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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:58 am 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2018
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BNC is objectively a superior connector, as it is impedance controlled unlike RCA

dealwithit.jpg


Last edited by maxtherabbit on Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
The people who prefer component over HDMI are probably going to be enthusiasts, who are more likely to want to connect to an extron crosspoint or PVM or some other device using BNC. At the same time, RCA bullet adapters can turn a BNC connector into an RCA connector easily enough.


If I'm not mistaken, I believe component output will provide a higher quality for GBI + OSSC setups, right? The 4:2:2 output lets GBI do some sort of interpolation trick?

GBIHF does a 2x nearest neighbor scale, repeating every pixel twice - when combined with a DAC that upsamples the chroma data using a zero order hold that results in a full 4:4:4 output

(because each luma sample is repeated, ensuring that for every unique luma sample there is a unique chroma sample pair)


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:15 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 150
I have a 480p plasma and PAL gcvideo GCN running Swiss and I want to know if there’s a way to force Swiss to stretch 448p games like F-Zero GX to use the full 480p resolution on the TV. At the moment I get a letterboxed (16 lines above and below) and pillar boxed (desired) image with incorrect AR instead of just a pillar boxed one. I have been using my Extron 301 HD to adjust the AR but it’s a pain in the ass to keep doing every time I switch between games. Is that possible to do with Swiss?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:10 am 


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Are the Wii and GameCube 60Hz or 59.94Hz consoles?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:36 pm 


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strayan wrote:
Is that possible to do with Swiss?

It'd have to be a linear interpolation on the framebuffer to have any kind of reasonable compatibility. Are you sure you want that?
The aspect ratio should be correct regardless, unless it's presenting it as square pixels for some reason.
Lawfer wrote:
Are the Wii and GameCube 60Hz or 59.94Hz consoles?

480i/p is 27000000/858/525, or 60/1.001.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:05 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 150
Extrems wrote:
strayan wrote:
Is that possible to do with Swiss?

The aspect ratio should be correct regardless, unless it's presenting it as square pixels for some reason.


This guy seems to be experiencing a similiar thing: https://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1242

F-Zero looks exactly like it does in his screenshot here (slightly squished, most obvious when displaying circles I find): http://i.imgur.com/vcRJVUu.png

Here's mine (the first photo is Waverace, I just wanted to see what would happen with a 640x480 game (it's still slightly off but I'm getting perfect 1:1 mapping which is obvious from the GCvideo overlay [CRISP!]):

https://imgur.com/a/KEPvNbf

Chain is gcvideo -> extron 301 HD -> DVI input on TV.


Last edited by strayan on Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:30 pm 


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This is what it should look like on a standards-compliant display:


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:34 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 150
Extrems wrote:
This is what it should look like on a standards-compliant display:


Yeah, I'm getting 10:7.

The Swiss GUI fills the total 480 lines as it should (if that's useful info).

GBA games launched with GBI are displayed at the correct 3:2 AR filling the total 480 lines at 3x zoom.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:57 pm 


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More work is needed to get this working, but it would look like this:

Image
strayan wrote:
The Swiss GUI fills the total 480 lines as it should (if that's useful info).

The resolution is meaningless, but Swiss' GUI is designed with square pixels (not my decision).
strayan wrote:
GBA games launched with GBI are displayed at the correct 3:2 AR filling the total 480 lines at 3x zoom.

You mean with GBI set for a 3:2 DAR (which means 1:1 SAR in 480p)?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:10 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
strayan wrote:
Is that possible to do with Swiss?

It'd have to be a linear interpolation on the framebuffer to have any kind of reasonable compatibility. Are you sure you want that?
The aspect ratio should be correct regardless, unless it's presenting it as square pixels for some reason.
Lawfer wrote:
Are the Wii and GameCube 60Hz or 59.94Hz consoles?

480i/p is 27000000/858/525, or 60/1.001.


So it's not 59.94Hz? Just wondering because the OSSC reports 59.87Hz, the 301 at one area reports 60Hz, while in another area it reports 59.93Hz.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:24 pm 


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Location: Kentucky
Lawfer wrote:
Extrems wrote:
strayan wrote:
Is that possible to do with Swiss?

It'd have to be a linear interpolation on the framebuffer to have any kind of reasonable compatibility. Are you sure you want that?
The aspect ratio should be correct regardless, unless it's presenting it as square pixels for some reason.
Lawfer wrote:
Are the Wii and GameCube 60Hz or 59.94Hz consoles?

480i/p is 27000000/858/525, or 60/1.001.


