Tue May 09, 2006 8:10 am

I was just looking at IGN and found about this:

http://revolution.ign.com/objects/826/826840.html

Seems Nintendo will be off to a good start.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:53 am

Nintendo 64 is launched and then dualshock was born.

Now Wii is introduced, and Dualshock gets motion sensor.

Nintendo, you should try the legal way. For someone it worked, since they had to remove vibration.

chtimi-CLA · Post by **chtimi-CLA** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:49 am

600$? are you serious?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:53 am

Nintendo has traditionally tried to sue everyone. I think they know what battles they can and can't win. They should be experts by now, in fact.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:42 pm

PS3 doesn't have old pad sockets.

What if I want to play MGS 2 in all its vibration glory? I'm screwed.

So much for backwards compatibility.

D · Post by D » Tue May 09, 2006 1:15 pm

Sony will show that their controllers will feature motion control so now there is absolutely no reason at all not to buy a ps3.They'll make people forget about Nintendo WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE , erm....., couln't help myself there, sorry, it won't happen again, uhum.......
Nintendo announced like Sega did that they'll just be making softs from now on.
I predict they'll say: "we never intended to be a hardware manufacterer, we were in this just for the games and from now on we will just focus on making good games."

VNAF Ace · Post by **VNAF Ace** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:27 pm

$600!? What the #### is Sony thinking!?

The X360 and Wii will outsell the PS3 if Sony doesn't drop the price. I can't believe I'm hearing this #### from the same company who launched the PS1 at $300 when Sega launched the Saturn at $400.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:35 pm

This is some of the weirdest damage control I've ever heard of - Ken Kutaragi (the white suited Penguin lookalike in the press conference) saying $600 is probably too cheap a price:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/706/706133p1.html

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:35 pm

How much longer does PS2 have? Especially when it comes to arcade ports/retro collections...there's gotta be some way to tell, right?

Post by **Ghegs** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:50 pm

All I'm really interested in is the full songlist for Guitar Hero II and I'm not even sure they're gonna reveal it.

kong · Post by **kong** » Tue May 09, 2006 3:13 pm

I'm not sure why everybody is suprised by the price. Having a blu ray drive is going to add dramatically to production cost for the console. Still that was an absolutely atrocious press conference by Sony. They should have just continued last years theme of prerendered cg masquerading as realtime game footage.

I'm interested in Nintendo's press conference. The name change for the Revolution was horrendous so it will be interesting if they continue down the path of insanity. I'm hoping they turn it around with a nice showing but so many gamers these days are outright graphics whores I think they have their work cut out for them.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Tue May 09, 2006 4:24 pm

Neon wrote:How much longer does PS2 have? Especially when it comes to arcade ports/retro collections...there's gotta be some way to tell, right?

Check out the SCE Press Conference; they claim that they will continue to support the PS2, in the same way that they supported the PS1 after the PS2 came out.

As far as the controller goes, I officially take back everything I ever said about Nintendo being paranoid! This has gotta be one of the biggest cases of copying in the history of the video game industry. And it also begs the question of what the hell the Dual Analog sticks and shoulder buttons will be used for, since it will be motion sensitive.

Speaking of lawsuits, I thought Sony was not allowed to use the Dual Shock 2 Design anymore?

I still cannot understand why the pricing comes as a shock to anyone. We all knew that the PS3 cost $900 to make, so pricing under $500 would kill the system for sure. And the $500 model just has less memory; AFIK it still has a lot of the features that Microsoft cut out of their basic XBOX 360 package.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Tue May 09, 2006 5:24 pm

Watching the Nintendo conference now... Looks like some good stuff coming for the DS, including a Starfox game and a western version of Ouendan (called Elite Beat Agents).

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:53 pm

A few thoughts on the Nintendo conference:

All in all, they did a pretty good job of showing what the Wii stands for, and what differentiates it from the competition, but left some significant questions unanswered (No price or solid release date, and little information on the Virtual Console functionality.) Mostly they used it to show off games, several of which look like they should be quite interesting. They also very clearly illustrated what the controller will do. This turns out to be significantly different than I was expecting. The built-in speaker on the controller is also an interesting touch. Some of the DS stuff looked interesting too, although they didn't emphasize that too heavily.

As I said in my earlier predictions, I don't think they completely met the expectations people had beforehand, but the hype was astronomical, so short of some massive bombshell like immediate availability I doubt they would have been able to do so. I guess they have to save something for TGS though. Right now, the big story of the day continues to be the PS3's pricetag... Still, I really would have liked to found out more info on the Virtual Console functionality, since this is the big system seller for me.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:02 pm

Vexorg wrote:but the hype was astronomical

They sure played you guys. Please someone tell me if any info is revealed that this won't be a Gamecube with a Power Glove.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:12 pm

Apparently a number of Konami arcade games, including Scramble and Time Pilot are headed for XBLA now... and Lumines is getting an XBLA release too (thus removing a major reason for me to get a PSP.)

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:36 pm

Other announcements for 360:

-Wireless steering wheel (made by the people responsible for the Sidewinder wheel), and wireless headset
-Forza 2 coming by the end of the year (so you'll have something to use the wheel for)
-GTA IV will be a 360 exclusive

Also, there is a Halo 3 trailer up on marketplace, although the server is hammered.

jp · Post by jp » Tue May 09, 2006 7:37 pm

Nintendo floored me. I think they did a damn good job. I was expecting Nintendo to get lazy with the DS... but no, they're going to continue beating the shit out of the PSP.

Wii looks fun. I'll be getting one definitely.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:49 pm

And here is (apparently) the "classic" Wii controller, presumably for use with Virtual Console:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/09/confi ... -revealed/

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Tue May 09, 2006 7:58 pm

Nintendo's presentation was amazing and really sold the controller. And damn, Yoshi's Island 2? I can't say I saw that coming.