@Retro-Bit Might you know why replica Sega controllers never use the same type of flexible nylon/resin(?) material Sega used for the cross actuator piece on original Mega Drive and Sega Saturn controllers? Even the 2004 Sega SLS USB controllers used a different type of plastic than the original controllers:- https://www.finalbeta.jp/update_log/200 ... 20040703_3
This seemingly insignificant change creates a small but noticeable difference in the feel and response of the D-pad. I'm assuming the change is mainly for cost reasons (Cheaper to produce all the plastic parts in just ABS) but it would really be appreciated if you could mention this to the development team, and perhaps suggest that if possible they consider changing the material to match the originals for future batches/revisions - I'm sure its this sort of attention to detail that many retro gamers would really appreciate
Last edited by Link83 on Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Good chance that has something to do with the durability problems seen - the flex in the nylon prevents (was probably originally chosen for) the outright breakage in a stiffer part.
Link83 wrote:This seemingly insignificant change creates a small but noticeable difference in the feel and response of the D-pad. I'm assuming the change is mainly for cost reasons (Cheaper to produce all the plastic parts in just ABS) but it would really be appreciated if you could mention this to the development team, and perhaps suggest that if possible they consider changing the material to match the originals for future batches/revisions - I'm sure its this sort of attention to detail that many retro gamers would really appreciate
Unfortunately, we don't know how SEGA operated back then. We were given the specs and molds and made a few tweaks on our end. Obviously, the brittle actuator batch was not planned and in order to ensure long term durability, we update to a much more durable one. We did testing and reached out to speedrunners and others who would heavily use the D-Pad and found this to be the best solution overall. Let me stress that this wasn't a cost issue, it was a durability issue. We will take your feedback and let the team know but I don't believe we will be reverting back to the previously used plastic.
Link83 wrote:This seemingly insignificant change creates a small but noticeable difference in the feel and response of the D-pad. I'm assuming the change is mainly for cost reasons (Cheaper to produce all the plastic parts in just ABS) but it would really be appreciated if you could mention this to the development team, and perhaps suggest that if possible they consider changing the material to match the originals for future batches/revisions - I'm sure its this sort of attention to detail that many retro gamers would really appreciate
Unfortunately, we don't know how SEGA operated back then. We were given the specs and molds and made a few tweaks on our end. Obviously, the brittle actuator batch was not planned and in order to ensure long term durability, we update to a much more durable one. We did testing and reached out to speedrunners and others who would heavily use the D-Pad and found this to be the best solution overall. Let me stress that this wasn't a cost issue, it was a durability issue. We will take your feedback and let the team know but I don't believe we will be reverting back to the previously used plastic.
Apologies but I think their may be some crossed wires. As far as I know nobody (Including Retro-Bit) has ever used the same flexible nylon type material Sega used on the original Mega Drive and Saturn controllers.
Looking back through this thread I see some people have had problems with the actuators on some early Retro-Bit models, and the design appears to have been changed in new batches (Now uses a screw?) However my post was not intended to be a response to those issues, I was simply hoping that Retro-Bit might consider changing the actuator material to match the original Sega controllers.
As best I can tell from photos online both the original and redesigned Retro-Bit actuator pieces were both made from ABS plastic (As is typical with all third-party Sega style controllers I have seen) My hope was that Retro-Bit might consider changing to use the same nylon type material used in original Sega Mega Drive and Sega Saturn controllers.
Hopefully you can help explain this suggestion to the development team?
Is there a way we can tell if we got one of the brittle actuators? Is there a stamp on them or a specific color we can look out for? I'd rather get it replaced immediately instead of 3 months down the line when it does finally break.
Link83 wrote:As best I can tell from photos online both the original and redesigned Retro-Bit actuator pieces were both made from ABS plastic (As is typical with all third-party Sega style controllers I have seen) My hope was that Retro-Bit might consider changing to use the same nylon type material used in original Sega Mega Drive and Sega Saturn controllers.
Hopefully you can help explain this suggestion to the development team?
No, I understood what you meant. I have let our team know and they will look into it.
