Wiidual issues

[andykara2003]

I didn't want to clutter the Wiidual thread with my inevitably convoluted and possibly inane questions so I'm posting here.

I've just had my Wii modded with Wiidual. I'm only interested in it's analogue signal as I'm using it with my NEC XV29+ CRT . The signal chain is: Wiidual -> Extron 203Rxi -> NEC. The Wii's connected to the Extron using the retro access Wiidual csync RGB scart cable, which they altered for me so that it has a VGA/DE15 plug instead of the scart plug. Then the Extron outputs to the monitor via the official Extron BNC to DE-15 cable.

I have a couple of problems. One is that although an image can the picture will occasionally blank out and sporadically flicker as shown in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JaAI4L2zeU

This happens when first powering on the console and also here and there - often when there's a screen of pure white.


The other is that there is a kind of wavering around the edges of some contrasting colours as shown in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGUR8Hxj768

It looks more prominent in person.


I know that the NEC XM/XV/XP monitors need a sync stripper for 15Khz scart - could this be the case here as well? I don't know enough to be sure, but I was under the impression that the Extron should take the RGB signal from Wiidual and output RGBHV with the correct HV sync for the NEC. The NEC works fine with my Gamecube + VGA modded D terminal cable via the same Extron, so I'm not sure what the problem could be here.

Also, the odd thing is that I only get an image with the correct colours when I set the Wiidual to RGsB - sync on green. This seems a bit odd to me - Setting it to RGB gets only occasional flickering. The only way to get the right colours is by setting the Extron like this:



Down is off. Oddly, 'mono audio left' has to be on to get an image. I'm guessing this has to be something to do with sync. Do I need to get a sync stripper in the chain? And if so, where should it go - inbetween the Wiidual and the Extron, or between the Extron and the monitor?

[Link83]

Its not clear to me how your WiiDual has been configured/installed Which pins have the H/V/CSYNC been connected to? How has the DE-15 cable been configured for sync? Has the WiiDual been setup for TTL or 75ohm CSYNC?

[andykara2003]

The Wiidual mod was done by Video game perfection (Matt Buxton's company - Bucko on here), so should be a good install. They have c-sync routed to pin 15 so as to be compatible with the Retro access cable I had made up (also great guys). On their site, it says the DE-15 cable is set up for c-sync They altered the cable to have a DE-15 plug instead of scart - could this be a possible source of the problem?

https://retro-access.com/products/wiidu ... cart-cable

The Extron manual says this about sync under 'features':

"Automatic sync stripping — Sync signals are automatically stripped from the red, green,
and blue video input signals. The interfaces normally output sync simultaneously as separate
horizontal and vertical sync and as composite"

https://media.extron.com/public/downloa ... 203Rxi.pdf

It says "and as composite", as well as H&V. would that mean that resulting signal would still need to go through a sync stripper to get rid of composite sync so as to play nicely with my NEC?

[Link83]

Well on the most recent GCDual boards there is a jumper that selects between 75ohm or TTL CSYNC. I dont know if the WiiDual is the same, but assuming it is then its possible its been configured for 75ohm CSYNC with the expectation that it would be used with a SCART cable, but the Extron is possibly expecting TTL CSYNC.

If your WiiDual has been setup with TTL HSYNC and VSYNC output options as well (Which is possible but is not the typical installation) then the simplest way to sort it would be to use a DE-15 cable that uses these signals instead of CSYNC.

This is just a guess though, hard to say for sure without more details.

[andykara2003]

Thanks for this - I think the Wiidual's sync level isn't TTL as it's designed to work with Retro-access's scart cable.

In the Extron manual, it has this to say about sync:

Sync
Input type ...................................... RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, RsGsBs
Output type ................................... RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB
Input level ...................................... 2 V to 5.5 Vp-p with ±0.2 VDC offset max.
Output level ................................... TTL: 4V to 5V p-p, unterminated
Input impedance ............................ 510 ohms
Output impedance ......................... 75 ohms
Max. propagation delay .................. 85 ns
Max. rise/fall time ........................... 2 ns
Polarity ........................................... RGBHV: tracks polarity (or force negative sync via internal jumper)
RGBS, RGsB: negative


Excuse my ignorance here - from this, it looks like the input level is 2v to 5.5v and the output is TTL.

It looks like the monitor accepts TTL. From the manual:

RGB terminal:
Mini D-SUB 15pin:Video : 0.7Vp-p/75 Ohms (Positive)
Sync. Separate Sync. TTL level
Horizontal Sync. (positive/negative)
Vertical Sync. (positive/negative)
Composite Sync. TTL Level (positive/negative)
Composite Sync. On Green Video 0.3Vp-p (Negative)

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/10986 ... ml?page=25

So from all this, it would seem that the TTL sync output from the Extron is compatible with the monitor so that's fine. The Extron expects the input to be "2 V to 5.5 Vp-p with ±0.2 VDC offset max.". Not sure what that means - would normal level (non-TTL) sync fall within those specifications?

[fernan1234]

I use a WiiDual with the exact same cable as you (as in, a CSYNC RGBS cable customized with a DE-15 connector, by Retro-Access). I have not had these problems with a BVM. I'd first suspect the NEC XV being the source of the issue, as those are known to be picky about sync in some cases. In my case I actually skip the Extron Rxi in my setup because I don't like what it does to the top 6 or so lines of a 15khz picture (they become variably longer than the rest), so instead the WiiDual goes into an Extron SW (which simply passes through what it gets) and into my BVM via a DB-15 to BNC cable. For me, RGBS and RGsB work identical except one is shifted horizontally a bit more than the other.

