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I've finally hooked up my gaming PC to my TV and have been thinking about upgrading my GPU, but it occurs to me that it's pretty pointless to do so until I upgrade my receiver. I currently have an Onkyo TX-NR525, which is actually pretty nice but does not have 4K60 passthrough or support HDR, so it's causing some issues. Here is how I have things connected now:
PS4, XB1, 360, GameCube > 4K HDMI switcher > TCL TV > ARC return on receiver
Switch, Wii U, PC > non-4K HDMI switcher > receiver > TCL TV
OSSC > TCL TV > ARC return on receiver

So, basically, the modern systems go into one input on the TV by way of a switcher so that I can get 4K video and HDR. The audio goes to the TV and then via ARC to the receiver. The OSSC goes directly into the TV because the receiver didn't like it, and again ARC supplies audio to the receiver. Finally, Switch, Wii U, and PC go into a switcher and then into the receiver because none of these output DTS or Dolby audio, so I have to rely on the receiver to get surround sound support. All things considered, this setup actually works quite well (aside from not being able to use uncompressed surround audio from PS4 and XB1) because I never have to change inputs on the receiver. Means I can use just the TV remote for everything, very convenient.

However, if I want to get 4K from the PC one of these days, I won't be able to run it through the same switcher as the modern consoles because all GPUs, as far as I can tell, output LPCM audio, so I will only get stereo by going to the TV. I've tried using the optical out, but can't seem to get any audio that way, so I gave up on that as an option. These means that I have to go to the receiver first, but then I am limited to 1080p if I want 60 Hz.

Long story short, I think it's time to simplify and upgrade the receiver. I think I'd be able to eliminate the HDMI switchers entirely by doing so, which eliminates a few power plugs and points of failure besides. I'm going on the assumption that there are at least a few audiophiles here who are also gaming purists and will understand my needs. What I'm looking for:

-Good gaming performance. I don't need it to do any upscaling on the receiver and really would rather that it didn't. I want zero lag added by the receiver if possible.
-4K 60Hz with HDR passthrough
-At least 6 inputs, preferably 7 or 8
-OSSC compatibility would be nice, but I can always run that to the TV and use ARC for audio.
-HDMI automatic switching/detection, if that's even a thing for receivers. Or some other way of not needing a million remotes.
-I've only got a 5.1 setup, so 7.1 is not necessary. Atmos or DTS:X is a nice future-proof bonus, but not essential.
-Good value. I definitely prize audio quality, but not at the expense of true audiophile gear. Just something reasonably nice at a fair price.
-Anything else that I am forgetting about :p

Any suggestions?

I'm no audiophile and I certainly haven't compared a lot of receivers, but the receiver I own, Pioneer VSX-532, is available for $199.99 on Amazon, and seems to fit most of your requirements.

It doesn't meet your input # requirements though. When I purchased it in 2017, I looked for receivers with a lot of inputs, and 6-8 inputs put me in the realm of higher-end more expensive receivers, so I ended up having to do a separate 4K/HDR-supporting switcher... it was a lot cheaper that way.

- I've never measured it but I've never noticed any kind of lag on it, and all my systems go through it
- Supports 4K HDR
- 4 inputs, 1 output
- Never tried OSSC with it, I use XRGB-mini and that works fine
- HDMI autoswitching/detection is called CEC, and this receiver supports it
- It's 5.1, doesn't support Atmos/DTS:X though, but really, there's no point in supporting those if the receiver is only 5.1.
- It's a good value to me at only $199. Sounds great to me.

This receiver does support SPDIF audio from SNES, Saturn, PlayStation, and Dreamcast at their native sampling rates with no resampling necessary, if you happen to be into that kind of thing.

How does the autoswitching work? I thought CEC was just saying that it could receive commands, so do you have to, say, program the TV to tell the receiver to switch inputs? In the case of your receiver, I'd have to use another switcher anyway, so it wouldn't matter as much, but ideally I would love to never have to touch the receiver's remote (or anything other than the TV remote, which is just a little Roku remote).

