Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

[unmaker]

if i was going to do one of bortis' designs, is there any opinions about the N64 Advance vs N64RGBV2? seems like Advance also does higher res if i want it to, probably higher quality but more $$? or is there something to consider I'm missing?

I've used and tested the N64A quite a bit and here are my impressions:

pros:
-the most feature rich N64RGB board out at the moment
-has options to output in RGBs, RGsB, RGBHV, and YPbPr
-for 240p games you can line2x/line3x for 480p and "pseudo" 720p output
-for 480i games you can de-interlace for 480p output
-240p/480i games such as Perfect Dark 64 work perfectly if you have both line2x and de-interlaced enable for constant 480p output
-the only way to output 480p/720p directly to your multisync monitor without the need for external devices (works perfectly on my PVM-20L5)
-scanline options
-has the ability to adjust gamma which is great for dark games such as Doom 64
-LPF options if you also install borti's Filter AddOn board (this cannot be used with RGBHV output)
-you can save your settings so you don't have to make adjustments each time you power on your console
-if outputting in RGBHV you can buy a cheap VGA->HDMI converter and play in 480p/720p on your HDTV. The picture looks quite good but there are some cons mentioned below.

cons:
-If using HD Retrovision cables you will not be able to use the line-doubling features unless you: 1. modify the cables to use CSYNC instead of composite sync (use 75ohm CSYNC if you do), 2. isolate the composite video pin and replace it with 75ohm CSYNC from the N64A board. No more composite video with option 2 but I don't see this as such a big deal because who cares about composite video anyway? Making your own component cable is not difficult and IMO the preferred option here.
-the features might be overkill for some. If you're setup is an OSSC->HDTV you're not going to need the N64A's line-doubling and scanline options
-has compatibility issues if installed alongside an UltraHDMI (I'm working on a solution for this with borti's help)
-the most expensive parts of any N64RGB board out at the moment
-the "psuedo" 720p isn't a true 720p signal, obviously. It is unrecognized by my both of my HDTV's via component but works on my PVM-20L5 via compoent, RGBs, and RGsB. It also works great on my LCD monitor. The only way I can get the "pseudo" 720p output to work on either of my HDTV's is by outputting in RGBHV and using a VGA->HDMI converter. Even then, it doesn't fill in the whole screen but I am still pleased with the picture quality.


Here are some pictures:

"pseudo" 720p output via RGBHV on my HDTV using a VGA->HDMI converter (does not fill in the whole screen):

Spoiler

480p output via RGBHV on my HDTV using a VGA->HDMI converter (part of the left side is cut off, even with the OSSC):

Spoiler

another 480p via RGBHV on my HDTV using VGA->HDMI to where it's easier to see the picture cut off:

Spoiler

480p output on my HDTV using a custom made component cable (fills in the whole screen):

Spoiler

720p output via RGBHV on my LCD monitor which shows how my monitor detects the signal:

Spoiler

here are some videos:

Doom 64 where I go through some of the N64A features and demonstrate how useful the gamma adjustment is in this game: https://streamable.com/0osca

here I'm testing the N64A and UltraHDMI installed within the same console but you can see the 480p and 720p output on my PVM-20L5: https://streamable.com/pnvnz

I might have forgotten a few things but that should give you an idea

[unmaker]

I will be assembling some N64 Advanced kits and N64RGBv2 boards. My N64A PCB's have actually arrived today:



I will only do a small batch of each to test the waters. Depending on how these sell I may do more. I've been wanting to assemble these boards since they came out but I never did because:

1. even though these boards are open source something just doesn't feel right to me about making a profit off of someone else's designs
2. I always assumed someone else such as videogamingperfection would sell pre-assembled boards.
3. I don't have much clout in the retro community so I was worried about assembling a batch of boards and hardly any would sell
4. I don't know how well these would sell due to pricing and demand. The N64A has plenty of components and the most expensive components of any N64RGB board out there. Why would someone spend $120 on a N64A board when they can spend just a bit more for an UltraHDMI kit?

Seeing that no one else has assembled these boards I've decided to go through with it. With regards to the $120 price tag, I've talked to someone who purchased 2 pre-assembled N64 Advanced boards for $120 each from a popular retro modder and one of the boards didn't even work. I don't think the boards even had the firmware flashed. Well my N64A boards will be guaranteed to work but will also include borti's resistor adapter, Filter AddOn board, M3 mounting screws/washers for proper mounting onto the heatsink, and ground fingers soldered onto the N64A PCB.

