4th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Vulgus and Exed Exes aren't good games. Gun.Smoke, though, I should've voted for that. And R-Type Delta.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:10 am

It would be really nice to play Gun.Smoke in a proper vertical orientation. It looks like crap on my tv. Super fun game, though.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:35 am

Rob wrote:Vulgus and Exed Exes aren't good games. Gun.Smoke, though, I should've voted for that. And R-Type Delta.

Great - this will be remembered as the day R-Type Delta lost a precious vote because of Divine Sealing.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:47 am

What is Divine Sealing anyway? Was Rob's vote a joke?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:49 am

professor ganson wrote:What is Divine Sealing anyway?

Unofficially-released Mega Drive hentai shmup, very rare, and apparently also very awful.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:15 am

OK, so Rob's vote for
Biometal-- idiosyncratic
Divine Sealing-- absurd
both amusing

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am

That,s your opinion Rob, but I could a swore I saw somewhere that you enjoyed Exed Eyes I think it was in a thread about how long we play shmups weekly or something like that.

And do you like Divine Sealing?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:56 am

Bio Metal is severely underrated. If it was 70 minutes longer, had 5 useless power-ups and spinning bosses it would be looked upon more favorably imo.

Dale wrote:That,s your opinion Rob, but I could a swore I saw somewhere that you enjoyed Exed Eyes I think it was in a thread about how long we play shmups weekly or something like that.

And do you like Divine Sealing?

I said I play(ed) EE for "5 minutes" implying I don't think much of it. No, I certainly do not like DS for anything but marveling at a remarkably bad game and hilarious Genesis nudes. I went for the cheap laughs with that one.

Ko.oS · Post by **Ko.oS** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:00 am

shite, I just noticed I spelled Gemini Wing(s) wrong :shock:

oh well

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:28 pm

Rob wrote:Bio Metal is severely underrated. If it was 70 minutes longer, had 5 useless power-ups and spinning bosses it would be looked upon more favorably imo.

Or it could have been, you know, smooth and not slowdown plagued. That would have helped too.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:25 pm

Rob wrote:Bio Metal is severely underrated. If it was 70 minutes longer, had 5 useless power-ups and spinning bosses it would be looked upon more favorably imo.

lol-- I haven't played Bio Metal, so my remark about this being an idiosyncratic vote was a statistical observation, not an evaluative judgment. I'm going to get it one of these days.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:55 pm

aventus wrote:Mh I think Gradius for NES should be listed seperately because its a completely different (good) version of the game. And 1943 is also listed for NES and Arcade

is there a reason to have NES 1943 separated from its arcade counterpart? I'd regroup them, seemed a well realized but quite faithful port last time I checked...

Post by **nZero** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:43 pm

Turrican wrote:
aventus wrote:Mh I think Gradius for NES should be listed seperately because its a completely different (good) version of the game. And 1943 is also listed for NES and Arcade ;)
is there a reason to have NES 1943 separated from its arcade counterpart? I'd regroup them, seemed a well realized but quite faithful port last time I checked...

You mean, aside from the shop where you distribute points to various ship aspects? The differing number of levels? That you can charge up to fire a burst of laser at any time?

No, it's like a lot of Capcom's home ports of that era, changed and rebalanced for the console release. I consider this a good thing for most, although in this case (and UN Squadron) I do prefer the arcade version.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:54 pm

nZero wrote:You mean, aside from the shop where you distribute points to various ship aspects? The differing number of levels? That you can charge up to fire a burst of laser at any time?

No, it's like a lot of Capcom's home ports of that era, changed and rebalanced for the console release. I consider this a good thing for most, although in this case (and UN Squadron) I do prefer the arcade version.

Excellent, I stand corrected

*runs to do his rocknes homeworks*

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:04 pm

Turrican wrote: Or it could have been, you know, smooth and not slowdown plagued. That would have helped too.

Bio Metal has as much slowdown in its entirety as R-Type Delta has in 2 seconds of stage 3.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:27 pm

Rob wrote:
Turrican wrote: Or it could have been, you know, smooth and not slowdown plagued. That would have helped too.
Bio Metal has as much slowdown in its entirety as R-Type Delta has in 2 seconds of stage 3.

What, the mammoth stage? That is "slo-mo on purpose", come on. It's a cinematographic gimmick known as ralenti and it's done to emphasize the action, to give it grandeur. That way the mammoth really feels like a "treading behemoth"...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:07 pm

That's good, now what about the other stages?!

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:32 pm

professor ganson wrote:lol-- I haven't played Bio Metal, so my remark about this being an idiosyncratic vote was a statistical observation, not an evaluative judgment. I'm going to get it one of these days.

The US version is pretty inexpensive, so you shouldn't have much trouble acquiring it (not sure how the Japanese version compares in that regard). However, be aware that you'll have to endure possibly the worst localized soundtrack in shmup history.

As for the game itself, it's very easy to see why Rob likes it, it's got a much more "modern" feel than other shooters of its time, with lots o' bullets and a "proto-shield" mechanic, which can also be used offensively, but also needs to be recharged from time to time (remind you of anything more recent?

). Unfortunately, the "regular" weapons aren't nearly as interesting, and the enemy designs are rather repetitive, not to mention that some stages' graphics can mess with your eyes a bit...still not a bad buy for the price.

xaer0knight · Post by **xaer0knight** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:17 pm

Dale wrote:I,m the only person who voted for some of the ABA games I don,t see why more people don,t enjoy them their free and very high quality.

