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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:27 pm 


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IMHO the Tendak kinda sucks compared to the Portta HDMI to VGA. The Portta doesn’t dim the image nearly as much as the Tendak does in scanline mode. Just be sure not to get the Portta scaler, just straight converter.

Hey Fudoh, have you ever tried the Analog Way “Octo” up/down scalers?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:31 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
6t8k wrote:
On the Xbox 360, what influence does the video output method (analog vs. HDMI) have on input lag, excluding any lag added by the monitor?
Specifically, assuming both are generated in parallel (not firm with the 360's hardware internals), which path takes longer?

I am not an expert, but I don't think there'd be any tangible difference in input lag. If the difference is measurable at all, it's going to be too small to matter.

Thanks! Was suspecting that, but wanted at least a second opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:32 pm 


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Has anyone opened up their retrobit Metal Storm re-release to see if the voltage levels are properly converted (or know if Holy Diver did it properly)? My gamebit doesn't seem to quite fit the screws.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:35 pm 


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kitty666cats wrote:
IMHO the Tendak kinda sucks compared to the Portta HDMI to VGA.


I recently discovered that my U-green HDMI to VGA converter won't pass 240p, but up converts it to either 640*480 or 720*480, I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

Do anyone know if the Portta will pass 240p from a computer to CRT?

Failing that, how about the tendak?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:53 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Has anyone opened up their retrobit Metal Storm re-release to see if the voltage levels are properly converted (or know if Holy Diver did it properly)? My gamebit doesn't seem to quite fit the screws.

Maybe something like this could do the trick? Opening game carts using a ball-pen and a lighter


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:54 pm 


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Quote:
I recently discovered that my U-green HDMI to VGA converter won't pass 240p, but up converts it to either 640*480 or 720*480, I haven't been able to figure it out yet.

are you 100% sure of that? I'm inclined to say that your PC output might default back to 31khz instead (while your driver setup might possibly still show the 15khz res output).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:08 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
are you 100% sure of that? I'm inclined to say that your PC output might default back to 31khz instead (while your driver setup might possibly still show the 15khz res output).


Not 100% sure, no. However, the same modeline will get usable 240p over a VGA connector output that results in a horizontally scrambled mess going from HMDI output > U-green adaptor.

Edit: moving this to thread that makes more sense viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64797


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:40 pm 



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Has anyone replaced a bad gear on a turbo CD before? I'm not having any luck trying to put a clip back on to hold it in place. These things are tiny as hell and go flying if I'm not careful.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:19 pm 


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I've done a few. I place the ring flat on my fingertip and just press down on the rod, where it's supposed to end up on. Anything else, like handling the ring at its edges or using any tools, didn't really work for me. If don't feel that you can do it with your fingertip, you can use a piece of cardboard between it. Ideally you put a double sided adhesive tape on the cardboard first, so the ring is fixated and then you press down flat on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:52 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
I've done a few. I place the ring flat on my fingertip and just press down on the rod, where it's supposed to end up on. Anything else, like handling the ring at its edges or using any tools, didn't really work for me. If don't feel that you can do it with your fingertip, you can use a piece of cardboard between it. Ideally you put a double sided adhesive tape on the cardboard first, so the ring is fixated and then you press down flat on it.


That's a great couple of ideas, thanks!

Update: I got it!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:44 pm 



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Do old consoles output full range RGB? I know they shouldn't since CRTs would expect limited range, but when I set my GameCube (via GCDual) to output limited range, it seems washed out and blacks aren't actually black, whereas if I use my NES (with NESRGB mod), blacks are black and everything looks normal.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:33 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
Do old consoles output full range RGB?

Yes, because limited range RGB is a digital-only thing.

