Really bad ghosting effect on bright colors Super Famicom

[Balleratt]

Hi!

I have a region free 50/60hz switchless Super Famicom that is really showing som heavy ghosting on bright colors. Playing Super Mario World really shows how bad it is. Playing Super Metroid is not as bad since it's a rather dark game in comparison. I use the RGB cables fro the system I bought from retrogamingcables.com Does this system need som serious cap replacing ?

I tried taking a few photos from Super Mario World , although bad they show the effect in play:

[komatik]

That's not really "ghosting" that's some kind of smear. I mean I guess technically it could be a type of ghost since it looks like the scanline beam is holding on to the signal for too long but usually when people say "ghosting" they mean a frame-by-frame afterimage.

Anyway, you need to eliminate some basic variables first here. What TV is this? How are all the brightness/input settings on the TV configured? Are you sure this is the SNES and not the TV (have you tried connecting the SNES to different TVs and different systems to the TV)? etc.

I've seen stuff before that looks like this just from a normal composite signal on a normal TV but the TV's brightness/contrast was set too high.

[Balleratt]

I have tried this on my B&O MX7000 and a few Sony Trinitrons, directly into the SCART all TV TV's and trough SCART hubs. The SNES shows this on all three of them, while the other consoles does not. I also tried lowering the brightness contrast settings to try and reduce the effect, but it seems like it's always there. I have never seen this on any of mye other consoles before.

[Fudoh]

Do you have a set of composite cables around you can try? Are you positive that the region configuration of your RGB cables matches your system? There's a difference between PAL and NTSC RGB cables in terms of capacitors built into the cables.

[rama]

I second the Composite Video (or S-Video) test suggestion.

If it shows up with an alternative connection as well, the issue is with the console, or how your TV handles its signals.
If the issue is gone, then your cable either has wrong or bad components.

This is a regular SFC, right? Not a 1Chip console.

[komatik]

directly into the SCART all TV TV's and trough SCART hubs.

Right, so when you said "I use the RGB cables fro the system I bought from retrogamingcables.com" you mean just a SCART cable?

I second the Composite Video (or S-Video) test suggestion.

I'll third that, but I feel like it probably won't show up there as that goes through a separate encoder situation which might normalize the signal so it likely won't tell us if it's the console or the cables. Definitely should try a few other known-proper SNES SCART cables though.

This is a regular SFC, right? Not a 1Chip console.

The 1chips were an officially Nintendo-produced SNES hardware revision so they count as 'regular' for most people. You can't tell them apart from an earlier model SNES without opening them up and physically inspecting the board (although you can guess based on the serial number).

... although, now that you mention it (and a brief google search), a lot of the 1chip SNESs did seem to have an issue where parts of the image had a dim repeating echo affect stretching off to the right which a lot of people refer to as "ghosting". The example pictures of that aren't really the same as what's being seen here but if the console in question is a 1chip revision it might be related.

[Balleratt]

I use this cable from retrogamingcables :

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/pac ... gold-scart

I dont havethe original composite cables for the system, I might be able to dig out some for the Gamecube or N64, but those are PAL systems. Would that matter?

I guess I would have to open up the console to check if it's a 1chip revision? I'm awaiting any respons from the seller if I should ship it back (over to France) for inspection/fix. He thought it might be the GPU (dot hey call it that on the SNES?) thats action up. I did manage to find a link to a guy with similar problems as myself..but I i really cant manage to find it now :/

[rama]

Try it with your PAL cable.
It does make a significant difference: Your Composite Video image will be low contrast and over saturated, because PAL cables have added components that distort the image of an NTSC console. But still, you should not get the same distortions as with the RGB cable if the console is fine.

1Chip consoles are significantly sharper than regular SFC's but if you have no comparison, the serial number is a good indicator.
If the serial start with S25, then it might be a 1Chip. Anything below that and it's usually a regular console.
This all only matters to determine if your console uses an RGB encoder / buffer, or the old transistor drivers.
So instead of looking just for 1Chip features, look for a serial starting with maybe S23 or S24. Those include the systems that use the RGB encoder.

[Balleratt]

I will try some different cables tomorrow. Thanks for your help!

The serial number starts with S22, so I guess it's not a 1Chip model based on that.

[Classicgamer]

Some of those retro gaming cables are wired for composite sync instead of sync on composite video (like the official RGB scart cables). It could be a minor sync compatibility issue with your scart tv.

Personally, I would just use a regular snes rgb scart scable with a super famicom / snes if it is being used with a scart TV (i.e. not a pro video monitor that needs clean rgbs). Those sync strike chips are a real pain in the ass. They have been the most common cause of rgb cable related issues for me so I only use them when they are absolutely necessary for a sync fussy rgb monitor.

My experience with Retro Gaming Cables is that they think their product is a lot better than the reality. i.e. they charge a lot more for benefits that don't really exist in a noticeable way. You get the same image quality from a $7 ebay rgb scart cable as you do from their $50 cables.

