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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:58 am 


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*gets chair ready for sumez v blinge VI*

@BIL: I'll check it out. I actually do like PS1 a lot, just not big on things like TR, Crash Bandicoot etc
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 1:21 am 


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Honestly, neither of them are wrong. Zelda 3 is kind of like FFVII in that regard... you think there's too much hand-holding, but the sequels are even worse about it. Pokemon and Metroid are guilty of this as well.

The moral of the story is to take your Nintendo in small doses.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:13 am 


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Metroid 1 too much hand holding???

Maybe you're thinking of the GBA remake.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:16 am 


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Xyga wrote:
The three 'reboot' TR are so divisive, honestly I haven't played any yet, and if I had to pick one or two I'm still not set on which game(s) to leave out.

Shadow is love or hate apparently, and the demographics split 50/50.

It's hard to tell when just watching gameplay videos it looks gorgeous and quite 'TR-like'.


Yeah, this. I've enough fond memories of the original two that I'd like to play something similar, but I can't really get any sort of handle on where to start with these three.

I should really pick up Anniversary, I think I started that on a handheld years ago and quite enjoyed it if memory serves.

Oh I just got up to the Ada bit in RE2. What a tedious, trial-and-error piece of shit that part is. I'm probably not playing this game for long enough periods of time (life is getting in the way at the moment), but I seem to be less and less interested every time I fire this back up.

Oh, got my clears on OutRun OLD vers. Time for new. Opened up the 30fpd option.... thought I was gonna hurl.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:29 am 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
*gets chair ready for sumez v blinge VI*


Hahahah :lol:
Oh noooo.
It's like some weird UFC where they roll out these battered old fucks on wheelchairs and make them fight.
Mischief Maker wrote:
Metroid 1 too much hand holding???

Maybe you're thinking of the GBA remake.


Nah he means the later games!

I actually started metroid fusion, i think. The first one on GBA.. stopped playing. I just got so bored!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:45 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Sumez wrote:
Link to the Past is already one of the more hand-holding Zelda games as it is


Compared to the series as a whole? c'mon.

Sure, it's hard to get more hand holding than Skyward Sword, I don't think any game is. But ALttP was pretty much the game that introduced that aspect to the series. Everything in that game is spelled out to the player, and that was honestly kinda unique for 1991.

Blinge wrote:
I actually started metroid fusion, i think. The first one on GBA.. stopped playing. I just got so bored!

What an unfortunate start. I hope it didn't kill your enthusiasm, and that you have since experience the bliss that is getting lost in the world of Super Metroid.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:23 am 


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Sumez wrote:
TransatlanticFoe wrote:
There's also a few spots where it's not obvious how to progress and you just kind of have to stumble on the solution (like the medallion you get from throwing something into a pond), definitely a product of its time in that respect.


I guess this is the reason developers are afraid of making games that ask people to think for themselves nowadays.

I honestly don't feel like the game could have been any more clear. Obviously suspicious circle of rocks in the water. Only one way to actually interact with stuff in the water. Not enough for you? How about the sign telling you not to throw stuff into the circle. I guess you took the sign too literally. :3
Link to the Past is already one of the more hand-holding Zelda games as it is, and I can't imagine getting stuck in it.


I meant how you're supposed to find said medallion there. The puzzle is simple when you find it but it's not an area you naturally come across. So you get to the turtle rock entrance, find you need a medallion you don't have and the game gives you no clue where it is. The other medallions are obtained from stone tablets you can see as you wander close to dungeons, but there's literally no reason to find yourself in the corner of the map for that pond unless you're aimlessly wandering because you're stuck.

It's bad design because it's literally something you can only stumble upon. It's off the beaten track and you'd think from the other two medallions that you're looking for a stone tablet. Every other mandatory item in the game has clues or you see suspicious things as you naturally progress through the game.