Quote:
I know they shouldn't since CRTs would expect limited range

Not true
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:27 pm 


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Quote:
I know they shouldn't since CRTs would expect limited range

you might be thinking of the 7.5 IRE offset available on analogue video signals. This can feel a bit like you're dealing with a limited range signal when it comes to black levels, but it's not the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:28 pm 



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Posts: 604
So do be clear, leave the GC set to full and it'll be fine?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:34 pm 



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I know Limited Range RGB is a digital-only thing that is is 16-235 instead of 0-255 (Full Range RGB), but does that also mean Limited Range RGB is 4:2:2?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:47 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
I know Limited Range RGB is a digital-only thing that is is 16-235 instead of 0-255 (Full Range RGB), but does that also mean Limited Range RGB is 4:2:2?

unrelated


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:52 pm 



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maxtherabbit wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
I know Limited Range RGB is a digital-only thing that is is 16-235 instead of 0-255 (Full Range RGB), but does that also mean Limited Range RGB is 4:2:2?

unrelated

So Limited Range RGB can also output 4:4:4?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:12 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
So Limited Range RGB can also output 4:4:4?


My understanding is that 4:4:4 vs 4:2:2 is entirely a function of bandwidth reduction for non-RGB spaces. It is only relevant to color models like YCbCr which express the color information as equations with chrominance. The details of this change depending on the model, but the general idea is that, for Y'CbCr, 4:2:2 is a reduction of the sampling rate for the Cb and Cr components in order to reduce bandwidth. The theory being that humans can't perceive the reduction in resolution of the color information.

Chroma subsampling has no bearing on RGB because the color is sent as (more or less) complete info on each of the primary light frequencies.

Full vs limited is the mapping of the color into a scale. I think the number are 255 for Full and 220 for Limited. Limited maps the 220 into the Full range at 16. The downside is that you lose 35 steps between colors over the whole range. This is greatly mitigated by the fact that that values below 16 and above 235 are both difficult to perceive (as they are all almost pure black and white shades) and difficult to display as distinct shades on a monitor. (by older and lower res monitors) There is still some loss in steps in the middle, but I don't think it's perceivable on a 15kHz CRT, and I have a hard time seeing the difference on a new fancy monitor as well. The immediate change you will see when switching may be that the brightness changes, but that's just because you are shifting the range up and down. A simple adjustment of the contrast and brightness has always given me what I see as identical results for both.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:54 am 



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Can "SCART(RGB)/Component(YUV)-to-VGA" converters/boxes take in 240p and output to 480p?

I don't know if my DVR is up-converting 240p composite into 480i/p on it's SCART or Component outputs, and it doesn't have a VGA port...


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:30 am 



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2mg wrote:
Can "SCART(RGB)/Component(YUV)-to-VGA" converters/boxes take in 240p and output to 480p?

I don't know if my DVR is up-converting 240p composite into 480i/p on it's SCART or Component outputs, and it doesn't have a VGA port...

If you're talking about the cheap junk you find on Amazon or AliExpress, it's almost always guaranteed that it will be a device that interprets 240p as 480i, and it will take what it thinks is 480i, deinterlace it, then scale it to the user's choice of 480p, 720p, or 1080p; they may output 480p, but it's not exactly going to be a line-double of the 240p input.

I don't think there's anything on the market that takes 240p RGB/YPbPr over SCART/RCA component and line-doubles it to 480p with a DE-15/RGBHV output (and, if it does, chances are the output is going to be DTV 480p, not VGA 640x480).

You could use an OSSC for SCART or RCA component, or an RT2X for YPbPr over RCA component, but you'd still need to pair that device with an HDMI to VGA converter to get that analogue output.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:14 am 



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nmalinoski wrote:
I don't think there's anything on the market that takes 240p RGB/YPbPr over SCART/RCA component and line-doubles it to 480p with a DE-15/RGBHV output (and, if it does, chances are the output is going to be DTV 480p, not VGA 640x480).


I can do a 240p Composite -> DVR -> RGB/YUV.

Actually, I'd *really* prefer Composite->VGA for simplicity, but I noticed things like Garo and GBS8200 take only RGB/YUV.

So I threw a DVR into the mix, since it can output RGB/YUV (SCART/Component).

