Another nOOb recently infected.

Hair Farmer · Post by **Hair Farmer** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:57 pm

Hello!

My interest in some old-school/retro games eventually brought me here, and I found myself returning to hover around awhile. It recently dawned on me that this has became a pretty regular habit. Lots of great info, reviews, insight and discussions BTW.

Now, I have casually played a few shmups in the past, but feel that I am relatively new to the scene. I don't have a history with the genre like a lot of people seem to have here. So, I've been reading up on alot of threads here and at some other sites.

And now I finally got the courage to register and ask my silly noob question: does it matter where to start?

I mean, if I try a more recent shmup and then try an older one, will the older one feel dated or bland? Obviously I'll have to feel my own way through what I personally gravitate towards, but I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the tasty options and have a limited budget.

I got Gradius V, R-Type Final and Castle Shikigami on the way and am dusting off my Dreamcast for another go round with Mars Matrix and Giga Wing and uh, Twinkle Star Sprites. I really want to check out all these CAVE shooters I keep reading about and am budgeting to start importing what I can--but already my wallet is feeling light.

What's a good way to sample more of the genre without just getting every single shmup in sight? I seem to fall in love with every screen shot I see with every new (to me) game I come across. Any suggestions?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:05 pm

Welcome to you.

As for what to sample, you might want to poke around the results of our recently-completed annual Top 25 vote (should be here in the Shmups Chat section), where anyone here with ample shmup experience who wants to can submit a list of his/her favorites, with everyone's votes eventually being tallied into a single list of, theoretically, the forum's favorites. Check both the 25 and the Honorable Mentions list, they should give you a decent mixture of things to try, with at least some assurance of quality therein.

Hope you find some stuff you like!

benj · Post by **benj** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:14 pm

Damn, no one ever welcomed me to the forum. Guess I should have made a "Look at me!" thread, too...

As for shooters when you are on a budget: Try out some doujins, not only are they usually cheaper than console games, they also have trial versions, so you'll know if they are worth a purchase.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:29 pm

benj wrote:As for shooters when you are on a budget: Try out some doujins, not only are they usually cheaper than console games, they also have trial versions, so you'll know if they are worth a purchase.

*smacks self* Doggone it, how could I forget to mention this...what benj (who I belatedly offer a warm welcome to the site

) says is true, and it just to happens that postman, one of our forum members, runs a nifty site (www.shootthecore.com) which contains a "PC Shmup Database" with a HUGE amount of links to demo/freeware shmups, with new ones added regularly: click this link and browse, but be warned, you could be there awhile...not like you'll mind.

As for where to start as far as that site goes, my demo recommendations are the Shikigami no Shiro games, Perfect Cherry Blossom, Imperishable Night, Hitogata Happa, and Bike Banditz, among others. For full freeware games I suggest Cho Ren Sha 68K, Warning Forever, and rRootage. Of course, look around and find the ones you like best.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:35 pm

Welcome Hair Farmer and benj

Sexy doll avatars are good, but William Shatner is cool too I suppose.

Have a look at the Xenocide Files section, although personally it wasn't so good because it makes me want to play (and buy) every single game there. But that, the top 25, and asking people here can at least help you prioritise your purchases.

I started out with Ikaruga, and then went to much older titles from the 16-bit generation while still keeping one foot firmly planted in new releases. They are very different experiences, but keep in mind that retro collecting can be very cheap, but could very easily be more expensive than buying new releases. For example, you could buy a bucket full of Genesis shooters (and some of them are pretty good too) from ebgames' website, or you could buy Sylphia for PC-Engine on eBay.

To be honest, many 8-bit shooters do feel dated and bland to me (OMG graphics whore) but I think many Genesis games still look fantastic.

One more thing for the light of wallet: Depending on your personal ethics, you may want to install MAME on your computer. Yes it is emulation and you will have to download ROMs, but it is a good way to sample some of the very best games and its use is quite widespread on this forum.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:40 pm

Hiya and welcome to the forum!
And a belated welcome to benj as well!

Anyway you've got some high profile shmups on the way which (although not my fav's) will give you a good intro in the scene.

As for where to start, I'd propose to start where most great stories start: at (or near) the beginning. Geting straight to the new releases will have you underappreciating the roots imo.

Try and get some 8-bit/16-bit (buy or dwnload an emu) stuff first before you play the rest. Play the classics (Gradius/R-type/Xevious/Parodius/194x's) and after sufficient playtime there's always the option to move forward in time and get the pachi's/garregas and other stuff.

