Diablo 3

[drauch]

one of the first bosses is a moth lady

Why you dissin' moth ladys?

One really bad breakup

[guigui]

Not really sure what I'm reading here, do you people say something like D1>D2>D3 ?

After about 4 hours in D3, I am having some fun, but encounter about zero resistance from the enemies. I'm just goring through everything, do not even need to think about anything to build my character.
Do things get harder at some point ? Do we sometimes need to think a little ?

[Immryr]

i mean, you can up the difficulty at any time iirc.

[Sumez]

It's totally not going to be a micro-transactioned pay to win piece of trash.

Isn't it reportedly just a reskin of another game already made once or twice by the same chinese devs?

Worked for Pokemon Go, so why not Diablo.

[BryanM]

A dreadful rumor is that they're going to sell "characters", like here's the Wizard that has Hydra, here's the one with Blizzard etc...

It'd be like a gacha game with lots of characters! Minus the characters being different aesthetically or storywise. That would cost development money.

It's an entertaining trainwreck, but a part of me feels really sad about what could have been if the people in charge of these decisions were actually a fan of Diablo games. I'm sure lots of people would be fine with a new game that recycled the 3d models used in Diablo 2, but Blizzard would rather vomit blood than go back to 2d renders.

Just getting vanilla World of Warcraft back, which could end up getting played more than their current version of the game... having a tangible number like that which would imply that all their years of work only made the game worse, that would just be humiliating to their egos.

Not really sure what I'm reading here, do you people say something like D1>D2>D3 ?

They're different games that appeal to different people. The first game is the best one for story/atmosphere/lore nerds. The second one for OCD math nerds. The third one for those who want arcade action start to finish.

[Sumez]

The second one for OCD math nerds.

See, that's the exact thing I don't like about Diablo 2, and it's something fans eventually turned it into when trying to min-max their characters. I don't think the game is designed for that at all.
It's the legacy that D3 lifted and built on though, to the point where every characters damage output is determined entirely as "DPS". Like, it's the unit used in-game. Essentially every character also feels almost the same in that game, due to too many liberties in making unique quirks would screw up their carefully planned balance.

Though D2 is definitely more balanced than D1, it still remains a ton more fun than D3, and if you're playing it like a spreadsheet, you're only ruining things for yourself. Get some friends together, play locally even if you're using battle.net. Experiment, have fun, enjoy the world of the game, and maybe just stick to the first couple of difficulties, without worrying too much about where your character build is going.

[BryanM]

This does remind me of the time they showed off their rough draft of Starcraft using the Warcraft 2 engine. It was meant to be a quick and easy little game to develop, but they were so roundly humiliated by their peers, the press, and their customers that they put more work into it.

Fast forward decades to now. Activision is so huge, no press outlet is willing to cross them for fear of losing access and advertising revenue. In an era where all they can do is troll gamers to get clicks as they otherwise have no relevancy or purpose in the modern age, they can't be anything more than shills. 97% of their fans can tell them "no thank you" and they'll still press ahead with a 1 year development cycle reskined cash grab.

See, that's the exact thing I don't like about Diablo 2, and it's something fans eventually turned it into when trying to min-max their characters.... if you're playing it like a spreadsheet, you're only ruining things for yourself.

I completely disagree. Without the research to find out that Blade Fury's tiny wimpy ass +x damage per skill level applies to the base damage, and that you can apply crushing blow with it, I never would have made a Blade Fury Assassin, which turned out to be one of my favorite characters ever.

Of course it's weak as hell compared to Lightning Sentry, especially versus crowds. Damn near everything is - Lightning Sentry is a completely busted skill.

The great thing here is that the way to maximize the two skills are so very different. The exploration of how these things work. The game has lots of weird skills like this - Smite, the Concentration Aura working with Blessed Hammer, the assassin's kicks, etc. That is the appeal it has to those with OCD.

[Sumez]

See, just reading that paragraph made me like Diablo 2 less.
It's cool that people enjoy that, but I really have to ignore the existance of that kind of stat geekery to have fun with the game myself. Which is also why I try to only play with people I know locally, rather than online stuff.

[BryanM]

It's probable you don't actually like the game very much. You like enjoying it with your friends.

The social aspect has been a booster for a lot of things with niche appeal. Probably a major reason why shmups were so easy to flame out..

[Sumez]

Huh no. I also enjoy it a lot in singleplayer. I don't understand why you think the game has to turn into a min-maxing statfest. It's not like they hit the players over the head with it, it's something the fanbase built up over many years. I like videogames, not Excel.

[Cagar]

-

[BryanM]

That'd be hilarious, but I can't imagine how. There's no one this serves - the Chinese market they're trying to move into already has access to the original non-reskinned version of this game. Old cat food is not gonna go viral.