I would really just recommend getting whichever AVR has the kind of inputs and bandwidth/HDMI support you need that fits your budget, and don't necessarily limit yourself to 5.1 units, because the ones that support more channels can just as easily support your 5.1 setup.

Personally, I have an Onkyo TX-NR555. I picked it up on sale last year when it was in the process of being discontinued/replaced. It's a 7.2/5.2.2 AVR with 6 inputs (3 of which do HDCP 2.2) that'll handle up to 4K60 with HDR and Dolby Vision, has no problems with my OSSC (Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360 Xenon; N64 S-Video through Kramer FC-4044, prior to fitting an UltraHDMI), and supposedly will automatically switch inputs when HDMI CEC is enabled (but I have it disabled, because my Samsung TV is too old and doesn't play nice with it).

I've also expanded my HDMI input count by adding a Vorke HD41Pro, which has been shown to play nice with the OSSC. Honestly, I've been thinking about getting one or two more, so that I can route all of my game consoles into the Game input, because, honestly, I only have game consoles and a Roku (and a turntable) hooked up to my AVR, and I want as simple a setup as possible.

If you want to stick with Onkyo, I would suggest picking up a TX-NR585. To me, it looks a lot like just a newer iteration of the TX-NR555 that I have. It's currently $300 on Amazon.

I wouldn't say I'm limiting myself to 5.1, just saying I don't need more than that. If it has more, that's fine. I suspect most do these days. I'm currently looking at the TX-NR676 cuz Crutchfield has a scratch n dent for $270 and it seems to fit my needs. Just want to make sure I'm not missing something or doing something dumb :p

I think the NR676 is the same thing, but with a more powerful amp (100W vs 80W) and a couple of other bells and whistles, like a 7th HDMI input on the front, and a secondary HDMI output for connecting a subwoofer instead of using the existing two RCA coaxial outputs. I would expect it to work the same.

I have the 676 but don't use it on retro game systems, only the XBOX One, PS4, and Switch. It's good, don't get me wrong, but I would have preferred a Denon instead. I think in this case you get what you pay for; the Denon costs more, but from everything I've read, it provides better sound and video. Can't confirm, since I've never tested a newer Denon, but that's my opinion. The 676 is definitely solid though, and has been on sale the past 6 months, so it's a thumbs up from that perspective.

For my retro game systems (including my OSSC), I have a Pioneer SC-67, which has plenty of inputs. No 4K/HDR so not a great fit for you, but great for me!

I recently upgraded to a Denon AVR-X3500H and it has been a pleasant experience. I run my OSSC through it without issue. It fits your use case in all areas except for signal sensing automatic switching. I think there is a way to set that up with Hdmi CEC but I don't use it.

It's a wonderful receiver and as far as I can tell it adds no lag if you turn off the video processor. You won't get transparent menus that overlay with the image, but it's not a big lose. You won't see an onscreen volume adjuster, but if you're using ARC your display will probably display its own volume control when adjusting the volume like mine does.

DirkSwizzler has a 3400H, but uses external HDMI switchers in in his setup built for "no-compromises fully auto-switched gaming." One of the My Life in Gaming guys also uses the 3400h. The 3500h is the 2018 model.

Useful links:
I recommend this HDMI Equipment for OSSC + 4K60 18Gbps
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63585

RGB106 :: Modern & Retro Gaming on 4K TVs - Upscaling, HDR, Capturing & More
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dym6XD3-8qw

Keep in mind that Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer Home Electronics are all the same company these days. At least Onkyo/Integra has finally stopped selling AVRs that self-destruct from heat damage and bad HDMI chips. The fact that Onkyo recalls were a permanent sticky over at AVS Forum for a long time tells you all you really need to know. They're kind of an "eh" line of AVRs with outdated interfaces and not something I'd really recommend. Sony isn't much better, sadly.

