Controller lag

[shmupsrocks]

Has anyone noticed differences in lag when switching controllers? I use a HAS (which I love) and I just tried switching back from a Sigma TB9000 to a Hori Fighting Stick and it feels like slightly lower lag. I use an adapter between the HAS and TB9000 which I suppose must technically add some amount of lag. What are your experiences with controller (and controller adapter) lag?

[Classicgamer]

The only extra lag I have ever noticed is with poor quality Bluetooth pads. I find all wired controllers to be equal in terms of lag.

It's not always the easiest thing to measure as most lag comes from the display and software. It's hard to say how much of it is down to a controller specifically and we are talking about fractions of a second.

Also, poor quality controllers often have a more serious issue - a lack of responsiveness.i.e. Sometimes, you press a button and nothing happens which some confuse with input lag when they miss a combo in Street Fighter 2.

[Xyga]

Depends on the controller and/or adapter:

http://www.teyah.net/sticklag/results.html

https://medium.com/@WydD/controller-inp ... ebfd2c9d60

Some have a lot, in which case it can be a real pain, especially in a setup that's already a bit laggy because it adds up.

[shmupsrocks]

Those are Incredible resources. I don't see any DB15 stuff and wish there were some.

[Xyga]

DB15 is only a connector, what matters lies in the electronics and software.

[shmupsrocks]

Yes but I'd like to stick with controllers I can connect directly to the HAS.

[Xyga]

[energizerfellow‌]

Those are Incredible resources. I don't see any DB15 stuff and wish there were some.

Every stick with a DB15 connector on it that I'm aware of is completely passive. No electronics in it at all. It's simply some wiring and some switches, that's it.

Everything modern with a with DB15 port on it I'm aware of is DIY. Pre-built there isn't much out there other than Neo-Geo sticks.

As for why the Sigma and Hori feel different, it's Semitsu vs whatever Hori/Semitsu/Sanwa joystick and button hardware is being used. Modern Hori sticks use in-house Hori stick/button hardware and USB controller boards.

[Classicgamer]

Those are Incredible resources. I don't see any DB15 stuff and wish there were some.

Every stick with a DB15 connector on it that I'm aware of is completely passive. No electronics in it at all. It's simply some wiring and some switches, that's it.

Everything modern with a with DB15 port on it I'm aware of is DIY. Pre-built there isn't much out there other than Neo-Geo sticks.

As for why the Sigma and Hori feel different, it's Semitsu vs whatever Hori/Semitsu/Sanwa joystick and button hardware is being used. Modern Hori sticks use in-house Hori stick/button hardware and USB controller boards.

I agree. There seems to be a lot of confusion on this topic.

Under the hood, all digital joysticks are just a bunch of micro-switches which apply voltage when pressed. Then the device has to have a way of responding to that voltage with action on-screen. This has to happen regardless if you go through a modern universal serial bus encoder or an older custom arcade I/O.

It's not like RYU in SF2 can read the button presses directly if you go through a DB15 port on a supergun. You are always reliant of software between you and the game.

With PC joysticks there used to be more of a difference between brands because they used custom drivers which sometimes had bloatware. Joystick drivers are mostly standardized with HID devices now (but certainly not always).

Also and perhaps this is the more fundamental point with input lag, is that the benchmark for comparison is the original arcade pcb on a crt, not other joysticks on the same system. The two things most likely to cause noticeable input lag are the use of emulators and flat-screen monitors with image processing. The obvious way to quantify the size of the problem is to compare it to the original PCB on a lag free CRT as it never gets better than that.

I haven't seen anyone compare input lag on original hardware between different cabs with the same game based on the brand of joystick. What would cause the difference?

[Xyga]

There's no confusion, using a non-direct stick like the hori and an adapter (tho he didn't specify what kind of adapter, undamned's?) may introduce some lag.

And it's always better to DIY your sticks hence my soldering iron pic (next time I'll use text).

EDIT: @shmupsrocks, actually they're right there is a bit of confusion because you should have provided detailed information on your hardware, your Sigma to DB15 shouldn't introduce lag AFAIK it's only rewiring (?), and your Hori FS if it's stock can't work on jamma without an adapter (which you didn't mention but I assume you have in the chain when you use it), in which case for the latter, there are actually two possibilities: it's an old Fighting Stick SS with HAS adapter in which case there should be no added lag, or it's a more recent Fighting Stick w/ USB and you're using undamned's decoder, and this is where some lag could be introduced by the stick itself, although you'd have to ask undamned for more info.
Finally it's possible that even in the latter case the lag would be very negligible, if so the difference you're feeling could be mechanical.

[shmupsrocks]

I connect the DB15 Hori directly (it is modded with Sanwa parts BTW) and the Sigma I connect with a passive adapter made by a friend. It's possible that the difference I'm feeling is mechanical. It's a very small difference and I've only tried with Strikers so far but with the Sigma I fairly frequently felt like "that could be lag" after a death and I haven't felt that with the Hori. I feel like I have greater ability to make complex maneuvers and some last-second dodges raised my eyebrows when they worked out.

[Xyga]

I connect the DB15 Hori directly

Well that was crucial information. ^^

Hori's Fighting Stick series vary a lot in design, some have shitty pcb's, but if yours is basically an emptied one with simple direct wiring, then lag-wise it should be identical to your Sigma with passive adapter, and so yeah that would mean you're just experiencing the physical differences between the two sticks...

[BrianC]

I have been testing out various controllers on the PC and Switch by pressing buttons at the same time in fighting games. From the test, I'm under the impression that the RAPV and the Pro Controller have the least amount of input lag. I also tested the former against one of the PS4 RAP4 Kais without the headphone jack and I'm under impression that the Switch controller is more responsive. Surprisingly, the Pokken Tournament EX controller seems to have more lag than most other Switch controllers.

[orange808]

On a PC, your best option is to build (or swap out the internals of a prebuilt controller) and use a raphnet adapter to finish the project.
https://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/u ... /index.php

That way, you know exactly what you're getting.

[shmupsrocks]

So maybe the question should be which controllers provide the lowest lag or the lowest impression of lag through mechanical means.

[energizerfellow‌]

Like I said, that DB15 mod on your Hori is basically guaranteed to be passive wiring with no active electronics in it. You're very likely feeling the difference between Sanwa and Seimitsu. I'd be surprised if you had anything other than a Seimitsu PS-14-G or Sanwa OBSF30. Places like Tech Talk over at the SRK forum talk about the subtle difference between makes and models of sticks and buttons all day long.

[Xyga]

Well he only said his Hori is DB15 modded afterwards, so that was a guess.
For me when someone says the name of a stick (here a Fighting Stick series) I assume one from that series, stock with an adapter.
So you guessed right, and indeed when it's a gutted one completely modded the stick's name/series doesn't matter, it's just a case with wires.

[Classicgamer]

So maybe the question should be which controllers provide the lowest lag or the lowest impression of lag through mechanical means.

Two possibilities:

- One, it's all in your head

- Two, there is poor contact between the joystick shaft and the micro-switches (or micro-switches are worn out) making it feel unresponsive.

I guess there is a 3rd possibility because you didn't state which games were used for the test. If one of those multi-game pcbs are being used with a supergun then the potential issues would be the same as with any mame pc.

You can't have mechanical lag on a digital joystick as the action is binary. I.e. The micro-switch is either pressed or it's not. Once pressed, there is no reason why electricity would travel slower from one micro-switch than another.

We all have joysticks we prefer though.

[shmupsrocks]

Here are internal photos of the Hori and Sigma.

Hori:

https://imgur.com/a/LreY6Kv

Sigma:

https://imgur.com/a/8rkeFzG