Toro Sync Issue? Or did it die?

[ajdesmarais]

I may be an idiot overlooking something obvious, but after an hour of dicking around, I've got nothing. My Toro has started acting up after a long period of not being used. I've been using S-Video on my Dreamcast because of Skies of Arcadia not supporting 15khz RGB. I've used the toro to play Dreamcast games in 480i over RGB on my 20M4U for a long time, so I know it should work. Let me run down the specifics:

-I've got the Toro set to RGB
-I've got the blue switch on the boad pressed down for 15khz mode
-I'm running a SCART cable from the Toro to a gscartsw switch. I've tried two different cables, and I've also tried omitting the switch and going right to the monitor with an adapter. No change.
-My monitor is set to accept ext. sync
-The Dreamcast still works over S-video and composite just fine.
-All other systems work fine over RGB, through the switch or directly through an adapter.
-I've tried completely powering everything down multiple times to make sure the DC is booting in the right mode

But the Dreamcast still shows what looks like a total lack of sync. Any ideas as to some other random setting, switch or quirk I could be missing? Behar Bros stuff seems to be really well made. I took apart my Toro and visially inspected it, all of the solder points still seem solid, so I'm at a loss. Anyone ever heard of one of these things crapping out?

Here's a video (please ignore the fact my ext. sync button is not illuminated. It was off for the video because I was just mashing buttons to see if anything worked, but even with it on the dispay is the same)
https://i.imgur.com/VJMNraM.mp4
And an image, for shits.


I know this seems like a simple stupid problem, but I seem to be a magnet for simple stupid problems, especially when I go to use a piece of equipment that I haven't touched in a while. Any help would be appreciated.

[ajdesmarais]

I went to go screw around some more and here's something weird that happens only when I'm connected directly to the monitor without the SCART switch. With external sync off, the image just shows up scrambled, but when switched back on, the video seems to fuck up in an entirely new way and then slowly fade out.

https://i.imgur.com/ErCp6cJ.mp4

This has to be the Toro wigging out, no? I guess my only option is to drop the cash for a replacement. Very annoying.

[nmalinoski]

-I've got the blue switch on the boad pressed down for 15khz mode

Quick note: That switch only controls whether you get RGBHV or RGBS out of the DE-15/VGA port. It does not control whether you get 15kHz or 31kHz from the console; that would be the job of the switch, in the bank of 4 on the side, closest to the console. The SCART output is always RGBS.

If you've gotten those switches confused, try to flip the switch closest to the console; if your display is 15kHz-only, you the Toro may be feeding it 31kHz 480p, which is going to look messed up like that. Also double-check the connections; make sure they're seated properly.

[ajdesmarais]

Ahhh, yes. Thanks for correcting me. I think that's what I meant. It's been a while since I've studied up on the Toro manual, and the old manual for my model has that switch mis-labeled as "brightness control" or some weirdness, so I do tend to mix it up with other stuff, often. I tried the RGB/VGA switch closest to the console in both positions, I'm pretty sure, but I will definitely check it again when I get home. I will also re-check connections, I know the plugs and ports are very finicky if they're not in ALL the way.

Also, wouldn't 480p 31khz just be a doubled-up image on a 15khz-only display? That was what happened when I tried playing SoA, which defaults to that mode no matter what. I would think the sync would still be fine.

There's the unpleasant possibility that the csync signal from my Dreamcast is faulty, maybe due to a bad pin. I wasn't thinking about that last night, but I'm going to inspect when I get home. Sadly I don't have a backup DC to test. In the meantime, I just ended up ordering a Kuro plus as a replacement (since I have no use for the scanline generator, anyway). If it turns out that my Toro kicked, I'm gonna be really frustrated. It's more than a few years old, but I've hardly used the damn thing.

Anyway, thanks for your input!

[nmalinoski]

Also, wouldn't 480p 31khz just be a doubled-up image on a 15khz-only display? That was what happened when I tried playing SoA, which defaults to that mode no matter what. I would think the sync would still be fine.

I have a Sony KV-27FV310 that I fed a 31kHz 480p signal once, and no, it didn't look like a vertically-doubled image; instead, it looked a lot like what you're seeing, where you just see a bunch of moving horizontal lines that are only occasionally identifiable. It's possible some displays double-up, but I haven't personally seen it (and I'd wonder if those TVs have some kind of digital processing).

[ajdesmarais]

Huh. That's interesting. I'm using a PVM and also a switch with a built-in sync scrubber, so maybe that had something to do with it. I definitely recall trying to play Skies of Arcadia and being met with twin 240p images that were crisp and clear. Even on my old 32" JVC consumer set, I remember hooking up a Wii in 480p mode via component, and I got the clear, doubled images. Same for my old '87 Mistubishi set. In my personal experience, every 480i/15khz set I've tried to display a 480p image on just doubles it up in some fashion. I've never seen it get completely scrambled like this.