[vol.2]

I might have forgotten a few things but that should give you an idea

thanks for all of the information! i will definitely watch your videos.

i think this is the way to go for me because i am mostly interested in using it for my PVM and would see a benefit from the component option on some consumer crts.

i'm not sold on HDMI mods yet because i feel like i can just use emulation for that and won't notice the difference. maybe I'm wrong about that, but I love my mame stuff and it looks great to me.

[vol.2]

I will be assembling some N64 Advanced kits and N64RGBv2 boards.

sweet.

[fernan1234]

I use an N64A board, wonderfully assembled and installed by unmaker, and couldn't be happier with it. I think these are great for people like me who want the best possible N64 experience but play exclusively or primarily on a CRT, and thus have no need for an UltraHDMI. For some people it may also make more sense to use one of these in combination with an OSSC, which covers any other system as well for use with a flat panel.

This board has the Filter AddOn, though I can't figure out what it does reading the github info. Mine's Filter Cut-Off value is set to (bypassed) by default in the Miscellaneous settings, and can cycle through the values Auto, 9.5MHz, and 18.0MHz. I can tell there's a subtle change in the picture but can't figure out what this does exactly.

I got a USB blaster to install the newer firmware with pseudo 720p, but I've decided to hold off on it because unmaker told me that there is a minor bug with picture mod switching. I'd also like to wait for the 3x output to be recognized as 4:3 with borders on a widescreen display (which is what I use) because I don't think I'd really use it with the stretched picture. Not sure if this will be possible though.

[Syntax]

Thank you! That's the answer I was looking for. According to leonk's post it seems the issue is related to excessive ground loops. I now wonder if the 3.3v LDO fix can be skipped and by simply isolating the multiAV ground pin to the N64RGB board could be sufficient enough.

Leonk does that and says it works fine, I have never tested because the grounds are a bitch to remove from the AV port without desoldering the whole thing or hacking it up badly.

In short.

N64 has noisy 3.3v rail - Audio and controller inputs can bee seen on scope.

Tims N64rgb and Bortis old boards use the 3.3v line which transfers the noise to video.

Adding your own 3.3v LDO to these boards eliminates the issue.
Also modding Tims board to power the THS7374 with 5v may be better than the current 3.3v design. Requires trace cuts.

Using borti's resistor adapter flat cable may stop jumping pixels.

[unmaker]

I use an N64A board, wonderfully assembled and installed by unmaker, and couldn't be happier with it. I think these are great for people like me who want the best possible N64 experience but play exclusively or primarily on a CRT, and thus have no need for an UltraHDMI. For some people it may also make more sense to use one of these in combination with an OSSC, which covers any other system as well for use with a flat panel.

This board has the Filter AddOn, though I can't figure out what it does reading the github info. Mine's Filter Cut-Off value is set to (bypassed) by default in the Miscellaneous settings, and can cycle through the values Auto, 9.5MHz, and 18.0MHz. I can tell there's a subtle change in the picture but can't figure out what this does exactly.

I got a USB blaster to install the newer firmware with pseudo 720p, but I've decided to hold off on it because unmaker told me that there is a minor bug with picture mod switching. I'd also like to wait for the 3x output to be recognized as 4:3 with borders on a widescreen display (which is what I use) because I don't think I'd really use it with the stretched picture. Not sure if this will be possible though.

Thank you for the kind words fernan! When sending an analog signal to a digital device there should be at least one filter in the chain. Without a low-pass filter there will be video noise which looks like jailbars. Some pics to demonstrate:

With LPF:

Spoiler

Without LPF:

Spoiler

Obviously not a N64 but the same applies. The Filter AddOn is most useful for people who are outputting to their capture cards or HDTV's which don't have filtering options. My Datapath-E1S capture card does not have any filtering options but both of my HDTV's do. As for the 720p black screen issue, it's been much improved with the latest firmware.

Leonk does that and says it works fine, I have never tested because the grounds are a bitch to remove from the AV port without desoldering the whole thing or hacking it up badly.

In short.

N64 has noisy 3.3v rail - Audio and controller inputs can bee seen on scope.

Tims N64rgb and Bortis old boards use the 3.3v line which transfers the noise to video.

Adding your own 3.3v LDO to these boards eliminates the issue.
Also modding Tims board to power the THS7374 with 5v may be better than the current 3.3v design. Requires trace cuts.

Using borti's resistor adapter flat cable may stop jumping pixels.

That sums it up perfectly. This should be stickied somewhere.

[Syntax]

Leonk does that and says it works fine, I have never tested because the grounds are a bitch to remove from the AV port without desoldering the whole thing or hacking it up badly.

In short.

