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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:52 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Is there any disadvantage to making the necessary changes for compatibility in monitors that have issues with the way it is now, or is it kind of a point of pride to leave it as it is?

The disadvantage is increased resource usage.
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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:10 am 



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Extrems wrote:
Looking at the GameCube version, I'm going to guess yes.

[img]Snip

The implementation of this feature is to blame. They didn't special case 480p.


Ahh, I see what you were asking. Yes, both RE0 and RE1 on Wii have a brightness adjustment feature. The thing I would ask then is that if a brightness adjustment feature like this breaks something in the 480p display mode, why is it that only one of these games is affected by it when they both have that feature?

I have RE0 and RE1 on Wii and GameCube; I'm going to try comparing these versions through WiiDual in 480p to see if there are any meaningful differences.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:35 pm 


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The former is deriving from the vertical filter in the render mode object, the latter isn't (need aggressive or game-specific patch).


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:58 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
What I can think of off the top of my head:
[list][*]Blanking regeneration is busted (mis-centered, cut-off images)
This is sidestepped in citrus3000psi's firmware for YPbPr only.

Does this issue affect both the GCDual and the WiiDual? And is this something that can be fixed in a future update for the RGB outputs as well?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:06 pm 


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citrus3000psi has clarified to me that the 4 pixels shift in standard video modes has been fixed in v2.4c.2.

I'm not sure why there's no dYUV equivalent for RGBS and RGsB.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:03 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
I'm not sure why there's no dYUV equivalent for RGBS and RGsB.

The video processing pipeline in 2.4 is GCDV-Decoder -> Linedoubler -> 422-444-Converter ->(1) Blanking-Regen -> Picture adjustments -> Scanline generator -> OSD ->(2) YCbCr-RGB-conversion ->(3) DVI encoder

The standard "dual" version in my repo can switch the analog output between (2) and (3), the versions that are patched to include dYUV probably add a tap at (1).
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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:46 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
citrus3000psi has clarified to me that the 4 pixels shift in standard video modes has been fixed in v2.4c.2.

I'm not sure why there's no dYUV equivalent for RGBS and RGsB.

Sorry i'm slightly confused by your reply - is the 4 pixel shift still an issue in v2.4c.2 for RGBS/RGsB/RGBHV outputs?

If not does this issue only affect specific displays? And is this something that could potentially be fixed in a future firmware update? Or would it be impossible with the current hardware?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:21 pm 


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It's fixed for YUV, RGBS, RGsB, RGBHV and DVI for 720x240p (858x263p), 720x480i (858x525i), 720x480p (858x525p), 720x288p (864x312p), 720x576i (864x625i) and 720x576p (864x625p).


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:51 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
It's fixed for YUV, RGBS, RGsB, RGBHV and DVI for 720x240p (858x263p), 720x480i (858x525i), 720x480p (858x525p), 720x288p (864x312p), 720x576i (864x625i) and 720x576p (864x625p).

Thanks thats great to hear :)


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:43 am 


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Link83 wrote:
Extrems wrote:
It's fixed for YUV, RGBS, RGsB, RGBHV and DVI for 720x240p (858x263p), 720x480i (858x525i), 720x480p (858x525p), 720x288p (864x312p), 720x576i (864x625i) and 720x576p (864x625p).

Thanks thats great to hear :)


What's the purpose of the non 240/480 resolutions? Is all that for home brew stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:06 am 


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288/576 is PAL 50Hz.

I should also specify this is with video timings as specified by the Dolphin/Revolution SDK, not devkitRice libogc. Vertical shifting/clipping may occur.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:47 pm 



Joined: 13 Dec 2016
Posts: 45
Just curious, but any word on when the Pre-Order Round 4 orders will be produced/shipped? I see that the pre-order count of 50 was met, and the webpage says "in production" but it also said that when pre-orders were still being taken.

Not really a big deal if it'll still be a while, but would like to know a general expected by date. Later this month, later in August, not until November?

Much appreciated.

Edit: Gave a follow on Twitter to Dan and got all the information I needed. Sounds like he'll be getting an update on them sometime this coming week.


Last edited by Jdurg on Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:01 pm 



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Having a strange problem with a GCdual Gamecube. Specifically with my Wavebird controller. It's very hard to explain but I'll try. Wired controllers work fine but the Wavebird will only connect to its receiver in two scenarios:

1) If you unplug power to the GC then plug it back in
2) If you power off the GC then change the channel on both receiver and Wavebird

Note that even when it does work it only works once. In other words, let's say i do one of the two options listed above. The Wavebird will connect and work fine ---until--- I power off the GC. After that it will not connect again unless I do step 1 or 2. Normally I would chalk this up to a Wavebird issue but I have two other GC, one with regular GCvideo and an unmodded one. Both of those units do not present these issues using the exact same Wavebird and receiver. So I'm thinking possibly something with the GCdual may not be wired correctly. Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,
mario64


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:13 am 


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mario64 wrote:
Having a strange problem with a GCdual Gamecube. Specifically with my Wavebird controller.

