Survey for a project, please read and respond

[jp]

I think this got off to the wrong start, so lets try this again. Sorry if I seemed "offensive" towards "otakus".



Here's the question:
Here, here's the actual survey I sent out concerning this:
This situation has two characters. Jack and Robert.

Jack is a huge fan of anime and likewise is also a huge fan of Japanese culture (basically, he's an otaku). He loves everything Japanese. From the food, to the videogames, to the music, to manga(comics), to the television shows and movies. Jack cannot read Japanese. Jack does not know a lick of hirugana, katakana, and especially not kanji. One day Jack walks into a comic book shop and sees some T-Shirts with Japanese characters on them(more than likely kanji). He finds the shirt that has the coolest looking character(Japanese letter) on it and proceeds to buy it. He does not find out until 6 months later than the translation of the kanji letter is "Love".

Robert is in a death metal band. He makes angry music about killing children and sending people to hell. The problem is, Robert's band does not have a name. One day, while watching a show he discovers that the Hebrew word for Hell is "Gehenna". Because of this, he decides to name his band "Gehenna". Aside from "Gehenna", Robert has no further interest in the Hebrew language or the culture behind it.

The question is this:
Are these two situations the same thing? Rather, is it the same train of thought that gets Jack to buy the T-Shirt that also gets Robert to name his band "Gehenna"?

Please reply with a simple Yes or No, and thank you for your time.



If you guys would just reply, it would be appreciated.

[Ghegs]

Point two: Do Japanese do the same thing? Rather, do they wear clothes with English on them?

Of course they do.

That's what engrish is all about.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, 2 is a no-brainer "YES" for Americanophiles in Japan. They're worse than Americans are for taking random bits of foreign words and using them in any context.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

LOL

Damn, I love engrish.

I think I'd wear a "nihongo shirt" if it was cool enough. Though, I have to know exactly what it says. Talking 'bout shirts, I've one that says "You're what you eat" and my homemade Gradius V shirt .

[icycalm]

There are morons on both sides. Come to think of it, there are morons everywhere.

[Platypus[gEc]]

Nature will always make a better moron, there is no such thing as moron-proof...

Reminds me of the tat that says "Baka Gaijin" on some american.

[Rob]

Basically, why do these people purchase these articles of clothing?

What happened to those college degrees?

And why do people wear Nascar and Looney Tunes shirts in the South?

[JBC]

And why do people wear Nascar and Looney Tunes shirts in the South?

Being from the south i can answer this question. They where free, found, or bought quickly while at a truck stop to replace another shirt with either A. Tobacco, B. Coffee, or C. Beer spilt all over it. Said person will continue to wear this shirt until the next time they have to abandon it and buy another - which will likely end up being the defaultly accepted Nascar or Looney Tunes shirt. Fuckin' rednecks.

[it290]

The mentality pretty much seems the same to me as using the words 'nihongo' and 'gaijin' in your post title.. nothing wrong with that, but no need to ridicule it either, especially since you seem to be guilty of the very thing you're holding up for mockery.

[jp]

Whoa whoa whoa! Hold up guys. I'm not mocking American fans of the Japanese culture. That is NOT the purpose of this post. The purpose is basically the third section. This is NOT a "baka gaijin" post in any shape or form.


Here, here's the actual survey I sent out concerning this:
This situation has two characters. Jack and Robert.

Jack is a huge fan of anime and likewise is also a huge fan of Japanese culture (basically, he's an otaku). He loves everything Japanese. From the food, to the videogames, to the music, to manga(comics), to the television shows and movies. Jack cannot read Japanese. Jack does not know a lick of hirugana, katakana, and especially not kanji. One day Jack walks into a comic book shop and sees some T-Shirts with Japanese characters on them(more than likely kanji). He finds the shirt that has the coolest looking character(Japanese letter) on it and proceeds to buy it. He does not find out until 6 months later than the translation of the kanji letter is "Love".

Robert is in a death metal band. He makes angry music about killing children and sending people to hell. The problem is, Robert's band does not have a name. One day, while watching a show he discovers that the Hebrew word for Hell is "Gehenna". Because of this, he decides to name his band "Gehenna". Aside from "Gehenna", Robert has no further interest in the Hebrew language or the culture behind it.

The question is this:
Are these two situations the same thing? Rather, is it the same train of thought that gets Jack to buy the T-Shirt that also gets Robert to name his band "Gehenna"?

Please reply with a simple Yes or No, and thank you for your time.



If you guys would just reply, it would be appreciated.

[BulletMagnet]

Are these two situations the same thing? Rather, is it the same train of thought that gets Jack to buy the T-Shirt that also gets Robert to name his band "Gehenna"?

A bit of both, I'd say..."yes," in that both characters only associated themselves with the name/symbol because they thought it was "cool," and nothing more, but I'd also say "no," in the fact that the second guy at least knew what his shiny new word meant before taking it on, while the first guy didn't bother to find out.

[Axon]

I agree with BulletMagnet and I don't think some people know what they are talking about when they generalize someone as an otaku, as that word should only be used for the EXTREME fans.

[LoneSage]

I discounted the reactions of both individuals and looked at the question ("same train of thought led them to blah blah"), in which I do think that it was the same idea of thinking, just in different situations. In more black and white terms:
1. Person likes subject.
2. Person finds something 'exotic' in subject.
3. Person puts it to use.