BUT:
If the DVR doesn't do 240p->480i/p, I'm stuck.
If it does 480i, Garo will convert it to 480i VGA, which I don't know how it would look like on an LCD (deinterlacing).
If it does 480p, then Garo could work, right? What about alternatives, like GBS8200?
Do VGA boxes even convert 15khz into 31khz VGA?

PS: I'd still just rather Composite->VGA if possible anyway.


Last edited by 2mg on Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:20 am 


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2mg wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
I don't think there's anything on the market that takes 240p RGB/YPbPr over SCART/RCA component and line-doubles it to 480p with a DE-15/RGBHV output (and, if it does, chances are the output is going to be DTV 480p, not VGA 640x480).


I can do a 240p Composite -> DVR -> RGB/YUV.

Actually, I'd *really* prefer Composite->VGA for simplicity, but I noticed things like Garo and GBS8200 take only RGB/YUV.

So I threw a DVR into the mix, since it can output RGB/YUV (SCART/Component).

If the DVR doesn't do 240p->480i/p, I'm stuck.
If it does 480i, Garo will convert it to 480i VGA, which I don't know how it would look like on an LCD (deinterlacing).
If it does 480p, then Garo could work, right? What about alternatives, like GBS8200?

PS: I'd still just rather Composite->VGA if possible anyway.


Don't buy anything. Wait for the OSSC Pro. Looks like it will eventually do what you want.

I think almost all our gear is about to become obsolete.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:46 am 



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If price is a concern, the GBS8200 with custom firmware can do it for under $35.
Quality will be best with higher than 480p outputs though. 1280x960 or 1080p is ideal.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:13 am 



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Has anyone ever tried this line doubler?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/15Khz-RGB-R ... 1438.l2649


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:05 pm 


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Does the DVDO iScan "Edge bug" affect the US (NTSC) TurboGrafx 16 or is exclusive to other regions? I'm struggling to reproduce the bug on an iScan Duo with the 240p Test Suite while feeding 960p from the OSSC.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:15 pm 


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Quote:
Does the DVDO iScan "Edge bug" affect the US (NTSC) TurboGrafx 16 or is exclusive to other regions? I'm struggling to reproduce the bug on an iScan Duo with the 240p Test Suite while feeding 960p from the OSSC.


If you mean the increased input lag then yes, all regions, though maybe you're onto something there, and it only affects typical broadcast resolutions like 480p.. experiment more and let us know.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:54 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
Does the DVDO iScan "Edge bug" affect the US (NTSC) TurboGrafx 16 or is exclusive to other regions? I'm struggling to reproduce the bug on an iScan Duo with the 240p Test Suite while feeding 960p from the OSSC.


If you mean the increased input lag then yes, all regions, though maybe you're onto something there, and it only affects typical broadcast resolutions like 480p.. experiment more and let us know.


That's why I got started looking at it. It seemed like a bug related to deinterlacing or PReP and 960p is usually strictly a computer image signal.

I'll try the N64 with FZero next. (No 240p Test Suite.) :(
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:18 pm 


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Looking at F-Zero on the N64, I strongly suspect the "Edge bug" does not exist when feeding linex4 from the OSSC.

That may make the Duo and the Edge significantly more desirable.

Can someone else look at this?
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:15 pm 


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I tried to feed my Edge a line-multiplied signal from a modded PS1 a while ago and the added latency was still there.

I don't remember if it was 4x/960p though. I didn't investigate any further, but I don't think it matters anyway.

There can't be that many that would care about this now that the OSSC Pro is around the corner.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:46 pm 


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Xer Xian wrote:
I tried to feed my Edge a line-multiplied signal from a modded PS1 a while ago and the added latency was still there.

I don't remember if it was 4x/960p though. I didn't investigate any further, but I don't think it matters anyway.

There can't be that many that would care about this now that the OSSC Pro is around the corner.


That's true. My curiosity isn't always rooted in the most practical solution.

I just want to know because I can.
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