But yeah, thanks for calling me stupid because I'm calling out obvious padding for the bad design that it is.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:30 am 


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I'd say it's great design for the exact same reasons you're claiming it's bad design. This is one of the things I love about the game, and other games like it.
I guess I just don't understand your perspective. I don't understand why you'd want to play a game like this, and not explore its world. It's not like Skyrim where the world is 99% nothing or repeats of other things - there's stuff everywhere.

... also, maybe I remember it wrong, but aren't you required to go past there to get the flippers?


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:39 am 


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Quote:
Sure, it's hard to get more hand holding than Skyward Sword, I don't think any game is. But ALttP was pretty much the game that introduced that aspect to the series. Everything in that game is spelled out to the player, and that was honestly kinda unique for 1991.


Okay but now you're saying a different thing to your original point. Like, the majority of Zeldos are more hand-holdy than alttp. Not just the extreme example of skyward schlock
That was it, i'm just being stickler for detail I guess.

I would suggest that not eVeRyThInG in alttp is spelled out but i don't remember the game well enough despite playing it through again a couple of years ago derrp.

Sumez wrote:
What an unfortunate start. I hope it didn't kill your enthusiasm, and that you have since experience the bliss that is getting lost in the world of Super Metroid.


Uh oh.. you probably don't remember. I think I posted about how i didn't like Super very much.

I actually enjoyed my time with Metroid 2 more than Super Metroid.
I played 1,2,3, then started fusion.

super was.. I don't know. It felt like a chore to play, the one way loops, the movement felt horrible.
Yes, i know there's all these advanced movement techs you can do and sequence breaks etc etc, but for the first time player those aren't a thing.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:03 am 


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Yeah the flippers, right at the start of the game. In the light world. This is approaching the endgame.

The game does a great job for the most part of naturally pointing you in the right direction. There's plenty of reward for exploration in the game - the optional cape and the other cane, as well as heart pieces - but there's only so much exploration one can take when you just want to get on with the game. And especially if you're actively looking for a stone tablet because that's the logical place for the medallion to be.

Forcing you to wander around until you stumble on what you need to move forward in the actual game is tiresome. When there's no hints to discover and no logic to something being where it is, it's an exercise in patience. It's not Metroid, where exploration is literally the game, it's just jarringly put of place and took the shine off the game for me.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:39 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Uh oh.. you probably don't remember. I think I posted about how i didn't like Super very much.


I enjoyed Super a good deal - the music, the atmosphere, everything's really well polished about the game. It's a bit too easy I think though; you get quite powerful midgame and stuff becomes a lot easier than later fights in Metroid 1 and 2. But that's fine, that's what challenge runs or hacks are for, I guess. I'm still annoyed about getting stuck not knowing
Spoiler: show
to powerbomb that glass tube as a kid, but in my defense, I was getting the X-Ray vision before that point and the X-Ray vision doesn't reveal the glass tube as being specifically breakable by powerbombs, so it's a bit of a trial and error thing.


Metroid 2 is a great game though, and I was always disappointed to see people didn't like it as much. It's a bit more linear than Metroid 1 or Super Metroid are, but it still has plenty of more open ended areas to explore at your leisure or choose where to go first, and the map in Super Metroid, while a good advancement for the series, does take away that joy of exploration and the tension of truly getting lost in an unknown area. With an automap, you always know where you are and how to escape, whereas without one you have to be a bit more aware of your surroundings, and Super Metroid doesn't quite reach that feeling of tension Metroid 1 and 2 do in terms of feeling like you're in danger. I can see why someone wouldn't be as fond of Super Metroid, it has a very different feeling, less bleak and claustrophobic than the earlier games.

Metroid Fusion does a great job of recapturing that tension while exploring though, and I haven't tried Metroid Zero Mission yet. Fusion is pretty different in how it feels even from the SNES games but it's a good game in its own right.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:00 pm 


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I like how Metroid II has those bosses lurking around the corner. Definitely adds to the tension of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:21 am 


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REDPULSE is really cool and you should all check it out, seriously. Here's a no death run of the game.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:22 pm 


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Well I finally finished Doom64 (pc ver) - hardest difficulty.
God damn, more like Hell Knight label.