And just so you know: getting acquainted with "Salamander" (preferably the MSX version) is a must!

*shameless plug for my all time fave and a first step in getting it in the annual top 25*

al138 · Post by **al138** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:41 pm

If you do not wish to start out in the 16-bit era, you could always score a number of cheap PSX titles. And if you have a limited budget, its a good option. If you live in the States, the used bins at Gamestop and EB are treasure troves for shooter titles (provided that you aren't too picky about having the complete game package since many no longer have manuals). Granted, you will not find the masterpiece titles like R-Type Delta and Einhander in this fashion, but there is still plenty to enjoy.

Just the other week I saw some of the following titles at my local Gamestop--all of which were under $10:

G-Darius (the best of the bunch, I think)
Thunder Force V Perfect System
RayStorm
RayCrisis
Strikers 1945
Shooter Starfighter Sanvein
Gekioh Shooting King
R-Types (old school action!)
Mobile Light Force (Poor localization of a decent Gunbird port)

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:44 pm

An advice concerning emulation: don't focus just on MAME. Although at first glance all shooters look similar, they play different and a lot of the genre's past "evolutions" have been achieved on home systems. Look around as much as possible.

Read online fanpages and articles - yeah, reading is a good introduction too - someone can put on words a game's beauty that would require dedication to uncover by yourself.

Also an advice concerning money - if you plan to ebay some old classics, avoid the pricey ones at first. Leave them for last; no matter how many times you are being told "this game truly is worthy its price" - it's always a matter of relative taste, and there's plenty of good shmups cheaper.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:47 pm

al138 wrote:Just the other week I saw some of the following titles at my local Gamestop--all of which were under $10:

G-Darius (the best of the bunch, I think)

Actually, that would be the one to avoid, since a better version of the same game can be found on Taito Legends 2 (PS2) for around the same price. (and it comes with plenty of other games too)

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:08 pm

Welcome.

al138 · Post by **al138** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:17 pm

Turrican wrote:
al138 wrote:Just the other week I saw some of the following titles at my local Gamestop--all of which were under $10:

G-Darius (the best of the bunch, I think)
Actually, that would be the one to avoid, since a better version of the same game can be found on Taito Legends 2 (PS2) for around the same price. (and it comes with plenty of other games too)

Agreed, but unless the poster lives in Europe/Asia, doesn't mind importing, or has the patience to wait until the US version is released, the PSX version is a good port at a decent price (under $5).

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:21 pm

al138 wrote:Agreed, but unless the poster is in Europe/Asia, doesn't mind importing, or has the patience to wait until the US version is released, the PSX version is a good port at a decent price (under $5).

Agreed. I really shouldn't have replied to you on this nitpicky issue, since Hair Farmer is a newcomer and would appreciate the game nonetheless. So yeah, go for it if you find it cheap. Quality game.

dai jou bu · Post by **dai jou bu** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:43 pm

There should be a sticky somewhere about the best shmups/demos you can get for the PC here. Although Shoot the Core has a lot, it's kind of difficult to wade through it all as well, since the recommended stuff is mixed in with everything else on there.

Bloodreign · Post by **Bloodreign** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:41 am

I couldn't wait for Taito Legends 2 to hit the US either, so I picked up G-Darius off Ebay for about 10 bucks, can't wait to play it anyway.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:20 am

A japanese PS2 is pretty essential for the new cave shooters right now. It is a fair bit of cash (tax can be heavy) to get one imported along with a game. Look at www.play-asia.com for decent prices and delivery.

The best and cheapest way to get into things is via mame. Get everything made by cave, psykyo and raizing. You should be quite busy after that.

chempop · Post by **chempop** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:26 am

Welcome to the forum. Those three ps2 games are great choices which countless hours could be spent playing. I would try to fully appreciate each one before you buy anything else. R-type I just couldn't get into, but the other 2 are amazing.

I guess I'll be the person who reminds about the glory of Tate (turning tv on its side for a longer screen). This is a MUST for games with verticle positioning, unless you are using a huge tv. Remember to unplug the tv before and after rotating for roughly 10 min, then plug back in and enjoy.

I'm sure any questions on Tate can be answered, don't be careless and destroy your tv.

My advice would be to check out mame, and like the previous poster mentioned get a couple Cave, Psikyo, and 8ing games, they run quite well imho. You might want to pick up a cheap USB controller, the Sega Saturn USB pad is quite popular.