BazookaBen wrote:Question for Retro-Bit:
Is there a way we can tell if we got one of the brittle actuators? Is there a stamp on them or a specific color we can look out for? I'd rather get it replaced immediately instead of 3 months down the line when it does finally break.
Unfortunately, there is not unless you open up the controller and apply pressure to the piece (not recommended). Because the pool of defects is small, we are happy to send out replacement actuators if you'd like.
Refreshing to see a company being so transparent with customers, tbh. I have a USB MD pad on the way, but I'll still consider the Saturn pad once all these kinks are worked out.
Heavy Viper wrote:Refreshing to see a company being so transparent with customers, tbh. I have a USB MD pad on the way, but I'll still consider the Saturn pad once all these kinks are worked out.
Thanks! We try our best to keep the community in the loop. If you see a Saturn USB with Switch compatibility, that would be our latest model (internally referred to as Model 2) and should deal with all the tiny issues from before.
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:I can't wait for the BT saturn controllers.
We'll be at Gamescom so there will be more information there as well as reveals for a whole lot of unannounced stuff.
Hey, any hope for Xbox/PS4 compatibility (wired or wireless, though licensed wireless would be GREAT) moving forward? Most third-party stuff has been Switch only, but I just saw the announcement of Power A's fightpads which will cover all three platforms.
Would be great to see you guys follow suit now that the other two platforms seem to be on the table..
bigbadboaz wrote:Hey, any hope for Xbox/PS4 compatibility (wired or wireless, though licensed wireless would be GREAT) moving forward? Most third-party stuff has been Switch only, but I just saw the announcement of Power A's fightpads which will cover all three platforms.
Would be great to see you guys follow suit now that the other two platforms seem to be on the table..
As far as PS4 goes, Brook released firmware for their PS3 to PS4 Super Converter for our SEGA controllers (the non Switch compatible ones).
The Zuck wrote:Is there a way to use the Saturn pads on the PS2?
I don't believe the PS2 is able to detect our SEGA controllers unless you're using an adapter that is able to remap the inputs to PS2 controller mode. However, they are compatible with the PS3.
Last edited by Retro-Bit on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BrianC wrote:Do both versions work in legacy mode on PS4? I know the Hori RAPV for the switch works.
edit: the non-Switch pad partially works in Legacy mode, but the d-pad doesn't work.
Unfortunately, both models do not work seamlessly to the PS4 due to the way the console attempts to map the DPad and other buttons. In some games using Legacy Mode, they would partially function but not intuitively.
BrianC wrote:Do both versions work in legacy mode on PS4? I know the Hori RAPV for the switch works.
edit: the non-Switch pad partially works in Legacy mode, but the d-pad doesn't work.
Unfortunately, both models do not work seamlessly to the PS4 due to the way the console attempts to map the DPad and other buttons. In some games using Legacy Mode, they would partially function but not intuitively.
Thanks for the info. The strange thing is that the buttons are mapped correctly. With some of the 8bitdo controllers, they worked for battle garegga, especially since it has the option to remap the buttons, but the buttons were oddly mapped.
They were shown at GamesCom with the previous release date of Sept. still in place. That's why I'm hoping RB will post again; only found one tiny pic of their shelf display online.
Just thought you might want to run down anything shown that hadn't been previously reported.
the 2.4G Saturn controllers seem to be a common point of interest. So Sept. is more or less realistic? Would love to see some photos since - as above - not finding much online. Any truth to the rumor the form factor of these have been slightly changed?
bigbadboaz wrote:Just thought you might want to run down anything shown that hadn't been previously reported.
the 2.4G Saturn controllers seem to be a common point of interest. So Sept. is more or less realistic? Would love to see some photos since - as above - not finding much online. Any truth to the rumor the form factor of these have been slightly changed?
For the 2.4 GHz Saturn controllers, there will be two colors and each will come with a USB plus a Saturn receiver. We should have a solid timeline for the public very soon. For images, you can check out our social media @retrobitgaming. We have pictures from E3 and Gamescom up that show off the controllers much better.