As for what I do recommend, Yamaha and Denon/Marantz (Marantz is a Denon brand) are good bets for the mass market consumer stuff. Any AVR with real speaker binding posts on all channels and new enough to have 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0b ports with HDCP 2.2, Dolby Vision, and HLG support should give you trouble-free service without doing something stupid like converting everything to 4:2:2 even in pass-through mode (all pre-2017 Denon/Marantz only supported 4:2:2 color). As long as you don't buy the very bottom-end model, e.g. Denon S540BT, you should be fine (these are usually outsourced to OEMs/ODMs and notably different/worse than the rest of the lineup). Generally speaking, I wouldn't touch anything pre-2017 outside of the higher-end 2016 Yamahas that got the HLG firmware update.

I'm partial to Yamaha for the build quality, software quality, and arguably superior room correction on the higher-end models with YPAO RSC (RX-V685/RX-A780 and up), but that's just me. Only weird thing on the Yamaha I don't like is that ARC is seemingly intentionally broken by design where the AVR expects audio over an external Toslink link from the TV instead of ARC via HDMI. If you turn on the the AVR from the TV via HDMI-CEC it expects audio from this Toslink connection instead of the HDMI video source the AVR is currently switched to, but a quick press of an input button on the AVR's remote quickly fixes this. This may not bother you at all or infuriate you to no end.

If you're willing to deal with factory refurbs, overstocks, and NOS inventory, Accessories4less is the best vendor out there for that kind of stuff on receivers.

The only thing you have to watch for with the OSSC is that it only outputs full-range sRGB instead of the usual limited-range YUV normally associated with video (setting things like the Xbox to RGB instead of YUV/YCbCr will break things...). The OSSC tries to tell the display via EDID that this is the case via the OSSC's "HDMI ITC" option, but you may need to manually set the HDMI input the OSSC is on to full-range RGB.

While I have the AVR-X3400H and it's pretty nice. I firmly believe that for gaming it's a better choice to use an HDMI audio extractor to marry all the audio capabilities of my receiver with all the video capabilities of my tv.

The one I linked above splits audio off to it's own hdmi cable where the video is just black screen 1080p60. While sending unmodified video to the TV. It makes me much happier than ARC and completely removes the receiver from the video equation.

Eh, I don't know if I quite want to add yet another power plug to my setup. What I could do, assuming that auto switching isn't really a thing with AVRs as seems to be the case, is get a bigger 4K auto switcher. I reconfigured a bit so now the setup is:
OSSC > TV > ARC
PS4 > TV > ARC
XB1, 360, Switch, Wii U, PC > Switcher > AVR > TV

GameCube was just moved back to RGBs instead. Going forward, elimination of the second switcher and just using the one 4K switcher would make things work pretty well even on an AVR with fewer inputs and, in fact, would also solve the auto switching for most of the systems. I'm recalling now that the issue I had with the OSSC was mostly that at the time I left it on all the time and that didn't play nice with the auto switcher. I have since started turning it off when not in use, so that's not really relevant anymore. Can't remember if the receiver also had issues with the signal, though. In any case, still looking at a new AVR for the 4K60/HDR passthrough, but this helps cut down some of the requirements.

Is Onkyo really that unreliable now? I've had mine for like 10 years now with no issues. Anecdotal, for sure, but I bought it originally because they were a reputable brand. But if Denons aren't too much more and are a noticeable improvement, I'll look at some of those.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Follow those links. I highly recommend the audio extractor/switcher that was suggested in that first link. I recently upgraded all of my stuff and followed along in that thread. I use a combination of the ViewHD Prosumer switcher and KNIVIO's new 4k60 autoswitcher. The Prosumer switcher/extractor is my main device. The output goes directly to my TV, but the audio extracted from there goes into my old Denon A/V Receiver. (My receiver couldn't handle the OSSC, or some of the other consoles I was sending through it).

I now have automatic switching of all my consoles (PC, NES, SNES, N64, Game Cube, Switch, PS3) and the audio is happily sent to my receiver. I love my setup now, and knowing that it's all 4k60 compliant is great for future purchases.