It sounds like you have yet to exploit the Dreamcast library of shmups. I would get a boot disk and check out some imports. I'm in the same boat though, all those tasty titles on PS2 are tempting me, but mame is certainly biding my time. I guess modding your system might be a decent idea though.

I usually suggest looking into Sega Saturn, but games can get pricey and many titles are being rereleased on PS2 in compilations.

sjewkestheloon · Post by **sjewkestheloon** » Mon May 01, 2006 9:58 am

hey man.

yeah as has been said get a couple, 2 or 3 games, and spend a lot of time with them. this is advice from someone who has a tensency to buy a lot of stuff so take it with a pinch of salt

the stuff you have already though is enough to last you a long while, gradius v alone demanding a lot of time to get anywhere at all. i've only started to appreciate it after about 8-10 hours of play and i am getting nearer to a consistent 1 credit to stage 3. the boss rush in stage 2 is so punishing for me

and of course i recommend you set yourself goals set around the use of 1 credit. start off with minor improvements of score and then increases in stage, all coming together with that ellusive 1cc.

but anyway welcome and have fun.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:20 pm

Not to be heretical, but just install MAME and some Cave, Raizing, and Psikyo titles (and others -- Layer Section comes to mind, as does Blazing Star). If you come down with a serious case of the shooting love you'll want to own these all for real anyway.

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:31 pm

Thirding (fourthing, fifthing?) MAME. Cave, Raizing, Psikyo. Those are the big 3 for modern vertical scrollers. Pretty much everything through 2001 is playable.

As for more recent games on PS2, if you like Cave, I'd recommend either ESPGaluda (easy) or DoDonpachi Daioujou (hard). If you like Raizing's stuff, try Ibara, which was developed by Cave under the former diector of Raizing shooters. Psikyo has Zero Gunner 2 on the Dreamcast, but it's way different from their 2D games. It's still a scrolling shooter with 2D gameplay, but you can spin around 360 degrees and shoot in all directions, pretty cool game.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Mon May 01, 2006 6:04 pm

Welcome aboard.

Although it's considered illegal to some people, you should download MAME and try to find some Arcade Roms. Plenty to get you started and some games even have console ports in case you want to go legal.

Hair Farmer · Post by **Hair Farmer** » Tue May 02, 2006 4:51 am

Wow! Thank you all for the warm welcome and replies. It looks like I will indeed be very busy. I have a Saturn and some games in storage I'll have to dig out and see if it still runs.

Regarding MAME, is it easy to do on a Mac (MacMAME)? (I know I can do a google search and find out, but thought that a quick informed answer would be easier to get with all you experienced vets here). Do I have to get a PC to fully enjoy the MAME experience?

I did download and sample rRootage. Right now some of the references are lost on me and I'm pretty lame at it. I'd love to check out some stuff like Perfect Cherry Blossom as well.

I'll continue to hover around quietly and occasionally ask questions. Looking forward to chatting, growing my collection and my skills. Cheers.

chempop · Post by **chempop** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:42 am

Dust off that old Saturn mate you'll be happy you never sold it. There is quite an extensive shmup library on that old Sega beast. Start saving for Layer Section (aka Galactic Attack), Soukyugurentai Otokuyo, and Dodonpachi (roughly $100 total for all three) but you'll need a pro-action-replay or other means of playing imports. Well worth it though, it will open up your options and I think japanese Saturn is one of the best shmup consoles.

Again, I want to stress to you how big a difference rotating your TV will make for games that use vertical screen positioning. It can be a bitch (and possibly harmful) to keep having to switch your TV around, maybe you can find a cheap one to designate for Tate. Just a thought.

I am also a Mac user, and I have had a good deal of success and hours of fun with MacMame. There was a point when all my Roms started glitching out (sound, framerate, etc), but reinstalling the newest version seemed to do the trick. I have to say though, only about half of the Roms I download actually work, but I think the problem isn't related to using a Mac, but just faulty Roms or something.

I'm pretty new to it all as well, using Mame has really opened up my eyes and helped me decide which games I need in my collection. It has also made it possible for me to play games that never made a console (and I won't be able to afford original PCB's an time in the near future). Using a keyboard sucks though, right now I'm in the market for either a USB controller or an adaptor of some sort so I can use a GC or PS2 controller.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:31 pm

MacMAME is fine, but watch out for the newest versions. The one I downloaded a month or two ago didn't allow the user to reconfigure any keys. Not sure if that's fixed yet -- if you encounter that problem, dl an older version.