N64 has noisy 3.3v rail - Audio and controller inputs can bee seen on scope.

Tims N64rgb and Bortis old boards use the 3.3v line which transfers the noise to video.

Adding your own 3.3v LDO to these boards eliminates the issue.
Also modding Tims board to power the THS7374 with 5v may be better than the current 3.3v design. Requires trace cuts.

Using borti's resistor adapter flat cable may stop jumping pixels.

That sums it up perfectly. This should be stickied somewhere.

Pretty much, anything else you see will be software side and can usually be removed by applying IPS/APS patches in Everdrive menu.

[vol.2]

I use an N64A board, wonderfully assembled and installed by unmaker, and couldn't be happier with it. I think these are great for people like me who want the best possible N64 experience but play exclusively or primarily on a CRT, and thus have no need for an UltraHDMI. For some people it may also make more sense to use one of these in combination with an OSSC, which covers any other system as well for use with a flat panel.

This board has the Filter AddOn, though I can't figure out what it does reading the github info. Mine's Filter Cut-Off value is set to (bypassed) by default in the Miscellaneous settings, and can cycle through the values Auto, 9.5MHz, and 18.0MHz. I can tell there's a subtle change in the picture but can't figure out what this does exactly.

I got a USB blaster to install the newer firmware with pseudo 720p, but I've decided to hold off on it because unmaker told me that there is a minor bug with picture mod switching. I'd also like to wait for the 3x output to be recognized as 4:3 with borders on a widescreen display (which is what I use) because I don't think I'd really use it with the stretched picture. Not sure if this will be possible though.

Thank you for the kind words fernan! When sending an analog signal to a digital device there should be at least one filter in the chain. Without a low-pass filter there will be video noise which looks like jailbars. Some pics to demonstrate:

With LPF:

Spoiler

Without LPF:

Spoiler

Obviously not a N64 but the same applies. The Filter AddOn is most useful for people who are outputting to their capture cards or HDTV's which don't have filtering options. My Datapath-E1S capture card does not have any filtering options but both of my HDTV's do. As for the 720p black screen issue, it's been much improved with the latest firmware.

Leonk does that and says it works fine, I have never tested because the grounds are a bitch to remove from the AV port without desoldering the whole thing or hacking it up badly.

In short.

N64 has noisy 3.3v rail - Audio and controller inputs can bee seen on scope.

Tims N64rgb and Bortis old boards use the 3.3v line which transfers the noise to video.

Adding your own 3.3v LDO to these boards eliminates the issue.
Also modding Tims board to power the THS7374 with 5v may be better than the current 3.3v design. Requires trace cuts.

Using borti's resistor adapter flat cable may stop jumping pixels.

That sums it up perfectly. This should be stickied somewhere.

this is what an extron RGB interface is supposed to take care of, correct?

[unmaker]

this is what an extron RGB interface is supposed to take care of, correct?

With regards to the commonly used extron devices used for handling analog signals, I don't know that any of them have LPF options. I don't have any first-hand experience with any extron devices so I could be wrong.

[nmalinoski]

Does anyone have any interest in one of borti's 3.3V regulator boards in kit form or assembled? I bought parts for 3 boards and will not have any use for them.

[thebigcheese]

Can someone please catch me up on the state of N64 and RGB mods? There are entirely too many pages here for me to scroll through. I know this is technically a thread about deblur, but I'm not that interested in that functionality. What I am curious about is the noise. I have an original N64RGB from Tim and no matter how I wire it or what cable I use to connect it, there's slight static noise in the video. Audio is not affected. It's not the worst ever and I've lived with it so far, but if there's a better solution now, it might be worthwhile to swap out the mods. My system is the model that can use, say, Voultar's mod, so it doesn't need to be super fancy as long as it offers some improvement. Thanks!

[nmalinoski]

Can someone please catch me up on the state of N64 and RGB mods? There are entirely too many pages here for me to scroll through. I know this is technically a thread about deblur, but I'm not that interested in that functionality. What I am curious about is the noise. I have an original N64RGB from Tim and no matter how I wire it or what cable I use to connect it, there's slight static noise in the video. Audio is not affected. It's not the worst ever and I've lived with it so far, but if there's a better solution now, it might be worthwhile to swap out the mods. My system is the model that can use, say, Voultar's mod, so it doesn't need to be super fancy as long as it offers some improvement. Thanks!