So many levels had rooms and corridors stuffed with hell knights. So annoying, eating up all my ammo.
I was shotty2hotty for most of the game, I'd have been utterly sunk without that super shotty.

Also there was a moment where a small corridor contained several pain elementals, I kept with the chaingun. Shot all 400 bullets and couldn't kill them. Couldn't actually hit the elementals faster than they were squirting out babies. AGH

Shredded the final boss instantly with the Unmaker. Loaded save to fight it without. Kinda cool boss I guess.

Anyway I'm just glad to be rid of that dark ass game, it was fun but RIP my eyes.
The N64 version is unplayable for that reason.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:16 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Well I finally finished Doom64 (pc ver) - hardest difficulty.
God damn, more like Hell Knight label.

So many levels had rooms and corridors stuffed with hell knights. So annoying, eating up all my ammo.

Ha ha, so true. That exact situation is definitely used a little bit too frequently, just enough to get annoying by the very end. Though I've just finished playing through it again myself and it's kinda easy to get used to after the first time through. The maps are pretty fun and well-balanced overall though, so do keep it in mind if you'll ever want to visit a classic FPS again.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:51 pm 


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Someone, I think on here, mentioned the random annoyances in Xenogears and I had one pop up again yesterday. I had to go talk to a character on a narrow bridge to progress the game. So I do that, and I immediately start going back. BUT WAIT!!! A random NPC has decided they are walking across the bridge. I can't go around them. If I stand still it stops them and they do nothing. I had to go the other way, load another area and then reload the previous area to get through.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:35 pm 


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Recently received Final Fight One for the GBA, and it's probably my favourite of the FF ports that deviate significantly from the source material. It's obviously based largely on the SNES version, but it's vastly improved in lots of ways. Most obviously, it puts back a lot of what was previously omitted (notably Guy, the Industrial Area and Rolento), but the enemy behaviour also seems much more in line with the arcade game's, at least in the sense that the bastards don't give you an inch. They're constantly encircling you, poking you and punishing every moment's hesitation, every second you spend thinking instead of suplexing. Their behaviour isn't 1:1, but the result is that the game feels just as brutal as the original (although it's still possible I'll discover some cheesy way to 'game' the enemies that wasn't there before). The music is really cleverly transposed and arranged, playing to the strengths of the hardware and generally going for raw energy as opposed to a sense of drama or grandeur. The addition of the SF Alpha versions of Guy and Cody, as characters with their own movesets intact rather than 'skins', and seemingly aware (in delightfully goofy new dialogue scenes) of their winding up in the past, gives an already hefty game even more longevity. It's one of the rare and special home ports that don't feel obsolete in the light of easier access to arcade-perfect versions, and it's a heady aesthetic experience in its own right, which is about the best thing a 'compromised' port can be.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:26 pm 


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I played through the Punisher arcade game for the first time last night. Everything about it was just perfect. Between that, Alien vs Predator and Streets of Rage 2, it's really hard for me to say which I think is the greatest beat 'em up I've ever played. I wish there were more games with Frank Castle in them. One of my favorite superheroes for sure. If you're guilty, you're dead!
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:20 pm 


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I don't know if I would include Bare Knuckle II in that list. As much as I like it, I know I'm not the only person here who thinks it overstays its welcome a bit. There's some input failure when you have a lot of enemies on screen, too, which can be annoying.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:35 pm 


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Battle Circuit no miss from last year
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:36 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
I don't know if I would include Bare Knuckle II in that list. As much as I like it, I know I'm not the only person here who thinks it overstays its welcome a bit. There's some input failure when you have a lot of enemies on screen, too, which can be annoying.

