Japanese bias on shooters.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:39 am

I have something for japanese made shooters. I can't recall ever coming across any memorable other ones. I realize that they are by nature a japanese genre...but surly there must bee some other nationalities making good shmups.

I guess i'm limiting my gaming by only playing japanese shmups. Unless you know of any games to change my mind.....

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:00 am

The shooter is by origin a US genre. Have you tried Tyrian (normal or 2000) and Raptor? They're generally thought of as OK US shooters. Europe has Apidya, which some people on this forum like. Taiwan's IGS has made some shooters, perhaps the most well reputed is the average Sinistron, but most people can't stand their games.

If you're looking for a modern-day non-JP true shooter that a large majority believe is an excellent game, you sadly won't find it.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:20 am

Ok yeah, i have played the first game Tyrian. I just don't care for tha more 80's arccade shmups. (Sinistar)*Shudders*. So basically it is as i thought the only new shmups are anime ones and hommade ones like my game. I was just curious.

I don't wat to sould ignorant here but it seems like the Japanese just have such nice sprites and art in their games, while some other countries just try to make passable graphics. (Maybe i just like shiny orbs i dunno).

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:41 am

Ganelon wrote:The shooter is by origin a US genre.

Doesn't Space Invaders predate any of them? Or even Galaxian for that matter?

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:04 am

For some reason Nanostray and Iridion II by Shin'en are somewhat well-received and relatively recent European titles.

Personally I can't stand them, especially Nanostray. Style over substance.

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:06 am

Spacewar was the first iirc, if you consider that a shmup.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:13 am

I love Defender..... and Deluxe Galaga.

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:46 am

Dandy J wrote:Spacewar was the first iirc, if you consider that a shmup.

Yeah wasn't that the one that used punch cards? I could be wrong

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:44 am

The Amiga had heaps of German made shooters apart from Apidya didnt it? Most of the Amiga stuff I play are the German fantasy rpg's...I guess I should check some more of the shooters out.

Shocky · Post by **Shocky** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:17 am

The germans did Apidya, X-Out, Z-Out and many others, but the british made many classic Amiga shmups too (Project X, Xenon I-II, Agony, Awesome..), they had very high standards for graphics and music. I think Disposable Hero was done by dutch ex-demo coders?

Anyways, that was ten years ago. Nowadays the japanese seem to totally dominate the genre, with only some random stuff appearing from other parts of the world (for example Jets'n'Guns, made by guys from the Czech Republic).

Maybe it was the americans who did the first game involving shooting someone in space, but I think it was Gradius that really made a difference and started the japanese world domination. Seems like the rest of the world just doesn't have the patience anymore to try and compete.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:45 am

Pixel_Outlaw wrote:I guess i'm limiting my gaming by only playing japanese shmups. Unless you know of any games to change my mind.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_2000

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:50 pm

American shooters pretty much died out by the late 80s with the arcade death, and I don't think that many were made to begin with.

Europe produced many high-quality shooters for homecomputer systems like C64/Amiga in the late 80s-early 90s. What's interesting is that these shooters, were very heavily influenced by Japanese games, as evidenced most clearly by the title of Apidya being written in Katakana for example. A couple more European shooters were made for PS1 (X-2, Retro Force) but soon developers like Psygnosis and Factor 5 were intervoven in the fabric of mainstream US gaming industry. Most of the remaining Euroshmup developers are still people that got their start on the Amiga, such as Shin'en in Germany.

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:08 pm

Thunder Force wrote:
Pixel_Outlaw wrote:I guess i'm limiting my gaming by only playing japanese shmups. Unless you know of any games to change my mind.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_2000

Aw cmon

Shocky has a bloody lot more convincing arguments

Post by **Shatterhand** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:28 pm

I don't know any shmups made outside from Japan that have been released commercialy.

There was a brazilian shmup being made by a guy who used to post here a LOONG time ago (Once a time the Xenocide files was "99% credited to him" ), but I dunno where that went.

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:07 pm

Unfortunately, these days there's only a market in Japan for shooting games, outside of us weird obsessives.

Hence, that's where a lot of the games tend to come from. There were great games from European developers back in the days when the Spectrum, C64 and Amiga were big over here -- the US was more into the early consoles, whereas Europe was more into the early home computers -- but sadly virtually all of these small developers are either defunct or making more mainstream games.

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:01 pm

I just really don't think that most Western developers 'get it' as far as this type of game design goes. The only Western-produced games of this type that I like are the early Williams games and the Jeff Minter stuff. Even the more highly regarded Western-developed shmups have a completely different feel (and look) than the Japanese games.

