.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[Xyga]

There's great confusion about what people call 'lag' with games in emulators, the games are supposed to come with a certain amount of input delay, IIRC for Cave CV1000 it's about the equivalent of 2 frames (or was it 3? dunno, few ppl play them in MAME anyway, there are more issues besides lag like the unemulated slowdowns)
But a certain number of people consider even that natural lag should be removed, and for that there's ShmupArch, which is a pre-configured RetroArch.
Normally it uses run-ahead as high as possible without vsync (off), which effectively reduces the delay to lower-than-real-hardware levels at the cost of some tearing.

Now I don't know at the point of the MAME's cv1k driver development if the default lag equals the pcb's 2 frames too, but let's say it does for the sake of the following explanation; in any case the main reason why there's more lag in vanilla MAME is that it uses 3 queue frames on top of the game's (2+3=5) when vsync or triplebuffer is ON.

What GroovyMAME allows is to keep vsync ON (no tearing, smooth scrollings) but reduce the frame queue to either 1 frame, or fractions of a frame (by steps of 10%)
1 frame on top of the game's makes 2+1=3, and that doesn't cost any additional CPU or GPU power.
Fractions of a frame though depend largely on CPU power, 50% (frame_delay 5) for cv1k games is manageable probably by even a simple 3Gz dual core paired with a low-end GPU,
but 70%, 80% will probably need more juice, and 90% is only for the most powerful PC configurations.

In any case GroovyMAME with its frame_delay feature preserves the original game's natural delay, which is logical since it tries not to betray the principle of accuracy. The only thing it eliminates is the unwanted additional lag that's usually produced by vertical synchronization.

As for RetroArch (and threfore ShmupArch) neither MAME nor GroovyMAME work fine there, but iirc RA 'borrowed' some of Groovy's features like frame_delay (a bit pointlessly I guess since it doesn't work without hard-coded Groovy specifics afaik) so I wouldn't even try.
If MAME worked right with run-ahead in RA, you could technically achieve about the same as Groovy, a lag equivalent to the pcb with no tearing, and since cv1k is exactly 60Hz there would be no issues with the scrollings smoothness also.

I hope not as GroovyMAME has more lag then Shmuparch

Also I don't know where you get your info but that's nonsense, again ShmupArch is set to bring the input delay lower than the pcb, and Groovy is meant for bringing it as close to the pcb as your PC/setup can afford.
ShmupArch is RetroArch, and what you do with the featured lag reduction is your choice (or the person who wrote the presets in this case), it can be set to beat the pcb's lag, or to match it approximately, and depending on what you do the CPU/GPU requirements can be high too.
So it's not X has more lag than Y, it's the game has lag originally, and depending on which emu config and PC/hardware you have, you can either have a little more, match it, or defeat it.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[CloudyMusic]

After trying ShmupArch I've noticed that the input lag on the console and steam ports of the Cave shmups is far to high, I guess they use standard MAME to emulate them?

They do not.

That said, I'm pretty sensitive to lag and don't really have any major issues with any of the 360 ports, but I can see how someone could find it hard to go back after playing with run-ahead for an extended period of time.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day..

[Shepardus]

If the ports were running on MAME emulation they'd have much bigger problems than input lag or the slowdown not being correct, not least of which is that they wouldn't be able to get even close to full speed on my computer or an Xbox 360.

[Xyga]

There's so much wrong in what you wrote MrShotia, ugh, but I don't have time for a reply now.


Also @Mark: you're clueless, stop spreading false information about things you don't even fully understand, it's your fault if people are mislead.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[Shepardus]

Companies often choose the emulation route when the games are old enough that 1) a quality emulator exists, and 2) the source code is either lost or old enough that porting it would amount to a full rewrite anyway. Neither of these are the case for CAVE's newer games. Besides, if they did use emulation they'd have to find a way to hack in all the HD graphics and arrange modes that don't exist in PCB form. The Xbox 360 port of Guwange, however, does run on emulation. I've heard that the ROM for the "Blue" version was extracted from the port.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[el_rika]

Hijacking the thread just a little. Could a very knowledgeable person, that extensively played Cave cv1000 games in Mame, make a post regarding the best settings for each game in terms of playability/slowdown/lag?

I'm planing on getting a last generation smartphone, which will hopefully be enough to play these game in full speed in Retroarch Mame cores (mame 2014 already ran full speed in previous generation CPUs), and it'd be great to have the best blitter settings and/or other settings explained.