As far as form factor being changed, not at all. The only adjustment made was for the 500 mAh battery housing. This does not disturb the feel at all.
bigbadboaz wrote:Just thought you might want to run down anything shown that hadn't been previously reported.
the 2.4G Saturn controllers seem to be a common point of interest. So Sept. is more or less realistic? Would love to see some photos since - as above - not finding much online. Any truth to the rumor the form factor of these have been slightly changed?
For the 2.4 GHz Saturn controllers, there will be two colors and each will come with a USB plus a Saturn receiver. We should have a solid timeline for the public very soon. For images, you can check out our social media @retrobitgaming. We have pictures from E3 and Gamescom up that show off the controllers much better.
As far as form factor being changed, not at all. The only adjustment made was for the 500 mAh battery housing. This does not disturb the feel at all.
Why is there no 2.4ghz Saturn controller in black? This is a major, major miss! The vast majority of Saturn consoles are black. Why are we forced to use the laggier bluetooth controller to get a color match to our console???
Johnpv wrote:I see pre-orders are up on Castlemania, will these wireless controllers becoming to Amazon as well?
Of course. We'll be doing the main announcement on those soon.
mario64 wrote:Why is there no 2.4ghz Saturn controller in black? This is a major, major miss! The vast majority of Saturn consoles are black. Why are we forced to use the laggier bluetooth controller to get a color match to our console???
For this run, we wanted to try a different color. Out of all the Saturn controllers, the Slate Grey was the most popular by far while the Clear Blue for Genesis was very popular as well. We decided to combine the two and throughout the last few shows where the public saw them, they were very popular.
That said, if there is enough demand we will produce a black 2.4 GHz Saturn controller.
I never knew there was a clear blue version of the wireless Saturn controller. I really love the looks of the clear blue Mega Drive controller so I’ll probably pick up one of these as well even though I wasn’t planning on it
Johnpv wrote:I see pre-orders are up on Castlemania, will these wireless controllers becoming to Amazon as well?
Of course. We'll be doing the main announcement on those soon.
mario64 wrote:Why is there no 2.4ghz Saturn controller in black? This is a major, major miss! The vast majority of Saturn consoles are black. Why are we forced to use the laggier bluetooth controller to get a color match to our console???
For this run, we wanted to try a different color. Out of all the Saturn controllers, the Slate Grey was the most popular by far while the Clear Blue for Genesis was very popular as well. We decided to combine the two and throughout the last few shows where the public saw them, they were very popular.
That said, if there is enough demand we will produce a black 2.4 GHz Saturn controller.
Thanks for the reply. I’m a bit of a purist so I want my controller to match my system. I assume one could purchase the black BT controller and transplant guts from a 2.4ghz controller? Hate to do that as it essentially doubles the cost but at least it would match my console
Seen the Castlemania pages and they look very promising! I think the Shadow Genesis pad looks much better than the earlier clear blue, though it's Slate Grey Saturn all the way for me regardless.
RB, can you give info as to what kind of response time you managed to get out of these?
mario64 wrote:I assume one could purchase the black BT controller and transplant guts from a 2.4ghz controller? Hate to do that as it essentially doubles the cost but at least it would match my console
I think the housing for the LED lights and rumble would make it difficult.
bigbadboaz wrote:RB, can you give info as to what kind of response time you managed to get out of these?
I don't have the raw numbers currently, but our test teams had the least to say about the latency or any dropped inputs. We're quite proud of what we were able to produce. We hope to share data in the near future.
Any plans for a white colour ( Japanese style ) Saturn 2.4ghz controllers? If not I will be picking up that Slate Gray one once it appears on Amazon UK alongside your other products.
Reminds me a bit of the Skeleton Saturn ( This Is Cool ) edition
mario64 wrote:I assume one could purchase the black BT controller and transplant guts from a 2.4ghz controller? Hate to do that as it essentially doubles the cost but at least it would match my console
I think the housing for the LED lights and rumble would make it difficult.
Which Sega controllers include rumble? It's looking like Bluetooth models only from what I see?
If you see a Saturn USB with Switch compatibility, that would be our latest model (internally referred to as Model 2) and should deal with all the tiny issues from before.