Obviously most games aren't that bad, but still, whenever anyone mentions 'Euro shmup' to me, it somehow brings back memories of Retro Force...

Post by **Shatterhand** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:45 pm

I really should get Retro Force someday just to see what's all the fuss about.

zaphod · Post by **zaphod** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:50 pm

Lets ook at all the easrly arcade shmups.

SPace INvaders=Japan. Taito
Galaxian/Galaga=Japan. Namco
Xevious=Japan. Namco again.
Scramble: Japan (Konami)
Gradius=Japan (Konami)

The genre was INVENTED in Japan, not the USA. it is NOT a us invention.

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:46 pm

Well, that depends on whether you're in the camp that considers Space Invaders the first game in the genre, or the camp that considers Space War the first game in the genre.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:55 pm

Eps wrote:Well, that depends on whether you're in the camp that considers Space Invaders the first game in the genre, or the camp that considers Space War the first game in the genre.

I don't consider Space War any more of a shmup than, say, Tank (i.e 2600 Combat). But even if one considers this a proper proto-shmup, Space Invaders is clearly the game that put the genre on the map. In Japan there was a shortage of the 100yen coin back in 1978 when this game caught fire. Pretty much everything as we love about the genre was born there. I understand the historical significance of Space War, but not so much in terms of the scrolling shooter genere. Heck, I don't even think Space War was all that significant in the video game world in general... it was a huge flop being far too complicated for the beer-and-pretzels crowd... it wasn't until Pong came along that really got the industry off the launch pad so to speak... when they had to come out to Andy Capp's bar and pong test site to "repair" the coin slot because it had jammed-full, they knew they really had something.

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:25 pm

Shatterhand wrote:I really should get Retro Force someday just to see what's all the fuss about.

Believe me, you really shouldn't...

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:17 pm

llabnip wrote:Heck, I don't even think Space War was all that significant in the video game world in general... it was a huge flop being far too complicated for the beer-and-pretzels crowd...

I'm not surprised, considering that the original Space War as made in the early 60s ran on a PDP-1 academic computer, and was consequently never found in the arcades in its true form. There were, however, knock-off versions of it made for arcades, such as Computer Space. As for Space War not being significant in the video game world in general:

! It was one of the first ever videogames and the first such game recognisable as such in the modern sense; Tennis for Two, for example, was played on an oscilloscope. Also, it was the first ever game where you could shoot things. Which is obviously the most important development ever in the history of gaming! Ahem.

Iori Branford · Post by **Iori Branford** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:35 pm

I think any developer from anywhere has at least one good game of every genre in them. Whether those games have actually come out is a matter of opinion and where they put their priorities, of course, but I try not to fall so in love with one particular regional style that I start dismissing all the rest.

If it helps, Stargunner has the traditional super hard difficulty. It's also free now.
http://3drealms.com/stargunner/

Pixel_Outlaw · Post by **Pixel_Outlaw** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:24 am

Yeah i know what you mean.

SamIAm · Post by **SamIAm** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:20 am

Random tidbit: judging by the names in the credits, it appears that Homura was made by a completely Korean dev team.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:54 pm

SamIAm wrote:Random tidbit: judging by the names in the credits, it appears that Homura was made by a completely Korean dev team.

I think that's pretty common knowledge. They also did Psyvariar 2.

Ko.oS · Post by **Ko.oS** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:23 am

There was a brazilian shmup being made by a guy who used to post here a LOONG time ago (Once a time the Xenocide files was "99% credited to him")

that would be LoneWolf, AKA mmmmmmmmmmmmarceloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (/brazilian futbol reporter)

(:oops:)

MASTER SATAN · Post by **MASTER SATAN** » Mon May 01, 2006 9:20 am

Well there is the side scrolling shooter epic, Absolute Blue, for the PC released last year from the german developer Intermediaware (Absolute Blue's development team consisted of a mere two man crew!) The game has very impressive graphics and is very lengthy allowing you to save your game after each level. I'd compare it to a faster moving, more polished version of Nebula Fighter. I highly recommend it.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:22 pm

Space Invaders may have been the first true shooter, but it was heavily inspired by Breakout..

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:01 pm

For Historical Record: SPACEWAR! ™ is the VERY first shmup.

It is also the very first videogame. Although it was not as popular as Pong and not as accessible.

My source: http://www.emuunlim.com/doteaters/

shmups.system11.org

Japanese bias on shooters.

Japanese bias on shooters.

Re: Japanese bias on shooters.

Re: Japanese bias on shooters.