To the best of my knowldege:

• Simple RGB bypass mod
  • Compatibility: Limited to NS1-serialed N64s
  • Deblur: No
  • Video output: RGB, native resolutions/framerates only
  • OSD: No
  • Availability: Readily-available, preassembled (Voultar, others)
  • Affected by the 3.3V power isolation issue: No (to my knowledge)
• Tim Worthington N64RGB
  • Compatibility: All N64 models
  • Deblur: Yes
  • Video output: RGB, native resolutions/framerates only
  • OSD: No
  • Availability: Readily-available, preassembled (etim.net.au)
  • Affected by the 3.3V power isolation issue: Yes, fixable with the 3.3V regulator addon
• borti N64RGB v1
  • Compatibility: All N64 models
  • Deblur: Yes
  • Video output: RGB, native resolutions/framerates only
  • OSD: No
  • Availability: None/DIY (GitHub)
  • Affected by the 3.3V power isolation issue: Yes, fixable with the 3.3V regulator addon
• borti N64RGB v2
  • Compatibility: All N64 models
  • Deblur: Yes
  • Video output: RGB, native resolutions/framerates only
  • OSD: No
  • Availability: None/DIY (GitHub)
  • Affected by the 3.3V power isolation issue: No
• borti N64RGB Advanced
  • Compatibility: All N64 models
  • Deblur: Yes
  • Video output: RGB, native resolutions plus line-doubling to 480p/576p, native framerates only
  • OSD: Yes
  • Availability: None/DIY (GitHub), although unmaker has announced a run of these boards
  • Affected by the 3.3V power isolation issue: No
• UltraHDMI (I think this counts)
  • Compatibility: All N64 models
  • Deblur: Yes
  • Video output: RGB, native resolutions/framerates plus configurable scaling to 480p/576p/720p/1080p at 50/60Hz
  • OSD: Yes
  • Availability: Recurring (Shmups group-buy thread)
  • Affected by the 3.3V power isolation issue: No

[vol.2]

Can someone please catch me up on the state of N64 and RGB mods? There are entirely too many pages here for me to scroll through. I know this is technically a thread about deblur, but I'm not that interested in that functionality. What I am curious about is the noise. I have an original N64RGB from Tim and no matter how I wire it or what cable I use to connect it, there's slight static noise in the video. Audio is not affected. It's not the worst ever and I've lived with it so far, but if there's a better solution now, it might be worthwhile to swap out the mods. My system is the model that can use, say, Voultar's mod, so it doesn't need to be super fancy as long as it offers some improvement. Thanks!

tldr:

there was discovered an issue where the 3.3v power rail introduces noise from the system into the video. it's fixed by powering the video board with a separate power source, or the existing 5v rail from the multiport.

i believe you just have to mod your mod, not replace it. can send it out to a guy, or probably you'll end up reading back to ascertain the details. maybe someone else can point you to specific option for the power supply replacement

[bobrocks95]

Is anyone selling the 3.3V regulator boards pre-assembled?

[nmalinoski]

Is anyone selling the 3.3V regulator boards pre-assembled?

Not to my knowledge.

I have the parts for three boards and can do assembly. On the flip side, I don't really have a way of testing them beyond verifying the components with my multimeter.

[Arthrimus]

Is anyone selling the 3.3V regulator boards pre-assembled?

Soon. I have all of the parts I just haven't had the time to assemble a batch.

Also I have a modified version of the V1 design with the 3.3v regulator built in. Still haven't had a chance to assemble and test it, but I can't foresee there being any issues.

[thebigcheese]

To the best of my knowldege:

Thanks! Honestly, as long as Voultar's board isn't affected, I'd probably just go that route rather than modding my existing mod. I've already messed up the N64RGB a bit by pulling up one of the ground pads (not the worst, but still), so at this point I'd rather just replace it. Is anyone able to confirm that it isn't affected? Otherwise I'd have to look into either the 3.3v thing or one of Borti's newer kits.

[unmaker]

Can someone please catch me up on the state of N64 and RGB mods? There are entirely too many pages here for me to scroll through. I know this is technically a thread about deblur, but I'm not that interested in that functionality. What I am curious about is the noise. I have an original N64RGB from Tim and no matter how I wire it or what cable I use to connect it, there's slight static noise in the video. Audio is not affected. It's not the worst ever and I've lived with it so far, but if there's a better solution now, it might be worthwhile to swap out the mods. My system is the model that can use, say, Voultar's mod, so it doesn't need to be super fancy as long as it offers some improvement. Thanks!

This makes me think there should be a separate thread dedicated to all the N64 RGB options currently available. This thread is more specific to N64 blurring and most people are going to find it inconvenient to sift through 37 pages, and any additional pages that may come, to learn about their options.

Is anyone selling the 3.3V regulator boards pre-assembled?

