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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:00 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
I used to tout their SCART cables as the best, but I've had 3 solder breaks since buying ~14


i have the wiidual cable, and I think it's safe to say the issue is the stiffness of the shielding. having a stiff shield reduces the bend radius and puts stress on the assembly. problem with multiconductor cable with soft shielding is it's $$$$$$$ to custom make.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:08 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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vol.2 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
I used to tout their SCART cables as the best, but I've had 3 solder breaks since buying ~14


i have the wiidual cable, and I think it's safe to say the issue is the stiffness of the shielding. having a stiff shield reduces the bend radius and puts stress on the assembly. problem with multiconductor cable with soft shielding is it's $$$$$$$ to custom make.


And they 3D print the connectors, but I'm not sure the cables are secured in there too well. So as you said, any bend and something's gotta give. In my case, the solder joints.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:40 pm 


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I don't want to be too hard on them tho. Speaking as someone who designs and sources custom cables (for entirely different purposes), I know it can be difficult to reach the price/quality point that makes sense. If anything, I think they could maybe reduce the gauge of the conductors being used a bit and search for a slightly softer shielding. I imagine that the idea was "thicker is better," which is true up to a point. Also, there are some softer PVA based shieldings that aren't too expensive. (they just don't hold up to heat as well)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:03 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
I don't want to be too hard on them tho. Speaking as someone who designs and sources custom cables (for entirely different purposes), I know it can be difficult to reach the price/quality point that makes sense. If anything, I think they could maybe reduce the gauge of the conductors being used a bit and search for a slightly softer shielding. I imagine that the idea was "thicker is better," which is true up to a point. Also, there are some softer PVA based shieldings that aren't too expensive. (they just don't hold up to heat as well)

I don't think it's the shielding itself that makes them stiff, it's the dielectric material in the coax which is required to maintain impedance control.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:26 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
I don't think it's the shielding itself that makes them stiff, it's the dielectric material in the coax which is required to maintain impedance control.


You must be thinking of a different cable. My RA wiidual cable is multi-conductor, thick-gauge stranded wire. It doesn't have anything but a few thin strands of filler in it and is not coaxial.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:41 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
I don't think it's the shielding itself that makes them stiff, it's the dielectric material in the coax which is required to maintain impedance control.


You must be thinking of a different cable. My RA wiidual cable is multi-conductor, thick-gauge stranded wire. It doesn't have anything but a few thin strands of filler in it and is not coaxial.

they have made different types of cables over the years, AFAIK they do not manufacture that style of cable anymore

their current offerings are multi-core coax, and something they call fortaflex or something that is not coax, but specifically designed to not be stiff at all


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:59 am 



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maxtherabbit wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
I don't think it's the shielding itself that makes them stiff, it's the dielectric material in the coax which is required to maintain impedance control.


You must be thinking of a different cable. My RA wiidual cable is multi-conductor, thick-gauge stranded wire. It doesn't have anything but a few thin strands of filler in it and is not coaxial.

they have made different types of cables over the years, AFAIK they do not manufacture that style of cable anymore

their current offerings are multi-core coax, and something they call fortaflex or something that is not coax, but specifically designed to not be stiff at all


I bought my cables 18 months ago. Whatever they are, they are very stiff. That must be before they improved them.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:44 am 


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Has their been more than 2 of their coax variety? The old blue one and the new black Italian made one. The old blue version had more lines and was capable of being multi directional. Meaning it didn't matter which end you plugged in Scart to Scart cables. The black Italian made cable was made to specification and despite being better shielded is now thinner than the blue cable. Cables made from the Italian cable are directional. So Scart to Scart has an input and output side.

Both are very stiff. Retro access introduced their "Fortraflex" cable for more flexibility. Fortraflex makes awesome adapters and cables if your length is kept short.

Quote:
https://retro-access.com/blogs/news

Blue:
SCART compliant mini coax multicore in our cables now for 4 years. It is dark blue in colour, 9mm in diameter and because it is designed for two way SCART, contains some redundant lines for one way console SCART cable.

Black:
All video and audio lines are 75 ohm coax with PE insulation (white centre dielectrics) sourced from Italy. Only the control line for +5Vdc SCART use is not shielded, as shielding this line isn't necessary. An additional overall shield is present around the 6 coax cores.