It's been up there with the best so long for the simple reason that it's still arguably one of the top three bmups in which hitting enemies around feels this good, and it still holds today (by the interview blackoak published some time ago, it wasn't a happy accident but carefully thought and timed)
That and its perfect 80's~early90's action brawler flick flair, archetypal of the ideal bmup.

Otherwise yeah there's long been many fleshier and more refined bmups than BKII, you could say it was already beaten just a year later in 1993, indeed by games like Punisher, Cadillacs, then from 1994 with D&D and AvP poor BKII already looked primitive.

But it's not nothing, I mean the quality/pleasure of hitting in a bmup...is a huge part of the reason to play, isn't it ?
So that abnormally long recognition, I feel BKII deserved it.
I still play it like once every year or two, and every time I can't stop and clear the game a few times straight until I can't feel my fingers, it's not nostalgia, BKII will always be good. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:18 am 


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Xyga wrote:
WelshMegalodon wrote:
I don't know if I would include Bare Knuckle II in that list. As much as I like it, I know I'm not the only person here who thinks it overstays its welcome a bit. There's some input failure when you have a lot of enemies on screen, too, which can be annoying.

It's been up there with the best so long for the simple reason that it's still arguably one of the top three bmups in which hitting enemies around feels this good, and it still holds today (by the interview blackoak published some time ago, it wasn't a happy accident but carefully thought and timed)
That and its perfect 80's~early90's action brawler flick flair, archetypal of the ideal bmup.

Otherwise yeah there's long been many fleshier and more refined bmups than BKII, you could say it was already beaten just a year later in 1993, indeed by games like Punisher, Cadillacs, then from 1994 with D&D and AvP poor BKII already looked primitive.

But it's not nothing, I mean the quality/pleasure of hitting in a bmup...is a huge part of the reason to play, isn't it ?
So that abnormally long recognition, I feel BKII deserved it.
I still play it like once every year or two, and every time I can't stop and clear the game a few times straight until I can't feel my fingers, it's not nostalgia, BKII will always be good. 8)

Word! That was beautifully said.

I too have a very hard time putting the game down once I start playing (and isn't that like the number 1 thing a game should strive to instill in the player??)
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:23 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Xyga wrote:
WelshMegalodon wrote:
I don't know if I would include Bare Knuckle II in that list. As much as I like it, I know I'm not the only person here who thinks it overstays its welcome a bit. There's some input failure when you have a lot of enemies on screen, too, which can be annoying.

It's been up there with the best so long for the simple reason that it's still arguably one of the top three bmups in which hitting enemies around feels this good, and it still holds today (by the interview blackoak published some time ago, it wasn't a happy accident but carefully thought and timed)
That and its perfect 80's~early90's action brawler flick flair, archetypal of the ideal bmup.

Otherwise yeah there's long been many fleshier and more refined bmups than BKII, you could say it was already beaten just a year later in 1993, indeed by games like Punisher, Cadillacs, then from 1994 with D&D and AvP poor BKII already looked primitive.

But it's not nothing, I mean the quality/pleasure of hitting in a bmup...is a huge part of the reason to play, isn't it ?
So that abnormally long recognition, I feel BKII deserved it.
I still play it like once every year or two, and every time I can't stop and clear the game a few times straight until I can't feel my fingers, it's not nostalgia, BKII will always be good. 8)

Word! That was beautifully said.

I too have a very hard time putting the game down once I start playing (and isn't that like the number 1 thing a game should strive to instill in the player??)


Not to mention its higher difficulty modes (particularly Mania) offer a crazy amount of replay value. Mania might as well be completely different game all together, the AI is so crazy you have to completely rethink how you play. SOR2/BK2 is one of the all-time greats.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:11 pm 


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Just got a 2-loop clear in Moon Patrol arcade (Beginner and Champion Courses). Took quite a bit longer than I thought it would, as the UFOs can be really evil placing bombs over pits you can't slow down for. 2-D is not a graphical style anymore, it's "one of those damn stages" :P . I'm pretty happy with this so not sure if I'll try to push it further, but this should get #9 on the PS4 score attack leaderboard.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:45 pm 


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BallisticNG and Crazy Taxi.

