shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:13 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7165 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225 ... 239  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:51 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 457
I can't think of a good reason to use s-video cables for that purpose? It is completely non-standard - meaning it will be confusing as no device with an s-video port would work. I don't know that commonly available s-video cables are particularly well-made? Even the well made ones would presumably use the ground pins for coax.. which wouldn't work in this setup that I guess would need ground on the outer ring as all the pins are being used. I can't think of any advantage of using s-video over, say, VGA which at least has pins for RGB and sync already, as well as normally being well shielded, spare pins for stuff like vcc or audio. Alternatively just picking another common connector at random such as mini din 8 would provide a lot more flexibility, and that already has a somewhat standard RGB pinout anyway.

There are the 7 pin "s-video" connectors.. which could conceivably be used, but I am not sure what advantage they afford.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:07 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 879
headlesshobbs wrote:
Awesome! Leo Bodnar has some actual competition now and maybe they'll have the incentive to improve their product line now.

OK question:

I've been wondering for the longest time why s-video cables have not been used to carry RGB signals instead when there's enough pins to support independent color lines, including one for H/V sync. This has been my "Elephant in the room" issue for awhile now.

But there's not though...

Luma + Luma ground
Chroma + Chroma ground

There's your 4 pins


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:23 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 366
RGB needs five lines: red, green, blue, sync, and ground.

It would be possible to use an S-video connector for this IF the outer connector-shield were kept separate as its own line. However, on top of all the cheap cables that don't even connect this to anything at all, there are probably others that connect it internally to the ground pins for luma and chroma.

On top of that, decent S-video cables will run the luma/chroma ground lines as shielding over the luma/chroma active lines. If you put another signal on these, the cables would have AC coupling interference like crazy and would also not be proper 75-ohm impedance.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:21 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1427
headlesshobbs wrote:
Awesome! Leo Bodnar has some actual competition now and maybe they'll have the incentive to improve their product line now.

OK question:

I've been wondering for the longest time why s-video cables have not been used to carry RGB signals instead when there's enough pins to support independent color lines, including one for H/V sync. This has been my "Elephant in the room" issue for awhile now.

It's a good question why the 4-pin DIN connector wasn't used for RGB to begin with; however, I imagine it wasn't used for both YC and RGBS because it would've caused customer confusion with people trying to feed RGB into a device that only supported YC, or YC into an RGB-only device.

Also, wouldn't it be best to have both positive and negative leads for each signal, rather than have a common ground?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 453
Location: Europistan
Are any of the Neo Geo multicards electrically sound or all they all plagued by 3V3 vs 5V Level translation issues?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:41 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
Posts: 975
I'm in the USA and want to buy a video converter which only works with UK 230v power. They're called step-up converters, right? Are these OK to use with video devices (i.e. won't add any static if I use a decent quality one)? Any suggestions on which one to get, only need to power one item at 6va (so hopefully not super large).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 118
Location: Manchester, UK
Hi folks. I just got hold of an Extron Dvs 304 for the purposes of upscaling my 24khz Sega model 1,2 and 3 boards. I've got Virtua Fighter 3 hooked up via the model 3's VGA output (RGBHV at 384p I believe). I'm getting fat, white, vertical streaks down the image for some reason. Does anybody have the foggiest idea what might be going on in this image?

https://m.imgur.com/a/evc0HdE


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:40 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11835
Location: Germany
unfortunately no idea, but I have to ask: what do you expect to get out of the Extron after you've been using an OSSC for your 24khz boards? I also recall you using the XPC-4 in the past, right? What was your experience in regards to XPC vs. OSSC in terms of doubling 384p to 768p?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 118
Location: Manchester, UK
The OSSC's 384px2 wasn't compatible with my 4k FALD Panasonic unfortunately. I tried combining it with a Gefen VGA to DVI which worked fairly well, but I could never quite get the sampling right and I was also a little tired of having so much clutter and wiring around, so I was hoping the DVS 304 could simplify things.

The OSSC was perfect really, although display compatibility was an issue, and also 768p on a 4k screen doesn't look too hot - the XPC-4 gave me micro stutters in motion but the 1080p scaling was fantastic. If I hadn't sold the damn thing I'd still be using it. Ha.