I,m also disapointed that more early capcom shmups(vulgus gunsmoke Exed Eyes)didn,t get more votes I did see a few but their should have been more as these are my favorit,s.

ABA Games are great SHMUPs for PC but i didnt play them as much as i did last year. SHMUPing on my computer is were i spend the most time playing.

Bydobasher · Post by **Bydobasher** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:17 am

Turrican wrote:Guys, what is the game you are surprised it doesn't figure among the Great 333?

You can name only one!

Heavy Unit (Arcade). I thought it would get a least one vote, as it did last year.

Okay, I know you said only one but I'm also a little bit surprised about Dangar's absence (if only Malc had voted!

), but at least Terra Cresta got a mention.

Lastly, I'm a wee bit surprised that some Parodius fanatic didn't vote for the original MSX game, which is very different than Parodius Da!

[EDIT]

Just had another look at the list, and I am very surprised that no one voted for Cyvern. Also moderately surprised that no one voted for Cybattler.

[/EDIT]

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:28 am

aventus wrote:Mh I think Gradius for NES should be listed seperately because its a completely different (good) version of the game.

I'll fire up my copy this weekend since I haven't played the NES version in ages, but while it's certainly not arcade perfect I don't recall it being "completely different" either...

Bydobasher wrote:Lastly, I'm a wee bit surprised that some Parodius fanatic didn't vote for the original MSX game, which is very different than Parodius Da!

It would have gotten about half a dozen votes had I been a bastard and not PMed everyone who simply voted for "Parodius".

EDIT in response to Bydobasher's edit:

Bydobasher wrote:Just had another look at the list, and I am very surprised that no one voted for Cyvern. Also moderately surprised that no one voted for Cybattler.

Cyvern got a few votes (and they are all being counted), but it got left off the above list somehow. I'll fix that in a bit.

Bydobasher · Post by **Bydobasher** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:33 am

Zach Keene wrote:[Parodius] would have gotten about half a dozen votes had I been a bastard and not PMed everyone who simply voted for "Parodius".

Quite....

Also, is Twinkle Tale a shmup? If it is, I'm surprised about its absence as well.

[EDIT Re: Cyvern]

Ah! Good.

It would have been a bit of a shock if it had been entirely neglected.

[/EDIT]

[FINAL EDIT]

Last one, I promise. Saint Dragon.

[/FINAL EDIT]

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:05 am

Just double checked; not even ST Dragon voted for Saint Dragon.

SteevTee · Post by **SteevTee** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:04 am

I expect next year my votes will be very different as I recenty bought a Saturn and a stack of shooters too:

Radiant Silvergun - that's a mega game right there.
Terra Diver/Souky - another mega game.
Darius Gaiden - not played too much yet, looks good though.
ThunderForce V - also good.

Also finally got my PS modded so I can play...

Gradius Gaiden - super nice.
Einhander - also loving this.

All I need to do now is play them all to death.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:41 am

Bydobasher wrote: Also, is Twinkle Tale a shmup? If it is, I'm surprised about its absence as well.

I don't think it is... Although it's not easy to tell why, but I suppose forced scrolling (see Knightmare) is somewhat of a requirement for these ground shooters. Same applies to Kiki Kaikai, imho.

Vincere · Post by **Vincere** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:00 pm

SteevTee wrote:I expect next year my votes will be very different as I recenty bought a Saturn and a stack of shooters too:

Radiant Silvergun - that's a mega game right there.
Terra Diver/Souky - another mega game.
Darius Gaiden - not played too much yet, looks good though.
ThunderForce V - also good.

Also finally got my PS modded so I can play...

Gradius Gaiden - super nice.
Einhander - also loving this.

All I need to do now is play them all to death.

Great purchase! You won't be disapointed by any means shmup-wise on saturn. The only problem with RS is that there's no time in a single life to play it properly. Apart for some gods.

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:53 pm

Zach Keene wrote:I'll fire up my copy [of NES Gradius] this weekend since I haven't played the NES version in ages, but while it's certainly not arcade perfect I don't recall it being "completely different" either...

Just spent some time with it and while there are certainly things different/missing, it seems close enough to me to group them together for the purposes of this poll.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:51 am

Zach Keene wrote:
Zach Keene wrote:I'll fire up my copy [of NES Gradius] this weekend since I haven't played the NES version in ages, but while it's certainly not arcade perfect I don't recall it being "completely different" either...
Just spent some time with it and while there are certainly things different/missing, it seems close enough to me to group them together for the purposes of this poll.

Well said.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:01 am

Rob wrote:
Turrican wrote: Or it could have been, you know, smooth and not slowdown plagued. That would have helped too.
Bio Metal has as much slowdown in its entirety as R-Type Delta has in 2 seconds of stage 3.

I'm not sure if Turrican is playing the same game because damn it is pretty fast

also Turrican are you playing the horrible US version

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:03 am

Twiddle wrote:I'm not sure if Turrican is playing the same game because damn it is pretty fast

also Turrican are you playing the horrible US version

No, the unadulterated Jpn version - which doesn't make things any better I'm afraid. And, yes, the game is an attempt to be fast. I do concede this. That's why comparison with R-Type is pointless. R-Type goes slow naturally, so an occasional slowdown doesn't hurt the whole picture (imho, of course). On the contrary, for a game that bet all it had on speed, being hampered by slowdowns is, like, the worst thing it could stumble on.

Oh and I tried the EU rom - I must say that the "tunz tunz" music is not as bad as they say!