shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:11 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 523
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
ldeveraux wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
Has anyone actually tried this thing yet and can report on its quality?


Not really, DirkSwizzler tested it with a couple of consoles and a switcher, but that's it so far:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63585&start=330


Slightly more direct link to working HDMI automatic switches that appear to work with the DAC.
viewtopic.php?p=1399275#p1399275

I don't have an eye for the super technical stuff like crushed blacks or whatnot. The image quality seemed good to me.

It appears to be doing super resolution shenanigans to ensure high quality output on any CRT. My Vertex 2 reported the resolution as upwards of 2Kx240. I *think* it was 2084x240. But I can't quite remember the last digits of the horizontal factor.

Build quality is nice. It has both a micro USB female and USB A female ports. For passing along power.

I didn't test audio at all. But I can't see how that could possibly be bad.

It definitely fits my needs for analog output on Analogue products.

I didn't play with it enough to be sure about anything else. But these things seemed to be true...
It seems like there was no output if there wasn't an input. So it probably satisfies my analog switching requirements.
It looked like it had a built-in "NO SIGNAL" screen if it received anything other than one of it's super resolutions. So it's probably not going to work as a general purpose DAC unless maybe a jailbreak changes that.
_________________
My gaming setup for automatic switching (with product links)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:14 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
DirkSwizzler wrote:
My Vertex 2 reported the resolution as upwards of 2Kx240. I *think* it was 2084x240. But I can't quite remember the last digits of the horizontal factor.


Hopefully that's not the actual value because you basically cannot upscale integrally *anything* to it. Though, given the interest of this company and kevtris himself in analog displays (and how to emulate them), it's not really a surprise.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 523
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
DirkSwizzler wrote:
My Vertex 2 reported the resolution as upwards of 2Kx240. I *think* it was 2084x240. But I can't quite remember the last digits of the horizontal factor.


Hopefully that's not the actual value because you basically cannot upscale integrally *anything* to it. Though, given the interest of this company and kevtris himself in analog displays (and how to emulate them), it's not really a surprise.


I'll check again tonight. Sorry guys for my fuzzy memory. I was focused on switching and splitting and assumed other people were covering basic usability and stats.
And it's worth mentioning that the Vertex 2 didn't forward the signal properly. So it's not actually compatible. Which could mean that it's reported data is wildly wrong.
_________________
My gaming setup for automatic switching (with product links)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 523
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
Here we go. For these results I plugged the consoles directly into the DAC until they reached the boot menu. Then swapped them to the Vertex 2 without powering down. Once again, the vertex 2 does not forward this signal so it could be wrong. It's just the only data I have. And the concept at least makes sense.

Super NT is reporting as 2048x228p 60.092Hz
Mega SG is reporting as 2830x246p 59.916Hz
_________________
My gaming setup for automatic switching (with product links)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:46 am 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 523
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
I've confirmed that it does not output a sync signal if there's no input. So the output is auto-switch friendly.
Tested with inputs directly for Super NT and Mega SG. As well as going through the automatic switches I listed as fully working.

I also did a quick test to confirm that it's not going to work as a general purpose DAC (unless there's a jailbreak). I hooked my snes junior up to my OSSC set to generic 1x mode.
The "NO SIGNAL" screen came up on the DAC output. And the sync was kinda going batshit. And the "input signal" light was flashing a bunch too. So the hopeful tinkerer side of me thinks that maybe it was on the cusp of working.
_________________
My gaming setup for automatic switching (with product links)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:29 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
Thks for checking DirkSwizzler. Super NT makes sense, but Mega NT not at all (neither 320 nor 256 are fractions of 2830). Then again, not that surprising coming from this people, but they at least should give you the option to use the native resolutions. Wait 3 years from now for a firmware update.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:41 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 314
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
but Mega NT not at all (neither 320 nor 256 are fractions of 2830).


A real Genesis does not output 320 or 256.....


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:13 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
I don't think there's even one console of those years which doesn't output either, 256, or 320 (when not both).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:59 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 314
Nes, Master system, Genesis, TurboGrafx all don't output either 256 or 320.

Hint: They can output colored borders around the image.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:40 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 985
Colored borders on those old systems make game resolution considerations pretty annoying, especially because I don't think they used the same border sizes even within the same system. Also I don't remember if the Analogue machines support turning said borders on/off. It may have been better if they had just done 1920x240 instead. Also I'm betting that all the analogue output is normalized to 60hz refresh rate, and not the original systems' refresh rates.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:24 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
As per DirkSwizzler's tests, it's the latter:

DirkSwizzler wrote:
Super NT is reporting as 2048x228p 60.092Hz
Mega SG is reporting as 2830x246p 59.916Hz



And yep, I fail to see the point in bringing in the non-active pixels matter to this discussion. Designing a super resolution format taking colored borders into account would indeed end up in no integer scaling for anything, essentially.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:06 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 314
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
And yep, I fail to see the point in bringing in the non-active pixels matter to this discussion.


Yeah it is crazy to bring up borders in this discussion. Why would a DAC that replicates the exact original timings of the original consoles output the same borders as the original. :roll:

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Designing a super resolution format taking colored borders into account would indeed end up in no integer scaling for anything, essentially.


Wrong, and by the way here the resolutions are based on the system clock and timings of the original hardware.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Analogue DAC
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:40 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 228
I'm glad to know, if that's really the case, but I stand by my opinion - when you're using a super resolution format you're not replicating the exact original dot clocks of the original systems, so why bother to add the borders, specially when these can even vary depending on the console revision.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 73 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Opatus, TrantaLocked_ and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group