It's not just a matter of being "reliable" or not, there are things such as software differences, room EQ (probably should be a thing to value) and "sound signature" that makes a HUGE difference.

I've owned a Yamaha and 2 different Onkyos in the past. Last Month i've bought a Marantz 6013 and it's a different world, can't compare it.

Obviously you don't need something like the 6013 (9ch with the ability to process 11ch with external amp) but a "decent" amp will make a huge difference in sound if you really care for it and if you also pair it with good speakers.

Just my 2 cents

Now that I think about it, with an audio extractor like the one linked, I could actually get away with not even upgrading the receiver. Not to say that it couldn't potentially be useful to upgrade it one day, but I wouldn't need to. In which case, let me ask some additional questions:
-Does the extractor just go after the switcher? That way it would work on whatever is coming out. Hopefully devices like my PC that can only output LPCM audio would properly detect that it can send a 5.1 signal?
-Presumably I could still control the volume of the receiver using CEC using the TV remote? I'd still want ARC for the TV audio as well, so I guess I can't see that being a problem, but just checking.

I've been happy enough with my sound quality, so an extractor would definitely be a more affordable option. Though I would, ideally, need a switcher with more inputs. Having trouble finding a good 4K one with more than 5, though... 7 would be ideal. And having 2 outputs would be nice for potential future streaming options. So switcher would output to capture card and to extractor, extractor goes to TV and AVR.

You may want to go ahead and at least read the first post from my HDMI recommendations thread that's been linked here.

The extractor in my setup goes after the splitter. I haven't tried doing any arc operations through the extractor. But it doesn't really apply to my case. I have my games hooked up to a non-ARC port of my TV. And the receiver is directly connected to the ARC port of my TV.

While I can't be sure there absolutely aren't excellent switchers with more inputs and dual outputs. I would very much bet against any of us having a reasonable chance of finding one soon. There's a graveyard section of that thread of all the devices I've tried that don't work well.

And regarding power plugs. I got a beefy 5v 10a power brick and use barrel plug splitters to run most of my HDMI stuff. Just gotta make sure you are mindful not to overload it or your stuff will just occasionally be a bit flaky.

Alright, I'll have a look. I was thinking about doing something like that for power as well, maybe one day. For now, the ARC is mainly a concern because the OSSC, PS4, and naturally any native apps on the TV will need to send audio to the AVR. I suppose that could technically be the same line as the extractor if that works, but it could be a separate HDMI line that literally only sends audio and control signals. Say, what is the power adapter and daisy chain you use? Would love to get one of those while I'm at it

Edit: That splitter you recommend, the description is a little confusing. Does it send 4K60 to one output and 1080p to the other? If it does and both have audio, that's actually perfect for my streaming applications, but just want to check first.

The one I have marked as splitter sends whatever is input unmodified to both outputs.

The one I have marked as audio extractor does something different. And for some reason they throw the word "splitter" in their marketing. It sends the unmodified input down one output. But the "audio only" output gets it's video signal replaced with a 1080p black screen.

I also followed DirkSwizzler's post and mimicked the setup and have been thoroughly satisfied. It strips the audio and sends it directly to the receiver, so your receiver will still control and process audio. The pure video is then sent directly to the TV to minimize lag. Your Onkyo is perfectly capable of setting up inputs to counteract this. I've never, ever had any success with ARC. But every TV I've had has had Toslink out and the Onkyo supports Toslink assignable input, which is what I use. So you wouldn't necessarily need ARC, since audio would still be routed to the receiver. You never mentioned your remote control, but if it's programmable (Logitech One!), it will iron out all the different selectables and eliminate further user interaction. Because of all of these, I can put not-always-on devices on the HDMI switch that DirkSwizzler recommended.