Perhaps after Brexit ruins our economy I'll finally be able to afford to buy a house and have the room I need to get the Astro City I always wanted, then I can forget about video processors.


Last edited by Das Muel on Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:05 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11835
Location: Germany
If the 304 doesn't work out for you, you should try the OSSC coupled with the Extron DSC301. It's such a great combo and should help you with possible incompatibilities.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:39 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 245
Do any computer monitors support deinterlacing and if so what do I have to look for?
_________________
I am not an alcoholic, I'm Drunk! Alcoholics go to AA meetings.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:41 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2273
headlesshobbs wrote:
Do any computer monitors support deinterlacing and if so what do I have to look for?

This is a question that should have more information. What are you trying to do and why?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:04 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 245
I want to consider getting a 4k panel, but I need it to support 480i from the PS2 through ossc and I don't want to fall back on bob interlacing.

Much as others say that using the Frammeister is the best choice, I'm not one bit a fan of it's cost and 4:2:2 yuv conversion.
_________________
I am not an alcoholic, I'm Drunk! Alcoholics go to AA meetings.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:02 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Canada
I can probably get away with not buying another matrix switch if I make use of loop-outs on my monitors--but there's a problem.

I want to put the signal into a PVM-14L5, and then loop that out to a PVM-2530.

Using RGBS BNC to Male VGA--->Female VGA to custom "computer" connector I made.

Powering the 14L5 on and off doesn't affect the 2530 at all, but if I only power on the 14L5 then it looks like it's being overdriven. Power it on and boom--proper levels.

Is this due to improper termination? I'm not sure how I'd terminate the signal in the 2530.

PVM-14L5
Image

PVM-2530
Image

I've already tried putting terminators on the A and B lines...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1427
headlesshobbs wrote:
Do any computer monitors support deinterlacing and if so what do I have to look for?

I'm going to say generally no. PC monitors, especially 4K ones, are going to be expecting a progressive signal from a PC.

As for what might actually do deinterlacing, I have a Dell U2410, but it might only do it over its composite and component inputs, and it's a 1920x1200 panel, so not 4K. I don't think it'll do RGBS (Ultimarc PS2/PS3 cable with the built-in sync stripper should work fine), but, even if it does, I'm not convinced it'll do deinterlacing over its VGA input.

You might want to use a secondary video processor, like a DSC 301 HD, to do deinterlacing and/or scaling for you.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2018
Posts: 163
Location: Northern California
HDgaming42 wrote:
I can probably get away with not buying another matrix switch if I make use of loop-outs on my monitors--but there's a problem.

I want to put the signal into a PVM-14L5, and then loop that out to a PVM-2530.


I had this same problem trying to chain my 20L5 and a 2530. I couldn't figure it out and spent $20 on an Extron rgbhv splitter. Smaller than an extra matrix switch to be sure but still extra hardware.

I hope you find a solution.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2018
Posts: 34
Location: Spain
I'm having some problems with an OSSC and a CMVS I picked up. It has a 1.5K resistor in the sync line from inside the console, but it uses a Genesis 2 style output connector. I picked up a RGC Genesis 2 cable and it worked on a TV but the image was too bright. I brought it to the guy who modded it and he put a 2K pot in the cable so I could dial in the resistance for my TV.

With this I finally made it work on the OSSC (although it won't work with my Hydra switch in between), but I can see a sort of diagonal interference: https://youtu.be/vnTlXzlx6XE

Could it be caused by the sync line? Or is it just regular interference from the internal RGB cables? I though about removing the 1.5K resistance inside the console and sticking to the 470ohm resistance which comes with the Genesis 2 RGC cable, but i'm not sure if that is the correct resistance for an MVS sync line.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 457
There are a lot of variables when it comes to CMVS mods. Theoretically if you are tapping the sync output (i.e. 5V TTL), you should only need a single 470R inline to get approximately correct sync levels. If the picture is too bright, that is not sync related but rather the RGB lines also need resistors (around 150 ohm works okay).