So it's not 59.94Hz? Just wondering because the OSSC reports 59.87Hz, the 301 at one area reports 60Hz, while in another area it reports 59.93Hz.


Hint: try dividing 60 by 1.001 and see what you get.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:36 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
Just wondering because the OSSC reports 59.87Hz, the 301 at one area reports 60Hz, while in another area it reports 59.93Hz.

Those reports are approximations.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:33 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 150
Extrems wrote:
More work is needed to get this working, but it would look like this:

Image
strayan wrote:
The Swiss GUI fills the total 480 lines as it should (if that's useful info).

The resolution is meaningless, but Swiss' GUI is designed with square pixels (not my decision).
strayan wrote:
GBA games launched with GBI are displayed at the correct 3:2 AR filling the total 480 lines at 3x zoom.

You mean with GBI set for a 3:2 DAR (which means 1:1 SAR in 480p)?


Yes GBI set at 3:2.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:34 pm 


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I’m using a crescendo RTC 2200 transcoder to convert YPbPr to the RGBHV needed for my NEC XV29+ CRT monitor. Even though the Crescendo is a good transcoder, I’m picky about getting the best signal and having the fewest instances that might degrade or unnecessarily filter the image as possible. I’m wondering if I might get a slightly better picture by installing the internal GCdual mod and taking RGBHV directly from that mod straight to the monitor, thereby eliminating the Crescendo and having a direct connection.

So I have 2 things to consider - is the RGBHV quality from the GCdual at least as good quality as the official component cables with the same characteristics - no crush or anything like that?

Secondly, will I get a noticeable bump in quality from omitting the Crescendo from the signal chain and going direct to the monitor from the GCdual’s RGBHV output?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:00 pm 


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andykara2003 wrote:
I’m using a crescendo RTC 2200 transcoder to convert YPbPr to the RGBHV needed for my NEC XV29+ CRT monitor. Even though the Crescendo is a good transcoder, I’m picky about getting the best signal and having the fewest instances that might degrade or unnecessarily filter the image as possible. I’m wondering if I might get a slightly better picture by installing the internal GCdual mod and taking RGBHV directly from that mod straight to the monitor, thereby eliminating the Crescendo and having a direct connection.

So I have 2 things to consider - is the RGBHV quality from the GCdual at least as good quality as the official component cables with the same characteristics - no crush or anything like that?

Secondly, will I get a noticeable bump in quality from omitting the Crescendo from the signal chain and going direct to the monitor from the GCdual’s RGBHV output?


GCVideo is converting to RGB as well, so I doubt you'd see any quality improvements. Gamecube has 4:2:2 color compression as well, so that's another reason you're probably not going to gain much.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:05 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1313
Do the grayish whites from the GCHD Mk-II/Carby/GCDual affect only the YPbPr output, or does it also affect the RGB output?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:55 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Do the grayish whites from the GCHD Mk-II/Carby/GCDual affect only the YPbPr output, or does it also affect the RGB output?

I’m keen to find out more on this too - would anyone be able to chime in on this one? I like my whites clean and pristine, but you can clearly see on the comparison of the 3 Warios in MLIG’s video on GCvideo that the GCvideo component whites are a little off compared to the official cable. I’m assuming this is the case with WiiDual as well. Is this just with component, or are RGB/RGBHV outputs affected as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:06 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
Do the grayish whites from the GCHD Mk-II/Carby/GCDual affect only the YPbPr output, or does it also affect the RGB output?

I haven't checked schematics for any of these, but it is possible that they were designed to reach a maximum output level of 0.7V/1.0V(*) for an input value of 255. This would be correct for full-range RGB, but BT.601 seems to indicate that for Y this level should already be reached at value 239. This would result in a slightly reduced white level in YPbPr mode. The best way to compensate for it would be to change the reference value of the DAC so it reaches 0,747V for an input value of 255.

A much worse fix would be to internally re-scale the luma value(**) to reach a maximum of 255 instead of 239, but this will result in uneven luma steps because the output is still only 8 bits. You should be able to approximate this using the contrast adjustment in the picture settings menu - please note that it does not affect the OSD in 2.4d, so you can't use the OSD text as reference white.

GCVideo lite likely also suffers from this problem - but that is still only at version 0.9, which should have been a sufficient warning sign. ;)

(*) 1.0V for Y to allow for 0.3V sync below black
(**) The same effect applies to the chroma channels, but it only results in a slight desaturation there.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:50 pm 


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Thank you for posting this here Unseen. So from this, I guess the only way to guarantee full range analogue is to output RGB.


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