Does it happen on all ports (which could indicate RF interference issues) or only a single one (which could indicate problems with the gamepad connection for GCVideo)?GCVideo)?
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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:17 am 



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Unseen wrote:
mario64 wrote:
Having a strange problem with a GCdual Gamecube. Specifically with my Wavebird controller.

Does it happen on all ports (which could indicate RF interference issues) or only a single one (which could indicate problems with the gamepad connection for GCVideo)?GCVideo)?
Happens on all ports but only with the GCdual GameCube. I’m starting to wonder if the internal power board could be going bad. Had another GC once which was giving me weird problems and that was the culprit


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:30 pm 



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mario64 wrote:
Unseen wrote:
mario64 wrote:
Having a strange problem with a GCdual Gamecube. Specifically with my Wavebird controller.

Does it happen on all ports (which could indicate RF interference issues) or only a single one (which could indicate problems with the gamepad connection for GCVideo)?GCVideo)?
Happens on all ports but only with the GCdual GameCube. I’m starting to wonder if the internal power board could be going bad. Had another GC once which was giving me weird problems and that was the culprit
So I found the problem. It was indeed the GCdual Gamecube's internal power board. I replaced it and now the Wavebird is working properly. This is the 2nd time I've had to deal with squirrely problems stemming from the GC internal power board. In both cases the symptoms have been very strange.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:54 pm 


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mario64 wrote:
So I found the problem. It was indeed the GCdual Gamecube's internal power board. I replaced it and now the Wavebird is working properly. This is the 2nd time I've had to deal with squirrely problems stemming from the GC internal power board. In both cases the symptoms have been very strange.


Did you replace components on the board or just get a donor?

Seems to me that if it's a donor, you could end up replacing components again. Of course, it may be some specific revision that used some flaky caps or something and you just got unlucky.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:59 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
mario64 wrote:
So I found the problem. It was indeed the GCdual Gamecube's internal power board. I replaced it and now the Wavebird is working properly. This is the 2nd time I've had to deal with squirrely problems stemming from the GC internal power board. In both cases the symptoms have been very strange.


Did you replace components on the board or just get a donor?

Seems to me that if it's a donor, you could end up replacing components again. Of course, it may be some specific revision that used some flaky caps or something and you just got unlucky.
I replaced the board itself


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:29 pm 


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Unseen wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
Would you please be kind enough to explain what the introduction of "pixel average on" and "pixel average off" does and what improvements it is supposed to bring in?

"pixel average on" is basically what GCVideo has always done, it calculates the missing color values for every second pixel by averaging the color of the left and right pixel - it's a very common method for interpolating 4:2:2 video to 4:4:4. "pixel average off" in citrus' build probably takes the color of one pixel and applies it either to the left or right one. This can make smooth color transitions look more pixelated, especially for colors that are at the extreme ends of the YCbCr color range (e.g. fully saturated red or blue). extrems probably wants it for GBI, because there he's dealing with non-smooth graphics in the first place and disabling color interpolation can preserve the edges of zoomed pixels.

Quote:
Does it affect (Analog) RGB or only YPbPr?

It should affect everything, because the Gamecube outputs YCbCr 4:2:2 and everything else is derived from that.

Quote:
With the "pixel average off" being shifted left/right, I notice that the circle looks more "pixelized" or "aliased", see the circled part in red on the lower left part of the screen:

If you take two identical screenshots with pixel averaging on and off and flip between them, you'll probably notice that the colors move slightly between them, especially in the areas that appear pixelated. That's because the Gamecube sends the brightness for every pixel, but the color only for every second pixel to save RAM and bandwidth. If you then take that color and apply it either to the left or right brightness-only-pixel, you conceptually "smear" the color towards this direction. With pixel averaging on, the "smearing" happens equally in both directions, so the position of the color channels compared to the brightness channel stays the same.

Would you please consider adding a zero-order hold option (or just abandoning first-order hold entirely if option resources are limited) into the main gcvideo repo? It's the biggest thing holding a pure GCVideo-DVI solution back at this point, in my opinion


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:55 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Would you please consider adding a zero-order hold option (or just abandoning first-order hold entirely if option resources are limited) into the main gcvideo repo?

As I said many times before, Zero-Order-Hold decreases the visual quality for Gamecube games and introduces a slight color shift. I like playing Gamecube games and I do not like them looking even more pixelated than they are, so I removing color interpolation from GCVideo is not an option.

Quote:
It's the biggest thing holding a pure GCVideo-DVI solution back at this point, in my opinion

I do not see why a better image quality would be "holding back" anything.
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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:05 pm 


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Unseen wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Would you please consider adding a zero-order hold option (or just abandoning first-order hold entirely if option resources are limited) into the main gcvideo repo?