Soon. I have all of the parts I just haven't had the time to assemble a batch.

Also I have a modified version of the V1 design with the 3.3v regulator built in. Still haven't had a chance to assemble and test it, but I can't foresee there being any issues.

Spoiler

This is neat. I think this could be the better choice over the N64RGBv2 simply because the total cost of components is probably less and the outputs are virtually the same. The DAC IC the N64RGBv2 uses is like ~$10.

One of my reasons for comparing the two in my post is I recall borti saying the v2 would have a superior output because a DAC IC > R2R ladder. When I compare pics of the two there is a small difference. The v1 looks a bit brighter or more saturated to my eyes and I don't know if that's a good or bad thing. Maybe there is someone pedantic enough to hook these up to a scope and can determine which one is "better" in terms of measurements. I'm fairly certain there are objective standards to this stuff. There are enough pedants in the community, such as myself, who would prefer one over the other even if it's a 0.001% improvement . This is also true for some audiophiles who are always looking for the smallest improvement in measurements that even goes outside the scope of human hearing. This can be seen at amirm's measurements at audiosciencereviews. Putting audiophile subjectivity aside, he has shown that audio DAC's with IC's are generally better at dealing with distortion, saturation, etc. than R2R DAC's.

[22asd]

Im experiencing some issues with viletim's n64rgb. I read to update the .pof file. I updated with both viletims and borti's pof file, but the same issue persists. Any one familiar with this issue?

https://imgur.com/W7IydpK
https://imgur.com/JQ477VT
https://imgur.com/fS9PKAt
https://imgur.com/fJ0TDRO
https://imgur.com/gRXXlrD

I can get more/different images too

[Arthrimus]

Im experiencing some issues with viletim's n64rgb. I read to update the .pof file. I updated with both viletims and borti's pof file, but the same issue persists. Any one familiar with this issue?

https://imgur.com/W7IydpK
https://imgur.com/JQ477VT
https://imgur.com/fS9PKAt
https://imgur.com/fJ0TDRO
https://imgur.com/gRXXlrD

I can get more/different images too

What are you using for sync?

[22asd]

What are you using for sync?

Composite I am assuming. I am using a cheap, generic cable to test but I have used them to test many other consoles (SNES RGB & N64 simple RGB from Borti) with no problem.

[Link83]

I'm hopefully installing an N64Advanced soon, but am not sure if I really need the filter add-on board or not.

Does anyone know if the systems with "stock" RGB output (e.g. SNES, Mega Drive, Saturn, PS1) have a LPF on the video encoder output? Basically I just want to make the N64's RGB output match the stock RGB systems I already own, so that the N64 is not the odd one out.

[TobiasRieper]

Hiya I'm not sure about those consoles you listed but I can tell you I got a better picture with the filter board add on. Without it I had very faint jailbars in line 22 and line 3 mode.
I'm not sure if that would be the same on all consoles?
If you want I have a spare filter add on pcb I can mail you?
Would just cost you postage (prob's be nout much)

[Ramok2k]

I got the video noise and managed to get the regulator board. But I just need some quick clarification.

I get soldering on the switch (bottom side) but for the 3.3v wire do I solder that into the VCC part of the RGB board? Do I leave the GND and the rest as is? I got my N64 ready and I need some guidance on fixing the noise. I'm kind of a noob when it comes to soldering as I got my N64 ready made. If someone can help clarify how to install it would be great.

[ClarkDV]

Question for all the RGB board pros out there. I’m really noob at this kind of stuff so bear with me please. I soldered a wire between “A” and “G” on my Tim worthington RGB board. It’s from 2017 so it should have the de-blur firmware. I feel like the system looks clearer, but I can’t seem to switch back and forth between deblur on or off with the button presses. Did I do something wrong or is it a firmware thing or something. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Syntax]

You need bortis IGR firmware for Tim's board.

[ClarkDV]

You need bortis IGR firmware for Tim's board.

I thought it came pre-installed if purchased after 2016. I got it mid-2017.

[Link83]

You need bortis IGR firmware for Tim's board.

I thought it came pre-installed if purchased after 2016. I got it mid-2017.

I dont think it comes pre-installed on any of Tim's boards?

[ClarkDV]

You need bortis IGR firmware for Tim's board.

I thought it came pre-installed if purchased after 2016. I got it mid-2017.

I dont think it comes pre-installed on any of Tim's boards?

His website says “N64RGB board. Hardware version 1.2, software version 1.2 (includes de-blur feature). ”. If it says “includes deblur feature” doesn’t that mean you just gotta solder it on? If not, how do I flash the Bortis IGR firmware?