Since RGsB works best so far for you, have tried also setting RGsB output on the Extron Rxi and only connecting the color lines? (Assuming the XV can accept internal sync).

After reading your last post I'm also recalling that I used to have a SCART switch that seemed to have a TTL/75ohm toggle for the output, and when I hooked it to the Extron Rxi with a simple SCART to DB-15 cable some signals only worked when set to TTL, which made me believe that the Rxi tends to work best with TTL inputs.

[Link83]

So from all this, it would seem that the TTL sync output from the Extron is compatible with the monitor so that's fine. The Extron expects the input to be "2 V to 5.5 Vp-p with ±0.2 VDC offset max.". Not sure what that means - would normal level (non-TTL) sync fall within those specifications?

It sounds like the Extron is expecting TTL level sync, but the WiiDual is likely outputting 75ohm CSYNC. The main choices as I see it are:-
-Take apart the Wii and modify the WiiDual to output TTL level CSYNC instead, this will allow you to continue using the Retro-Access DE-15 RGBS cable you already have.
-Find out if your WiiDual installation has been configured for TTL HSYNC and VSYNC output as well, if so you just need a new DE-15 cable thats wired for RGBHV instead. This would give you RGBHV output directly from the Wii, just like your modified GameCube D-Terminal cable.

...I guess perhaps you could also make up some custom cable with an LM1881 sync stripper inside to restore the CSYNC to TTL level? However I have never used one so cant give any more info about that.

After reading your last post I'm also recalling that I used to have a SCART switch that seemed to have a TTL/75ohm toggle for the output, and when I hooked it to the Extron Rxi with a simple SCART to DB-15 cable some signals only worked when set to TTL, which made me believe that the Rxi tends to work best with TTL inputs.

This means your actual WiiDual installation is setup to output TTL level CSYNC, and there is a resistor and switch in the SCART cable to allow you to select between the two types. Unfortunately it seems like andykara's WiiDual has likely been configured to output 75ohm CSYNC directly, which I have to say is the most common/expected use for CSYNC and does help prevent inexperienced users from damaging anything when using cables without attenuation.

Personally I always like to stick to one format or the other, for instance if the signals are RGBS, then I want CSYNC to be 75ohm and output over a SCART connector. If the signals are RGBHV, then I want HSYNC and VSYNC to be TTL level and output over a DE-15 connector. I dont like to mix and match with RGBS over a DE-15 connector if it can be avoided, since its causes complications when you cant be sure how everything is wired, or what signal levels everything is outputting or expecting.

[Lawfer]

Did you try hooking it directly to another CRT monitor?

[andykara2003]

Since RGsB works best so far for you, have tried also setting RGsB output on the Extron Rxi and only connecting the color lines? (Assuming the XV can accept internal sync).

I haven't, thanks, I'll have look into this if adjusting the Wiidual for TTL doesn't work.

which made me believe that the Rxi tends to work best with TTL inputs.

I think this might be key - Fudoh knows this unit well, so I've PM'd him to find out.

It sounds like the Extron is expecting TTL level sync, but the WiiDual is likely outputting 75ohm CSYNC. The main choices as I see it are:-
-Take apart the Wii and modify the WiiDual to output TTL level CSYNC instead, this will allow you to continue using the Retro-Access DE-15 RGBS cable you already have.
-Find out if your WiiDual installation has been configured for TTL HSYNC and VSYNC output as well, if so you just need a new DE-15 cable thats wired for RGBHV instead. This would give you RGBHV output directly from the Wii, just like your modified GameCube D-Terminal cable.

I think you're right. Apparently there's a jumper on the mod that can be adjusted to produce TTL sync, so I'll look into that.

...I guess perhaps you could also make up some custom cable with an LM1881 sync stripper inside to restore the CSYNC to TTL level? However I have never used one so cant give any more info about that.

Definitely something to try if removing the TTL jumper doesn't work, thanks.

[fernan1234]

This means your actual WiiDual installation is setup to output TTL level CSYNC, and there is a resistor and switch in the SCART cable to allow you to select between the two types. Unfortunately it seems like andykara's WiiDual has likely been configured to output 75ohm CSYNC directly, which I have to say is the most common/expected use for CSYNC and does help prevent inexperienced users from damaging anything when using cables without attenuation.

I don't think this is the case. I used the same WiiDual Wii with the non-custom SCART cable as well. It was for other systems that I had to use the TTL toggle on the SCART switch I used back then.


And to use RGsB from the Extron Rxi you only need to flip the SOG dip switch. I'd try that first, though it does sound like the problem is on the input side.

[andykara2003]

Thanks so much everyone, really appreciated all the advice. I just got an email from Matt saying to ditch the Extron as he had to do the same due to issues with his Megaview. I've now done the same. On it's own, the Wiidual gives a beautiful image with no crawling/wavering and no sync problems - so I'll just manually change over the cables from Wii to GC in the future. The mod has definitely breathed new life into the Wii for me - looking forward to playing Mario galaxy 1&2 back to back :)