Fortraflex:
7mm diameter to be precise: we were inspired by official Nintendo and Microsoft cabling, hence we used the same amount of shielding and roughly the same outer diameter of those cables. Therefore the ESD and internal coupling protection should be better


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:12 am 


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I cannot fix the image geometry of Ikegami tm14-17r model. I think I need pin amp adjustment to fix the bowed sides of the image. Side pin phase and side pin level have the same effect - just changing the bottom and top width of the image. I cannot find the proper adjustment trimpots anywhere inside, so is this monitor no good? There is no manual and no on-screen menu.
Maybe someone knows of the problem...


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:57 pm 


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Nogame wrote:
I cannot fix the image geometry of Ikegami tm14-17r model. I think I need pin amp adjustment to fix the bowed sides of the image. Side pin phase and side pin level have the same effect - just changing the bottom and top width of the image. I cannot find the proper adjustment trimpots anywhere inside, so is this monitor no good? There is no manual and no on-screen menu.
Maybe someone knows of the problem...


I think you absolutely have to find a service manual. Any professional Ikegami from the 90's will have many internal geometry adjustments. Failing that, look up some generic descriptions of geometry adjustments for a crt, and a similar year model Ikegami manual. You should be able to find at least one. Your complaint, albeit somewhat vague, sounds like it could be PIC BOW, or possibly PIN AMP type adjustments, but different sets can handle things differently.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:01 pm 



Joined: 19 Oct 2019
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In terms of retro home consoles in the US, why didn't we care about tapping into RGB back then and now we do?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:19 pm 



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ZTylerDurden wrote:
In terms of retro home consoles in the US, why didn't we care about tapping into RGB back then and now we do?

Probably a combination of things, like Internet culture still being in its infancy, and RGB and/or SCART not being made available. The way I understand it, no one here really knew about RGB in a consumer/gaming context, so I imagine there wasn't much demand for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:45 pm 



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nmalinoski wrote:
Probably a combination of things, like Internet culture still being in its infancy, and RGB and/or SCART not being made available. The way I understand it, no one here really knew about RGB in a consumer/gaming context, so I imagine there wasn't much demand for it.


I think it was mainly lack of awareness. That was definitely the case for me, even though as a kid I was into maximizing picture quality. Somehow I already knew of the advantages of S-video, which I used for PS1 and N64. When PS2, Wii, etc. rolled out, I knew about component and saw it as the ultimate way to get the best picture. For older systems I simply thought S-video was as good as it got. I only learned about RGB when I wanted to get back into those older systems in 2016. Searching for consoles to buy led me to discover RGB modded systems, and that was the beginning.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:21 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
Nogame wrote:
I cannot fix the image geometry of Ikegami tm14-17r model. I think I need pin amp adjustment to fix the bowed sides of the image. Side pin phase and side pin level have the same effect - just changing the bottom and top width of the image. I cannot find the proper adjustment trimpots anywhere inside, so is this monitor no good? There is no manual and no on-screen menu.
Maybe someone knows of the problem...


I think you absolutely have to find a service manual. Any professional Ikegami from the 90's will have many internal geometry adjustments. Failing that, look up some generic descriptions of geometry adjustments for a crt, and a similar year model Ikegami manual. You should be able to find at least one. Your complaint, albeit somewhat vague, sounds like it could be PIC BOW, or possibly PIN AMP type adjustments, but different sets can handle things differently.


No more adjustments can be made, and I cannot get a manual. It looks like this monitor just lacks the proper adjustment trimpots, and it may be defective. No menu as mentioned earlier. I am hoping someone else has experience with the basic Ikegami CRT monitors