The remote I'm currently using is just the Roku remote that came with the TV. It's handy because powering on the TV also powers on the receiver, powering off powers both off. Volume controls on the TV also control the receiver volume. And finally, the ARC sends the audio from the TV to the receiver (either as DD+ or DTS). So it's a really handy setup that makes it so that everything automagically "just works" and I can use my simple, tiny remote and not have to mess with anything else.

Regarding splitter, nevermind, I read it closer and I see what they are saying. It's just sending the EDID from one or the other of the connected TVs, so I'd have to set the PS4 to 1080p for capture in my case but whatever.

I've not had a lot of luck with configuring the optical input for whatever reason, but that could just be because of what I was trying to do. Having said that, I still wouldn't get the on/off functionality or the volume control and those are a lot of the reason why I like ARC. Still, it sounds like that's something I can mess around with. I'm going to grab one of the switchers, the splitter, and the extractor and see how it goes. Dirk, what's the power supply setup you are using? I'd love to pick that up at the same time, I think it would work with my existing switcher as well so then I only need to buy the one new one.

HDMI CEC is what provides the on/off and volume control functionality, whereas ARC is simply support for sending audio data from the display, over HDMI, to the receiver.

I think there might have been a small window of AVRs that could do HDMI-CEC but not ARC, in which case your TV could still turn on your AVR, and vice versa, but you'd still have needed to run TOSLINK from your display to your AVR in order to get audio to your AVR; but this is entirely moot with current hardware.

I guess I confused your use of the receiver. Since you have that decent Onkyo, I assumed you had speakers attached for audio output, but maybe you're TV is volume out? Or are you only concerned with controlling the volume of the TV apps? Either way all sound should pass through the receiver if you have speakers attached. I have a TCL TV as well, and I love it, but didn't know it would also power on the receiver.

And you're correct that on/off wouldn't be controlled here, which is why I recommended the programmable remote. After what can be a complicated setup, it immensely simplifies everything on the user side to a single button press. But it's more money to spend I suppose...

No, speakers are connected to the Onkyo. The TV sends audio to the receiver via the ARC. This same connection sends the on/off signals and can also send volume control signals. So I never have to touch anything with the receiver, it's all controlled by the TV (but audio is still output via the speakers connected to the receiver). It's incredibly convenient. So my hope is that I can maintain that functionality with the new setup. The extractor has ARC functionality, but I guess it might have to be toggled manually? If so, that's a little annoying (especially since we frequently switch between TV apps and gaming), but at least it would work. If that's too annoying, I could go the optical route (since the TV can only output up to DD+ anyway) and hopefully still use the CEC to control the receiver.

I see. Unless I'm still confused (likely!), you're not using the HDMI switching capabilities of the Onkyo, only changing the HDMI inputs on the TCL manually. Then ARCing all audio to the Onkyo, which never switches inputs, and outputs audio through its connected speakers. If my simplification is correct, I would suggest having the Onkyo handle the HDMI switching and use only 2 HDMI inputs on the TCL. One for whatever AV is coming from most sources on the Onkyo, the other would be the video in from the OSSC once your splitter/switch setup arrives. Have the Onkyo do all the work for you!

But I live and die by the Harmony remote, where I can program mode switching, input switching, volume, device power on/off, etc all into a single button press. But to each his own, not trying to dissuade you if your setup works well for you.

I feel like a broken record, does anyone else feel this way, or just me??

That's more or less correct. Technically it's slightly more complicated. Currently the OSSC and PS4 Pro go into inputs on the TV and the rest go into a switcher that goes into the receiver and from the receiver into the TV. The receiver connects to the TV in HDMI 3 (the ARC channel). But the receiver is smart enough to know if audio is coming over ARC or from the switcher, so although I am technically inputting audio to the receiver from two different sources, ARC takes priority regardless of what input I am on. This means that I can set the receiver to the input used for the switcher, but if I am watching something on the TV or playing OSSC/PS4, the receiver will output that audio instead without me having to change inputs on the receiver.