It's not like they hit the players over the head with it

What.

It has nothing but numbers in it. The primary reward function is loot.

It's like I said "I exchanged my Copper Sword for a Broad Sword in Dragon Warrior when I was eight because it had bigger numbers" and you compared that to using Excel....

[drauch]

Yeah, I've always hated how people play D2. It was enormously satisfying beating Hell on hardcore over LAN with a group of three people, just using what we found and building characters how we wanted. Constantly doing runs and trades and whatever to get that perfect rune word zaps the fun out of it.

[Sumez]

[BryanM]

Heh, it's been a great advertising opportunity for the competition.

Remember when Blizzard was gonna enforce an unenforceable "real name" policy on its forum?

[Udderdude]

My Diablo experience is rather limited. I played Diablo 3 a bit and thought it wasn't that bad, but was never really compelled to play it to death. Never even played Diablo 2, although I do have it installed.

This does remind me of the time they showed off their rough draft of Starcraft using the Warcraft 2 engine. It was meant to be a quick and easy little game to develop, but they were so roundly humiliated by their peers, the press, and their customers that they put more work into it.

I remember reading this a few years back. Blizzard even poked fun at it in Starcraft's expansion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUWfNKzfxVQ

Diablo Hellfire (an expansion to Diablo developed by an external team selected for their availability rather than expertise)

Oh, the ironing.

[BryanM]

It wasn't even as terrible as it could have been, and there's a slice of the base that still holds it in warm regard.

The people at Blizzard did everything they could to make sure it and the people who made it got buried. Their mandate that they weren't allowed to implement multiplayer was beyond standard decency - I don't care if it was a total shit sandwich. Some innocent kid buys a game from your IP, there's no reason to make it even worse for them.

Of course the easter eggs that made the mothership enraged were among the most beloved features by players; the Bard and Barbarian especially.

__

I think they're up to the fifth iteration of Diablo 4 right now? I'm sure whatever they finally come out with six years from now would have been better off as a Diablo 3 expansion.

[Jeneki]

The recent reviews for Path of Exile on steam are pretty hilarious, stuff like "I saw the trailer at blizzcon and decided to check it out." lol

[Ruldra]

This Immortal fiasco DID make me curious enough to try Path of Exile, in fact. Too bad it doesn't run well on my crap PC, but seems to be a very good alternative to Diablo. Plus it's free so no reason not to check it out.

I'm also keeping an eye on Grim Dawn, might buy it during the next Steam sale.

[Sumez]

Plus it's free so no reason not to check it out.

My time isn't free

[drauch]

I found PoE pretty boring. It's too derivative; a true meaning to the "diablo clone" tag.

Grim Dawn I like quite a bit. Frantic gameplay, good loot, and a nice Solomon Kane-esque setting. Could stand to be a little darker and some of the world design seems lacking, but the gameplay is solid and addicting.

[Despatche]

Bump.

Path of Exile did the right thing with getting rid of loops, but it really needs to have some kind of offline version.

Grim Dawn is great. Titan Quest AE is also great. Combining classes makes just about every part of the game design better.

Over the months, Diablo Immortal has looked more interesting than it should be. I agree with Cagar, this game is probably going to make more money in a month than the actual games ever will, even if Diablo 4 happens. I hate the mobile market.

Me, I'm really looking forward to Torchlight Frontiers. Now that's a game where the online matters. The plans for a conventional console port also have me excited, I've already added it to the gigantic list of reasons I need a PS4...

[BryanM]

I agree with Cagar, this game is probably going to make money in a month than the actual games ever will, even if Diablo 4 happens. I hate the mobile market.

I really don't think it's gonna do that great.

A core necessity for a successful free to play mobile game is retention. These are games they want people to play for years. But it's impossible for anyone to actively play any game for that long constantly. There has to be an auto-play function, so you can make progress while your brain is free to do other things. In this respect, these kind of games have a lot in common with the soap operas on TV. (And like with MMO's, it's not a good, long market for game churn since every game in the market is asking for you to marry the thing.)

Another necessary feature is a constant stream of updates, at least a couple times a month. Maybe they'll do something evil and sell characters with narrow skill lists instead of the broader classes we're used to. Still, it'd get old seeing variations of the same six characters over and over again. Diablo was not the franchise to do this in, obviously they should have made a new one - it's so lazy of them.

As for the Chinese market, I have zero information on that. If the population there has phones but no access to computers, and if there isn't already "good enough" competition that's already captured the niche (which I suspect there should be), maybe they will make some money there.

...Buuuut on the other hand, its asking price of $0 means it has a chance to do better with BryanM's who didn't buy Diablo 3. Combined with the fact they're using recycled assets, it'll have to be a little profitable for them.