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:14 am 



Joined: 20 Oct 2016
Posts: 36
I'm in the market for a PC CRT while they are still (relatively) cheap, but I have two questions.
1) I have a modern Alienware gaming laptop with Mini DP, HDMI, and Thunderbolt 3. What would be required to convert this to VGA in order to achieve high resolutions and refresh rates, like 1600x1200 at 75Hz?
2) As far as 480p consoles, I currently have a Wii set up with an HDD, and may get a Dreamcast in the future. I know DC does native VGA, but what are my options for converting my Wii's YPbPr signal to VGA (Assuming it will need to be RGBHV)? I see Mayflash made a combo VGA cable for Wii and PS3. I can find one of these for relatively cheap in my area but I wonder if it will impact IQ at all.
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:04 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 266
ahaddow wrote:
I'm in the market for a PC CRT while they are still (relatively) cheap, but I have two questions.
1) I have a modern Alienware gaming laptop with Mini DP, HDMI, and Thunderbolt 3. What would be required to convert this to VGA in order to achieve high resolutions and refresh rates, like 1600x1200 at 75Hz?
2) As far as 480p consoles, I currently have a Wii set up with an HDD, and may get a Dreamcast in the future. I know DC does native VGA, but what are my options for converting my Wii's YPbPr signal to VGA (Assuming it will need to be RGBHV)? I see Mayflash made a combo VGA cable for Wii and PS3. I can find one of these for relatively cheap in my area but I wonder if it will impact IQ at all.
Thanks!


1) If the mdp is dp++ certified (likely) all you need is a cable like this https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Cab ... gKlgvD_BwE

2) Something like this https://www.beharbros.com/garolite or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/650312848.html More options here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59613


Last edited by strayan on Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:15 pm 


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Nogame wrote:

No more adjustments can be made, and I cannot get a manual.


It's probably a wound inductor with an adjustable coil. Look for another 14" Ikegami manual. Good chance they used a similar design and you'd be able to decipher your setup procedure.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:29 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 948
strayan wrote:
2) Something like this https://www.beharbros.com/garolite or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/650312848.html More options here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59613


That aliexpress converter looks interesting. Since it takes RGBS through the DE-15 connector I assume it also takes 480i through there. I wonder what the quality of the deinterlacing is like. I also wonder how badly it may or may not butcher 240p signals.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:39 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 266
fernan1234 wrote:
strayan wrote:
2) Something like this https://www.beharbros.com/garolite or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/650312848.html More options here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59613


That aliexpress converter looks interesting. Since it takes RGBS through the DE-15 connector I assume it also takes 480i through there. I wonder what the quality of the deinterlacing is like. I also wonder how badly it may or may not butcher 240p signals.


This is the place to ask my friend! viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52172


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:02 pm 



Joined: 12 Dec 2019
Posts: 17
Hi everyone

I'd like to connect my HD capable consoles to a CRT monitor. Currently I have two converters to achieve this, but they both have a defect: the HDFury Gamer that I was given stops working somewhere within the first hour of use, and the König HDMI to VGA Converter stops working for about five seconds every once in a while.

What are my options? I'm thinking either a HDFury Gamer 2, or a HDFury X3. The former seems to be cheaper, but less widely available, as it's discontinued, while the latter is more expensive, but its design is an improvement over the former. I've read that another option would be the (also discontinued) HDFury Nano, but I don't know how good the quality is. One product review said that the best was merely okay.

It's important to mention that I'm located in Europe, so buying from a local retailer would be preferred. I've found that HDFury has .eu and .nl domains, but I doubt their legitimacy.

Thanks in advance for your advice!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:34 pm 


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are there any extron devices that allow vertical resizing which output in 240p?

asking because I don't like opening up my monitor to adjust the vsize when I use sources with different vertical resolutions.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:54 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
are there any extron devices that allow vertical resizing which output in 240p?

asking because I don't like opening up my monitor to adjust the vsize when I use sources with different vertical resolutions.


I don't believe there's any which don't do mandatory scaling as well. Centering with something like an Extron RGB 203 Rxi is all I've been able to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:11 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
I don't believe there's any which don't do mandatory scaling as well. Centering with something like an Extron RGB 203 Rxi is all I've been able to do.


Thanks. Makes sense. I wish there was some kind of foolproof way to do 320x200 to 320x240 scaling in a device.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:46 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
Nogame wrote:

No more adjustments can be made, and I cannot get a manual.


It's probably a wound inductor with an adjustable coil. Look for another 14" Ikegami manual. Good chance they used a similar design and you'd be able to decipher your setup procedure.


I cannot find a manual for a similar monitor, as expected. I see no way to adjust the curved sides of the image. The monitor is either poorly designed, defective, or requiring a unusual manual adjustment procedure.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:46 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 433
Nogame wrote:
I cannot find a manual for a similar monitor, as expected. I see no way to adjust the curved sides of the image. The monitor is either poorly designed, defective, or requiring a unusual manual adjustment procedure.