As I said many times before, Zero-Order-Hold decreases the visual quality for Gamecube games and introduces a slight color shift. I like playing Gamecube games and I do not like them looking even more pixelated than they are, so I removing color interpolation from GCVideo is not an option.

Quote:
It's the biggest thing holding a pure GCVideo-DVI solution back at this point, in my opinion

I do not see why a better image quality would be "holding back" anything.

I like pixels but ok

Would making it a toggle be feasible then?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:22 pm 


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Been playing Killer 7 on my wiiDual to a projector and I found that the projector *seems* to handle the 480i signal better than the linedoubled output from the wiiDual in that it's a tiny bit sharper. Would this be considered and "unexpected" result?

Perhaps I've overlooked some settings in the wiiDual menu?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:08 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
Been playing Killer 7 on my wiiDual to a projector and I found that the projector *seems* to handle the 480i signal better than the linedoubled output from the wiiDual in that it's a tiny bit sharper. Would this be considered and "unexpected" result?

Perhaps I've overlooked some settings in the wiiDual menu?


No, this is no surprise if your projector is good at handling 480i content. I'm a 480i evangelist so I'm biased, but 480i will always look better than forced 480p or linedoubled 480i on any display that handles 480i well. 480p is only good if that is actually the content's native resolution (and ideally displayed on a monitor with a matching display resolution), or as a compromise for those who only have displays that handle 480i poorly.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:55 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Unseen wrote:
As I said many times before, Zero-Order-Hold decreases the visual quality for Gamecube games and introduces a slight color shift. I like playing Gamecube games and I do not like them looking even more pixelated than they are, so I removing color interpolation from GCVideo is not an option.
Quote:
I like pixels but ok

Would making it a toggle be feasible then?


I agree that a toggle option for nearest-neighbor/zero-order-hold in the 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 conversion would be nice. Frankly, I’ve been holding out on buying a GCvideo device of any kind until that option gets added (that also is a consequence of how non-user-friendly the firmware update processes are for these devices). For an exaggerated but appropriate analogy: imagine if the OSSC only offered interpolated upscaling!

That said, feature creeping an open source project is inherently silly, and I’m of the opinion that if it’s as desirable a feature as we think it is, someone will implement it sooner or later.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:42 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
Been playing Killer 7 on my wiiDual to a projector and I found that the projector *seems* to handle the 480i signal better than the linedoubled output from the wiiDual in that it's a tiny bit sharper. Would this be considered and "unexpected" result?

Perhaps I've overlooked some settings in the wiiDual menu?


No, this is no surprise if your projector is good at handling 480i content. I'm a 480i evangelist so I'm biased, but 480i will always look better than forced 480p or linedoubled 480i on any display that handles 480i well. 480p is only good if that is actually the content's native resolution (and ideally displayed on a monitor with a matching display resolution), or as a compromise for those who only have displays that handle 480i poorly.


Just as a warning, most displays add 1-2 frames of lag for 480i content versus 480p content for the de-interlacer step, so doing the lag-free line doubling on the gchd has a good chance of being a few frames faster.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:33 am 


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Unseen wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Would you please consider adding a zero-order hold option (or just abandoning first-order hold entirely if option resources are limited) into the main gcvideo repo?

As I said many times before, Zero-Order-Hold decreases the visual quality for Gamecube games and introduces a slight color shift. I like playing Gamecube games and I do not like them looking even more pixelated than they are, so I removing color interpolation from GCVideo is not an option.

Quote:
It's the biggest thing holding a pure GCVideo-DVI solution back at this point, in my opinion

I do not see why a better image quality would be "holding back" anything.


I was just googling for more info about zero-order hold and came across this older post in the other thread:-
Extrems wrote:
For chroma upsampling, GCVideo does a linear interpolation while AVE P-DOL (RGBcvS) and CMPV-DOL (YPbPr/RGBHV) do a zero-order hold.

The latter can't normally be observed when using YPbPr, but is preferable for GBIHF when it can be.

If the original encoders used zero-order hold, isn't this something that we should be trying to mimick to be more accurate?

<EDIT> Edited this post as I misunderstood, and this wasnt the cause of the brightness issues in firmware 2.4b and earlier.


Last edited by Link83 on Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:55 am 


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Nothing to do with white levels, and v2.4c.2 did add it, but that's a closed source branch.


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:58 am 


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Extrems wrote:
Nothing to do with white levels, and v2.4c.2 did add it, but that's a closed source branch.

Ah my mistake, i've edited my post accordingly. I thought it was v2.4c that fixed the brightness issues? Or do you mean v2.4c.2 added zero-order hold?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:01 pm 



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So I looked at the comparison pics again after Extrems updated them and the v2.4c.2 has absolutely zero noise. Is that one using the digital HDMI output?


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 Post subject: Re: WiiDual / GCVideo discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:17 pm 


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If there's nothing specified, it's HDMI.


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