[komatik]

iirc RA 'borrowed' some of Groovy's features like frame_delay (a bit pointlessly I guess since it doesn't work without hard-coded Groovy specifics afaik)

You're either smoking something or talking about a different feature. All the frame delay option does is literally delay the generation of the current pending frame until the last possible moment before you need to start computing it, thereby hopefully being able to catch any late input events so they can be processed in this frame cycle instead of having to wait for the next one. It works perfectly fine in RetroArch and (unlike runahead) doesn't need special support from the core so you can enable it anywhere on anything, provided your cpu+gpu is fast enough to not need the entire 1/60th window to generate a frame.

I'm planing on getting a last generation smartphone, which will hopefully be enough to play these game in full speed in Retroarch Mame cores (mame 2014 already ran full speed in previous generation CPUs)

Uhh..... maybe times have changed, but I've never known phones to be able to handle MAME stuff with any real reliability. Even if you found a phone that works, I would NOT automatically assume that some other phone with a supposedly faster cpu will also work, as a lot of the performance is dependent on stuff like video memory bandwidth and L2 caches and shit that are too geeky to be advertised in the specs and tend to change from chip to chip.

As for specific settings, the best balance between playability and lag is highly dependent on your hardware so nobody can really answer that for you. It basically boils down to "turn them up as high as your device can handle" anyway.

[el_rika]

Uhh..... maybe times have changed, but I've never known phones to be able to handle MAME stuff with any real reliability.

As a matter of fact, a phone from ~ 2013 can easily play any Cave 2nd and 3rd gen game completely full speed, just as good as any PC would. Now Cave 3rd gen is a different beast as we all know, so a much much powerful CPU is needed. Thankfully, smartphone hardware advanced considerably in the past couple of years and we are there (Snapdragon 855 is the one to look at).

I remember reading years back that a combination of CPU overclocking/underclocking and blitter delay settings, would make most Cv1000 games closer to intended (original pcb) speeds in Mame (or is it only the blitter delay that affects the speed?!).

Another note; In Espgaluda 2, are the Awakening and Absolute Awakening modes slowed down regardless of any settings? Absolute Awakening in particular seems to be at leat 4 times less than normal speed.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[Bassa-Bassa]

As for specific settings, the best balance between playability and lag is highly dependent on your hardware so nobody can really answer that for you. It basically boils down to "turn them up as high as your device can handle" anyway.

Hi, check this:

viewtopic.php?p=1276872#p1276872

It seems that Groovymame + blitter delay (and CPU clock) tweaks can get us something very close to the original PCB behaviour, specially with good hardware (how come so many people are using windows 10 or android for this stuff, anyway!?). The former for the frame delay feature and the latter for slowdown accuracy.

It's a shame that thread wasn't sticky-ed and understood as a project given that more comparisons are needed for most games and much better emulation for CV1000 games is indeed possible just with the help of the community/users (not depending on mame developers, for once).

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[Bassa-Bassa]

No need to get confrontational. I think he tried to said that with Groovymame's frame delay feature at its best setting you can get rid of that extra frame, so, in optimal conditions, Groovymame indeed doesn't add any input lag. The problem is that CV1000 is very demanding and you'll likely leave it at 40~60%. But again, it's just 1 extra frame, and not always. Take another hardware under Mame used by Cave and you'll be able to set frame delay so high that there'll be no extra lag.

You just can't count the hardware's native lag because that's how it is supposed to be, like it or not.

[MrShotia]

This thread was hijacked by a douche bag who then wrote bs on another account pretending he was two different people. This persons criticisms are unfounded and incoherent and more a rip at the writer of the presets to an emulator then me, I am not that person.

In regards to this persons last post no I am not super human, I filmed and compared the frame lag.

This troll was not going to stop, they clearly love typing trolling on forums more then playing shmups.

I interact here for constructive reasons, not to be drawn into arguments with toxic individuals. I'd rather play shmups.

So it is best for me to destroy this thread rather then let a cretin and his many accounts have his way, I wish you all a good day.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Being concerned about properly playing a highly demanding game (as in, having accurate input lag emulation) but using suboptimal hardware/software for that? Not much sense, if I have to be honest.

Being able to notice a difference of half a frame of input lag is superhuman in my book, also.

[qmish]

what the hell happened to this thread?

also who is "mrshotia"?

why he has signature from other user? (never outclassed) ..or was it on muffwiggler forum? idk