However, none of this is really ideal. It is much better to run the RGBS signals into a proper video amplifier circuit, something like this.

The interference looks power related to me.. try an alternative PSU if you have something available.

All that being said, it is very difficult to give any advice on unseen mod work, so I am having to make a lot of assumptions here that may be way off base.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:58 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2018
Posts: 34
Location: Spain
Thanks for the info! Right now I'm using a Sega Mega Drive adaptor, but I've also tried a cheap 2A 9V PSU I had laying around (which I doubt it actually provides 2A) and the same interference seems to happen. I've purchased a Triad which I've seen recommended by FirebrandX to see if it's the issue. I'm using it with a NeoSD BTW, so I guess it might draw more power than a regular cart.

As for RGB bypass I'm sure it looks phenomenal, but I'd have to buy a good soldering iron first. I'll try swapping out the resistor though.

I've taken a look at the mod and I noticed that for some reason resistor R38 was removed:

Image

Should I restore it? Here are some more photos of the mod, although I found it hard to take good pics with my lense:

https://i.imgur.com/woM5AQg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DsoK0Kg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wy6v0Bl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LF0ajvI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/z6mEm4d.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8h73RdP.jpg


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:29 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 457
Okay I'm not an expert on MVS mods by any means, so take anything I say with a pinch of salt (and anyone else more experienced is welcome to pitch in/correct me here):

R38 I think is audio related, and it looks like it was moved deliberately.. if you are not having audio issues I wouldn't mess with it for now.

The mod work is not all that clean generally, it is quite difficult to tell what is going on (there are a lot of wires for controller input so somewhat understandable. Still there are neater places to tap signals than straight from the Jamma connector.)

I am not sure why a 1.5k resistor would be needed for sync. 470 should be enough.. what does your SCART cable now contain? 470+2K pot? Or just a 2K pot? I think you should be aiming for 470 total resistance on the line from the jamma pin to the SCART head, and I wouldn't rely on a pot for that. The pot can probably turned down to very low resistance though if necessary, so 470+pot should be okay.. but if the sync is causing interference it may get worse if the resistance on the line is at the SCART end and not the source.

I can't see any resistors on the RGB lines, this is probably why your picture is too bright. I guess alongside a mega drive cable you would want an additional 75 ohm to bring the brightness down.

Looks like all of the video signals are fed into a black cable which I assume goes to the DIN connector, that cable doesn't seem well shielded so there may be coupling there causing your interference.

Your board looks to be a MV-1FZ, so if you want to look for more info about pinouts etc. include that in your search for more relevant results.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:57 am 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2018
Posts: 34
Location: Spain
Yes the mod is a bit of a mess. I also had to remove a shit-ton of glue... It's the same guy who did my NESRGB install which was actually done quite nicely.

The mod will do for now. Once I get a good soldering iron or station I'll try to rework it and install the RGB board. Might as well install the stereo sound board and remove the two separate pots for the L and R channel which it has now.

Thanks again for the info.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:51 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2273
nmalinoski wrote:
headlesshobbs wrote:
Do any computer monitors support deinterlacing and if so what do I have to look for?

I'm going to say generally no. PC monitors, especially 4K ones, are going to be expecting a progressive signal from a PC.

Lots of PC monitors have HDMI inputs to connect non-PC devices. I think HDMI inputs have to support 480i?

Though even if that's the case, I wouldn't count on monitors doing deinterlacing well and adding really obscure criteria to your monitor purchase choice is going to hurt you a lot more than getting a separate deinterlacing box.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:58 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Canada
Gara wrote:
HDgaming42 wrote:
I can probably get away with not buying another matrix switch if I make use of loop-outs on my monitors--but there's a problem.

I want to put the signal into a PVM-14L5, and then loop that out to a PVM-2530.


I had this same problem trying to chain my 20L5 and a 2530. I couldn't figure it out and spent $20 on an Extron rgbhv splitter. Smaller than an extra matrix switch to be sure but still extra hardware.

I hope you find a solution.