Distortion in the image like this is a classic symptom of bad electrolytic capacitors in the deflection circuitry. It's an extremely common problem. I wouldn't get rid of the monitor until you've tried changing out those capacitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:04 am 


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SamIAm wrote:
Nogame wrote:
I cannot find a manual for a similar monitor, as expected. I see no way to adjust the curved sides of the image. The monitor is either poorly designed, defective, or requiring a unusual manual adjustment procedure.


Distortion in the image like this is a classic symptom of bad electrolytic capacitors in the deflection circuitry. It's an extremely common problem. I wouldn't get rid of the monitor until you've tried changing out those capacitors.


The monitor should provide a way to adjust the curvature. I cannot replace capacitors or perform similar repairs anyway, and no one else is willing to do the work. A simple adjustment would at least improve the geometry. I am stuck unless manuals can be found or someone knows how to fully operate a similar low-cost Ikegami monitor and is willing to advise. The monitor may just be cheap and not worthy of repair.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:14 am 



Joined: 20 Oct 2016
Posts: 36
strayan wrote:
ahaddow wrote:
I'm in the market for a PC CRT while they are still (relatively) cheap, but I have two questions.
1) I have a modern Alienware gaming laptop with Mini DP, HDMI, and Thunderbolt 3. What would be required to convert this to VGA in order to achieve high resolutions and refresh rates, like 1600x1200 at 75Hz?
2) As far as 480p consoles, I currently have a Wii set up with an HDD, and may get a Dreamcast in the future. I know DC does native VGA, but what are my options for converting my Wii's YPbPr signal to VGA (Assuming it will need to be RGBHV)? I see Mayflash made a combo VGA cable for Wii and PS3. I can find one of these for relatively cheap in my area but I wonder if it will impact IQ at all.
Thanks!


1) If the mdp is dp++ certified (likely) all you need is a cable like this https://www.scorptec.com.au/product/Cab ... gKlgvD_BwE

2) Something like this https://www.beharbros.com/garolite or https://www.aliexpress.com/item/650312848.html More options here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59613


Thanks very much for the reply. Is there an advantage in terms of using mdp over type-c? In terms of pixel pushing, since I'd like to get a monitor running at a high refresh rate. Almost all of the ones I find on Amazon say they are rated for 1080p60hz, but I wonder if they can go beyond that spec when used on a CRT.
I'll skim through the GBS thread, I haven't looked enough into that product. The Garo Lite seems like an easy plug and play solution though.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:13 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 433
Nogame wrote:
The monitor should provide a way to adjust the curvature. I cannot replace capacitors or perform similar repairs anyway, and no one else is willing to do the work. A simple adjustment would at least improve the geometry. I am stuck unless manuals can be found or someone knows how to fully operate a similar low-cost Ikegami monitor and is willing to advise. The monitor may just be cheap and not worthy of repair.


In the event that it doesn't have a pot for this specific adjustment, I'd say you should consider it very likely that the simple replacement of a few capacitors will fix the issue.

I had never really soldered anything until I recapped my BVM. With decent equipment, it's quite easy. Please consider giving it a shot before you abandon the monitor.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:54 am 


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This monitor has no pincushion adjustment trimpots apparently. As mentioned before, the only two pots that might have helped only have a identical trapezoidal effect. A manual cannot be found, so I can only guess that the monitor is either defective or poorly designed. One of the pots is located on a unusual small board which is attached to the main deflection board. It has the same effect though, and I don't know why.

I can't replace the capacitors since it would be too difficult. Regardless, the problem could still exist after such work, or more problems could be created. The monitor will just sit for now, but I'd avoid the cheap 17 series. I can't believe Ikegami made a monitor like this having no vertical deflection adjustments. Any PVM would be better - even if you like shadow mask tubes.


Last edited by Nogame on Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:01 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
ZTylerDurden wrote:
In terms of retro home consoles in the US, why didn't we care about tapping into RGB back then and now we do?

Probably a combination of things, like Internet culture still being in its infancy, and RGB and/or SCART not being made available. The way I understand it, no one here really knew about RGB in a consumer/gaming context, so I imagine there wasn't much demand for it.


It took a very, very long time in gaming terms for the bare minimum to catch up. Master System was among the first RGB ready consoles in the US, a full twenty years later PS3 still gave only composite in the box.


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