In general though, I agree with what others here said. You first need to confirm if the issue is from the TV, the console, or the cable.

[Makinx]

Try it with your PAL cable.
It does make a significant difference: Your Composite Video image will be low contrast and over saturated, because PAL cables have added components that distort the image of an NTSC console. But still, you should not get the same distortions as with the RGB cable if the console is fine.

The SNES composite cables are the same across all regions. There are no added components in it for the PAL region.

My experience with Retro Gaming Cables is that they think their product is a lot better than the reality. i.e. they charge a lot more for benefits that don't really exist in a noticeable way. You get the same image quality from a $7 ebay rgb scart cable as you do from their $50 cables.

If you buy a cheapo rgb cable off ebay, you are almost guaranteed to get a cable with poor isolation (audio hum on bright screens) or wired incorrectly for your system.

[fernan1234]

If you buy a cheapo rgb cable off ebay, you are almost guaranteed to get a cable with poor isolation (audio hum on bright screens) or wired incorrectly for your system.

Classicgamer has been insisting on another thread also that cheap ebay cables are just as good as anything else, which is pretty dangerous advice because he may make more people end up in this kind of situation with audio noise. Maybe he only plays his game with the sound muted

[maxtherabbit]

The SNES composite cables are the same across all regions. There are no added components in it for the PAL region.

I don't believe that is correct, I think PAL composite cables for Nintendo products have a 75 ohm resistor to ground on CVBS, NTSC ones definitely do not.

[rama]

I will try some different cables tomorrow. Thanks for your help!

The serial number starts with S22, so I guess it's not a 1Chip model based on that.

Definitely not a 1Chip, but it's very close to an "SNS-CPU-RGB-01" board that has the RGB encoder.

Well, I'm eager to know the Composite results :p

[Makinx]

The SNES composite cables are the same across all regions. There are no added components in it for the PAL region.

I don't believe that is correct, I think PAL composite cables for Nintendo products have a 75 ohm resistor to ground on CVBS, NTSC ones definitely do not.

Isn't that just to get proper sync termination for PAL tv's when wiring RGB scart cables? I don't think they add that resistor in the bog standard composite cables. I could very well be wrong. Anyway, I have used composite cables that came with my pal Snes for an SFC with no ill effect that I could see.

[paulb_nl]

The SNES composite cables are the same across all regions. There are no added components in it for the PAL region.

Definitely wrong. NTSC consoles will have darker video with a PAL composite cable.

[rama]

I don't think they add that resistor in the bog standard composite cables. I could very well be wrong. Anyway, I have used composite cables that came with my pal Snes for an SFC with no ill effect that I could see.

But that's what they did :p
Nintendo did some very odd things between regions.
Also seen on controllers (added diodes prevent NTSC pads from working on PAL machines) and the insane decision to use an AC / AC adapter in PAL regions.

The image from a PAL SNES or N64 (possibly Gamecube as well) with an NTSC cable will be too bright.
An NTSC console with PAL cable will be too dark and have over saturated colors.

[Konsolkongen]

This look like a non 1chip system based on the blurry RGB picture. Isn’t this just a case of the systems CPU/PPU failing then? It has happened on a LOT of the old SNES consoles in the last years.

[Balleratt]

This look like a non 1chip system based on the blurry RGB picture. Isn’t this just a case of the systems CPU/PPU failing then? It has happened on a LOT of the old SNES consoles in the last years.

Thats what the seller was proposing really. And now he has gone silent over the weekend, so I have already shifted my focus on another region free switchless Super Famicom

[Konsolkongen]

Just make sure to get a 1CHIP. They haven’t started failing and you’ll get a far superior RGB image

[Balleratt]

Just managed to find the garbage composite cables for a PAL N64. And the same smearing shows up like with the other cables I've tried. So I guess that isolates the problem to the SNES!

[rama]

Great (well, kinda :p)!

So it's probably either a problem with the PPU2 DAC that generates the analog picture,
or one of the components in the video path (I guess on green) in the schematics:
https://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.p ... _color.pdf

It requires repair in any case.

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I have a super nintendo that does something similar. Sometimes it is perfect but after it warms up it starts freaking out usually.

Sometimes it will be perfect for no rhyme or reason. SNS-CPU-GPM-01 is the model iirc.It isn't the first model known for failing. I do have that model as well and it works fine. That one is so yellowed though, it is a ultra limited gold edition. The barney purple power and reset buttons are now shredder purple. In any case it seems to only affect certain background layers. It displays this symptoms through composite, s-video, and rgb.

It will flash green in areas of black over and over. Colors get pretty messed up on the SD2snes title screen and 240p test suite color bars. I assume it is a ppu failing, potentially a capacitor if I had to guess. I'll probably replace the caps sometime just to see if it changes anything. I've already replaced the the voltage regulator and one surface mount capacitor to remove the white line (which it did).

I plan to replace it with a 1 chip anyhow, just haven't found one for sale.