Interesting. Which model did you buy? I have an extron DA6, but it doesn't work correctly. Initially I thought maybe it didn't support 15kHz, but it's right there in the specs. I must have got a bad unit. Would be open to buying a model # you can confirm works for this purpose. :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:07 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Canada
HDgaming42 wrote:
Gara wrote:
HDgaming42 wrote:
I can probably get away with not buying another matrix switch if I make use of loop-outs on my monitors--but there's a problem.

I want to put the signal into a PVM-14L5, and then loop that out to a PVM-2530.


I had this same problem trying to chain my 20L5 and a 2530. I couldn't figure it out and spent $20 on an Extron rgbhv splitter. Smaller than an extra matrix switch to be sure but still extra hardware.

I hope you find a solution.


Interesting. Which model did you buy? I have an extron DA6, but it doesn't work correctly. Initially I thought maybe it didn't support 15kHz, but it's right there in the specs. I must have got a bad unit. Would be open to buying a model # you can confirm works for this purpose. :)


OMG, I think I've solved it! It seems the model I bought can OUTPUT RGBS, yet it can only take in RGBHV or RGsB or RsGsBs. In order to INPUT RGBS I would have needed to buy the YUV A version of the unit. How...intuitive.

Can someone confirm I'm reading this correctly?

Spoiler: show
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:19 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1427
HDgaming42 wrote:
OMG, I think I've solved it! It seems the model I bought can OUTPUT RGBS, yet it can only take in RGBHV or RGsB or RsGsBs. In order to INPUT RGBS I would have needed to buy the YUV A version of the unit. How...intuitive.

Can someone confirm I'm reading this correctly?

[snip]

You're reading it correctly, but I think it's wrong. Looking at the manual here (not the setup guide), that graphic (page QS-1) has "DA2 / 4 / 6 RGBHV" labeling on the first three, and the last, the grey-shaded one, is labeled DA6 YUV A; meaning, if you have the RGBHV version, you can connect and use all of RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, RsGsBs, and YPbPr; just wire it as shown.

Also take a closer look at the grey-shaded box in the copy you attached; that BNC layout is different to the RGBHV one. Just go by whichever layout matches yours.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:24 am 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Canada
nmalinoski wrote:
HDgaming42 wrote:
OMG, I think I've solved it! It seems the model I bought can OUTPUT RGBS, yet it can only take in RGBHV or RGsB or RsGsBs. In order to INPUT RGBS I would have needed to buy the YUV A version of the unit. How...intuitive.

Can someone confirm I'm reading this correctly?

[snip]

You're reading it correctly, but I think it's wrong. Looking at the manual here (not the setup guide), that graphic (page QS-1) has "DA2 / 4 / 6 RGBHV" labeling on the first three, and the last, the grey-shaded one, is labeled DA6 YUV A; meaning, if you have the RGBHV version, you can connect and use all of RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, RsGsBs, and YPbPr; just wire it as shown.

Also take a closer look at the grey-shaded box in the copy you attached; that BNC layout is different to the RGBHV one. Just go by whichever layout matches yours.


I'd find it very odd if RGBS isn't accepted. Strange that the two manuals aren't in agreement though--maybe I'll shoot an email to extron to tell them about the discrepancy.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 457
In my experience Extron devices can be quite picky about sync, not sure about this one but they often need TTL level CSYNC. If you're having issues I would check that your sync is correct first.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 1168
General capacitor replacement questions:

If swapping ceramics to poly caps (in audio circuits) do I just need to maintain (or increase) the capacitance?

Are capacitors directional?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:40 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1427
Einzelherz wrote:
General capacitor replacement questions:

If swapping ceramics to poly caps (in audio circuits) do I just need to maintain (or increase) the capacitance?

Are capacitors directional?

Caps are directional. Generally speaking (not specific to materials or application), I believe you want to match on capacitance, and you need to match or exceed voltage rating.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 457
Some caps are directional, some aren't. Polypropylene caps and ceramics aren't really directional, though some will have markings on them indicating which pole is the outer foil, which is better connected toward ground.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7165 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 219, 220, 221, 222, 223, 224, 225 ... 239  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bobrocks95, Google [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group