I should clarify that I do have a Harmony remote and it's set up for everything I have, but I find this setup to be a lot simpler and more convenient. Don't have to sit there pointing the remote for a minute while I wait for everything to turn on and change inputs because... well, I don't have to change inputs (except on the TV, which I do with the TV remote) and power is controlled by the TV. And I didn't have to configure actions in My Harmony to make it work, either

It was probably something I got from DigiKey and they don't keep my order history forever. HDMI isn't as susceptible to noise as analog stuff, so just about any beefy brick will do the job. Just be sure to do the amperage math to cover all the single adapters you're replacing. Or be prepared to cross your fingers that they overshot their requirements.

EDIT: And you're probably correct that it's compatible with your current equipment. In my experience, 95% of the HDMI equipment is 5v, center positive. And at least 80% of those use the standard barrel size. Sometimes you need a tip adapter though.

The barrel splitters probably came from aliexpress in packs of a million for $10 shipped. The tip adapters are the same deal.

Alright, I'll figure that part out then Thanks! Switcher, splitter, and extractor ordered.

Good luck, but don't be That Guy we make fun of over at another forum that ends up making some crazy Rube Goldberg contraption based around some decade-plus year old AVR because they won't upgrade for some reason or another. Technology moves on and AVRs have a useful shelf life around 7-8 years or so before their lack of modern features and performance negatively affects basic functionality with modern peripherals, which is what you're running into.

If it wasn't for the need of 8x ports of automatic HDMI switching, you could easily get new receivers with 7x HDMI inputs all day long, no problem. Standalone automatic HDMI switches with 18 Gbps support are readily available and cheap, but things get expensive at >5 ports. That said, the $300 8x1 ATEN VS0801HB is exactly the HDMI switch a lot of people are looking for right now.


Would be interesting to test as those audio extractors are usually limited to the bandwdith of SPDIF, so you'll likely only get stereo out from the PC unless you can somehow generate something like Dolby Digital Plus on the PC. Only way to extract 8+ channels of LPCM I'm aware of are the ones with dedicated HDMI audio ports like this one: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0755TB82Q


Supposedly the latest (Pioneer-based?) 18Gbps HDMI 2.0b models are reliable, but the pre-merger Onkyo HDMI 1.4 models where a "when, not if..." when it came to them eventually failing. You bought yours before all the fun started.

Just one example of the fun:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-recei ... 018-a.html


Pretty much, yep.

For what it's worth now that the OP found another solution, but I cannot recommend Yamaha enough.

Recently upgraded to an RX-A2080 which sounds absolutely amazing, but is of course pretty pricey. I upgraded from a 7 year old RX-A1010, that I used for approximately 6-7 hours a day, every day since purchase and it NEVER bugged out or gave me any problems of any sort. In fact, I'm quite confident in saying that it's the most bugfree and flawless consumer electronic experience I've ever had

Both receivers are completely lag free (measured with the lagtester on the OSSC). The upscaler is turned off by default on both units so what you input is what you see on the screen, no more, no less. Which also means that every weird and obscure OSSC resolution and timing is passed through with no problems what so ever

I can only guess, but I would assume that this goes for all the Yamaha AVRs, or at least the Aventage-series.

The 1010 was praised in reviews for its excellent (for a surround amp anyway) stereo music playback which was very important for me, and I was indeed very impressed by how my music sounded on this thing. The 2080 is of course noticeably better in this regard since it's a more expensive and newer model.
I wouldn't describe myself as an audiophile, but I am very picky and do most of my music listening on original CDs through an external Arcam airDAC. It sounds awesome

I was so pleased with the 1010 that I didn't even consider another brand when upgrading. The 2080 sure hasn't disappointed

Just wanted to chime in. Maybe this will be of help to someone

From the description, the extractor should support multichannel LPCM, but I'll know for sure once it gets here. Looks like the power supplies of the ones I already own use the same plug as guitar pedals, so assuming the new ones are the same it should be easy enough to find a daisy chain. A 5V output, however, might be trickier...