I remain stuck where I am at Crazy Taxi. I have the controls down just fine and get ~10k/run, but that's as far as I go. I really need better routing [and better luck -- I suspect this run would have been $2k higher if I didn't get hyper fucking blocked by a bus early on in the run]

BallisticNG is a good bit of fun. It tries to imitate Wipeout 3.
I'm very bad at it though -- all the time trial events, I barely miss the bronze. Even when I feel like I'm doing a clean, quick run, I'll still end up like 4 seconds behind getting a medal.
The game has a nice look to it, very early-2000s PC game.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:50 am 


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Currently running the first Labyrinth of Touhou game. Currently doing a "first 12 recruitables" run, where you use only the first 12 characters you get in the game. Sadly, nobody gets attack buffs to pass around except a couple who buff themselves, and no debuffs on the team except one speed debuffer in the form of Cirno, who's not the greatest character to have on a team.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:34 am 


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Well.. i finally decided to try an Ocarina of Time randomiser.

Went for somewhat crazy ideas like.. open forest, only needing song of time and an ocarina to open the door of time.
shops having one or two random items in them.

So open forest meant I can immediately escape the Kokiri and head out into the wider world, but the bomb bag spawning in the shop for me meant I could leave anyway through the Goron shortcut.
Currrently i'm a bit stumped because I haven't found an egg to wake up Talon, nor have I found any sword, or the slingshot, or Ruto's letter!
This means i can't beat the first two dungeons because I can't shoot the eye puzzles. I can't enter the third cause King Zora's fat ass is in the way still.. I wish i'd ticked the option for him to move :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:28 pm 



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Okay... So I finally played Undertale. Completed all three main paths.

That was 30 mins ago, and so far I've had zero exposure to the fanbase everyone seems to detest. My immediate opinion is this was an impeccable display of the medium as a storytelling & art form, and great entertainment overall. I won't play it a fourth time anytime soon.

I'm also less impressed with Zero Ranger at this point, and marking down my score to a 9.9/10
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:16 pm 


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I recently played through Katamari Damacy on the Switch. It's a short and sweet experience that can be completed in one afternoon sitting (excluding completing the item collection).

A special game full of character, heartfelt in a way that for me somehow overlaps with the way EarthBound does. How do these games from Japan achieve it?
What it has in common with EarthBound, at least, is that both creators set to envision a video game, while coming from a creative setting unrelated to video games. The exceptional aural accentuation plays a vital part in both games too.

I'm having a hard time naming any western-developed game that is comparably whimsical (as intangible of a concept that actually is) and still adequately ambitious.
Without wanting to prejudice the merit of Undertale (haven't played it), nevertheless being familiar with its history of origin, I'm convinced that it is inspired by EarthBound in too many ways to be considered on its own right in this line of thought.

Of the games I know, I think Davey Wreden's "The Stanley Parable" and "The Beginner's Guide" come comparatively close in their own way, maybe also "OFF" (2008) a little bit. But these all depict a completely dissimilar mood/tone (which is no detriment in and of itself).


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:12 pm 



Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 428
Location: US
6t8k wrote:
I'm having a hard time naming any western-developed game that is comparably whimsical (as intangible of a concept that actually is) and still adequately ambitious.
Without wanting to prejudice the merit of Undertale (haven't played it), nevertheless being familiar with its history of origin, I'm convinced that it is inspired by EarthBound in too many ways to be considered on its own right in this line of thought.


I think you will enjoy Undertale then :) It's absolutely inspired by Earthbound, but out of everything else I've played, it's the most uniquely "western" depiction of that same creative vision.
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