However, I had not considered about the metal guy's pre-knowledge of what his word meant into my answer.

I do not believe there is a true wrong answer, however. Yes or no, as long as you can back it up.

[Rob]

Naming a death metal band is hard work. Think of all the taken names.

(finding a shirt not as hard, so obviously no!)

[jp]

Naming a death metal band is hard work. Think of all the taken names.

(finding a shirt not as hard, so obviously no!)

Rob, I think that is the most awesome logic behind this I have seen yet. Thank you.

[JBC]

Humorously enough, i was listening to Death when i read that.

[GaijinPunch]

There are morons on both sides. Come to think of it, there are morons everywhere.

I live by this statement, and it holds true in this topic. Both morons, for similar but different reasons.

[Nate]

jp:
Are you looking for a name for your death metal band?



Cause I have one - but you have to PM me or else it'll get snatched by someone else...

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Jack!? You mean the Jack from my japanese class who left after my last class? LOL. Odd coincidence or perhaps all Jacks are Japanese obsessed and can't handle even Hiragana and Katakana. The man had all kinds of excuses when it came to why he couldn't read Katakana after 5 months.

[EOJ]

Naming a death metal band is hard work. Think of all the taken names.

How about Diarrhea Elbow Fart? Don't think that one's taken yet.

[Neon]

It's not death metal enough.

We named our old death metal band in high school by looking through the medical journals of the bass player's mom. Alviolar! It's a part of the heart...or something.

I'd agree with Rob on the survey, also.

[raiden]

the valid reason for choosing a Kanji without knowing its meaning is the fact they have an aesthetic appeal independent from their meaning, which is not present in most (but a few) other languages. Kanji were conceived as abstract paintings in the beginning, and that´s what they still are, regardless of knowing their meaning.

[subcons]

There are morons on both sides. Come to think of it, there are morons everywhere.

I vote for this one.

And "yes" if I have to pick from your choices.

[Rob]

How about Diarrhea Elbow Fart? Don't think that one's taken yet.

Breaking the one word rule.

[EOJ]

the valid reason for choosing a Kanji without knowing its meaning is the fact they have an aesthetic appeal independent from their meaning, which is not present in most (but a few) other languages. Kanji were conceived as abstract paintings in the beginning, and that´s what they still are, regardless of knowing their meaning.

Not really. Kanji are from China (and should be termed more properly using the Chinese term, Hanzi, when speaking about their roots), and they are not abstract paintings (as pictograms are) but linguistic signs. Different readings of kanji aren't fundamentally different from orthographic lexemes in English that change their pronunciations (but not their spelling) based upon the grammatical context, such as 'read' (present/infinitive) and 'read' (past tense), the former homophonous with 'reed' and the latter homophonous with 'red', for example.

Oh, and the inverse of the example jp gave happens all the time in Japan. People buy shirts with random English words/sentences on them and they have no idea what they mean, they just like the way the English writing looks.

[EOJ]

Here, here's the actual survey I sent out concerning this:
This situation has two characters. Jack and Robert.

Jack is a huge fan of anime and likewise is also a huge fan of Japanese culture (basically, he's an otaku). He loves everything Japanese. From the food, to the videogames, to the music, to manga(comics), to the television shows and movies. Jack cannot read Japanese. Jack does not know a lick of hirugana, katakana, and especially not kanji. One day Jack walks into a comic book shop and sees some T-Shirts with Japanese characters on them(more than likely kanji). He finds the shirt that has the coolest looking character(Japanese letter) on it and proceeds to buy it. He does not find out until 6 months later than the translation of the kanji letter is "Love".

Robert is in a death metal band. He makes angry music about killing children and sending people to hell. The problem is, Robert's band does not have a name. One day, while watching a show he discovers that the Hebrew word for Hell is "Gehenna". Because of this, he decides to name his band "Gehenna". Aside from "Gehenna", Robert has no further interest in the Hebrew language or the culture behind it.

The question is this:
Are these two situations the same thing? Rather, is it the same train of thought that gets Jack to buy the T-Shirt that also gets Robert to name his band "Gehenna"?

They aren't the same thing because in Jack's case he is choosing a linguistic sign (more specifically, an orthographic form) based solely upon its visual aesthetic nature, with no regard to (or knowledge of) its semantics nor its phonetic realization (i.e. pronunciation). In Robert's case, both semantics and phonetic form are known and are given equal weight. Another way to look at it is visual versus aural aesthetic appeal, though in the latter again we also have an accompanying match of a desired meaning, which is absent in the former. It is irrelevant what language the word(s) came from.

[iatneH]

Naming a death metal band is hard work. Think of all the taken names.

How about Diarrhea Elbow Fart? Don't think that one's taken yet.

No, I think that's the English translation of what is written on Jack's T-shirt. Of course, he hasn't the faintest clue.

[Marc]

I'd say no, least the second guy had some idea of what he was doing.

[Michaelm]

No, one goes for looks, the other goes for meaning.

[Minzoku]

Jack is using personal aesthetics in his decision, Robert is using socially-determined connotations.

On a side note, both Jack and Engrish utilize the birdsong method--something is pleasing/attractive because the viewer has no idea what it means and is finding personal interest separate from actual meaning. Singing birds, after all, are really saying things like, "Get the hell out of my space!" or "Hey ladieeeees! Check out the new cock in town!" but we just can't tell...