Hori shmup characteristics I don't like.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

I'd like to see a hori where you can turn around at any time ala Defender, only with forced scrolling. After all, these ships obviously have reverse thrusters, so why shouldn't they be able to turn around and fire at the enemy? You see this in Darius sometimes, but it' automatic, not manually controlled.

That's Blood Money. C64 version was pretty rad, I remember beating it. Amiga vers. was hard as hell though.

[Shatterhand]

There's also one game on the NES that does that.

But I ALWAYS forget its name. You don't control a ship though.

[Ed Oscuro]

On the subject of Shmups you can turn around in: Let's not forget the Battle Mania games!

There's also one game on the NES that does that.

Hmm, I recall Sammy (I think, I'll check it out later) had a Forgotten Worlds-alike on the NES. Your character didn't rotate, but you could rotate two options in and out with the B button or something. Pretty cool game.

Also, on the subject of cramped corridors in horizontal games: Yeah, it's definitely more common there, but Major Stryker immediately jumps to mind as a vert that gets cramped.

[Ghegs]

There's also one game on the NES that does that.

Hmm, I recall Sammy (I think, I'll check it out later) had a Forgotten Worlds-alike on the NES. Your character didn't rotate, but you could rotate two options in and out with the B button or something. Pretty cool game.

That would most likely be S.C.A.T aka. Final Mission. Jolly good fun, I'm a big fan of the jetpack trilogy and this one is like a cousin.

[captain ahar]

while you don't "turn around", Hot-B represented with Over Horizon, and Steel Empire, and their respective back firing capabilities.

[Ed Oscuro]

There's also one game on the NES that does that.

Hmm, I recall Sammy (I think, I'll check it out later) had a Forgotten Worlds-alike on the NES. Your character didn't rotate, but you could rotate two options in and out with the B button or something. Pretty cool game.

That would most likely be S.C.A.T aka. Final Mission. Jolly good fun, I'm a big fan of the jetpack trilogy and this one is like a cousin.

Woohoo! 110% correct. I see why I thought the game reminded me of another - I recently replayed it a wee bit when looking for the Japanese FDS image for Jackal (nice game). Not Battle Rangers, which I was originally thinking of...man it's a happening place up here inbetween my ears.

while you don't "turn around", Hot-B represented with Over Horizon, and Steel Empire, and their respective back firing capabilities.

Hmm, isn't Darwin (um, whichever version?) another game with back firing capabilities? I didn't even realize Steel Empire had that, which is cool.

[it290]

Funny that most of these 'turn-around' games are flying character / jetpack games. I guess jetpacks are more maneuverable than ships.

Trouble Shooter is pretty cool, but the issue I have with it is that your characters are just too freakin' large.. makes the game a bit frustrating in my opinion.

BTW, speaking of maneuverability and obstacles, does anyone here enjoy Thrust-type games? I consider them shooters, although of a different sort. I think I'm one of 10 people in the world that enjoyed Subterrania on Genesis, and there was a PD one on the Amiga -- can't remember the name, but it had you piloting an X-Wing and taking down AT-ATs and such -- that was really awesome.

[Ed Oscuro]

Trouble Shooter is pretty cool, but the issue I have with it is that your characters are just too freakin' large.. makes the game a bit frustrating in my opinion.

Obstacle crush (or impact? OMG MOVING 10 MILES PER HOUR GONNA DIEEEE) is a huge problem for me. You're moving along happily, trying to collect heath bars, and suddenly, your shoelace is stuck on a lampost. Then you die.

[Shocky]

Funny that most of these 'turn-around' games are flying character / jetpack games. I guess jetpacks are more maneuverable than ships.

BTW, speaking of maneuverability and obstacles, does anyone here enjoy Thrust-type games? I consider them shooters, although of a different sort.

Well.. Jetpacks fly like 10 km/h, space ships zoom across the galaxy at lightning speed, blasting away evil empires. I would think it's easier to do a u-turn with a jetpack =) Of course sometimes the ships have to fly in atmospheres or close to giant warships, then they may slow down enough to turn around. Uridium would be the classic example.

Thrust-type games are lovely. The more players, the sweeter. The best I can remember was Gravity Force II on the Amiga. OIDS on the Atari ST was a kind of let-down after all the hype. Zarathrusta (Amiga) was beautiful and fun too. Hasn't anyone made this kind of stuff lately?

One of mankinds greatest ideas was to build a huge spacebattleground into the Internet, where hordes of pilots could shoot at eachother while navigating thrust-style. It was called X-Pilot http://www.xpilot.org, but somehow it still managed to suck: you had to memorize a million keyboard commands and the graphics were too big, there was no room for fun or proper strategy.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm actually no fan of gravity games or caveflyers in general - certainly not to the degree that I am of horizontal shmups. Maybe bad memories of always getting sucked into the sun when playing Space War, who knows? Now, Jetpack on the PC (Puzzle game) - that was great.

[maco]

War of Aero is a vertical shooter that’s horizontal like.
It’s got obstacles/terrain to avoid, backward firing ability with a press of the B button, and pressing A + B will change the speed/size of ship.
It even has some downward scrolling sections and the much loved brain enhancing dead ends.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

War Of Aero seems like a bizarre hacked version of Image Fight. Does anyone know the story behind this games development?

[Andi]

I'm actually no fan of gravity games or caveflyers in general - certainly not to the degree that I am of horizontal shmups. Maybe bad memories of always getting sucked into the sun when playing Space War, who knows? Now, Jetpack on the PC (Puzzle game) - that was great.

Jetpack was magical, deviously designed on the later levels too.

Cave flyers can be fun. There are hundreds (freeware and shareware) of deathmatch style ones on the PC, many of them seem to be made in Finland. Tappo 2 comes to mind as one of the better cave flyers but I haven't kept up with the PC freeware scene so there are probably many better ones.

Subterrania (for the Genesis) is the only console one I'm familiar with. It's pretty good fun, although mission based instead of just deathmatches.

To clarify: Cave flyers refer to 2D 360 degree flying games that take place in confined spaces and have a force of gravity that pulls players toward the bottom of the level.

[ccovell]

Gravitar (arcade) and Solar Jetman (NES,C64, but I actually own the NES one) are my favourite "cave flyers". Solar Jetman is actually really relaxing in a weird, frantic sort of way. Great game.

[BulletMagnet]

To clarify: Cave flyers refer to 2D 360 degree flying games that take place in confined spaces and have a force of gravity that pulls players toward the bottom of the level.

Hmmm...do I sense another glossary entry?

[it290]

Thrust games, not cave flyers!

[Macaw]

War Of Aero seems like a bizarre hacked version of Image Fight. Does anyone know the story behind this games development?

Its an original game that is heavily inspired by image fight, and judging from the company name it seems as if its a taiwanese or chinese developed game.

Its also one of the most nightmarishly difficult shooters of all time. Aside from other crazy stuff like last bosses in cave games on the 2nd loop and stuff like that, War of Aero ranks right up there in the difficulty, and because it has r-type's checkpoint system and the fact you lose all your weapons after dying, you need to be a supreme shooter expert just to finish the game even if you are credit feeding.

[Bydobasher]

It's not often I come across a shmup I've never heard of, much less a vert of the R-Type school.

Just now I downloaded War of Aero and promptly died on the first stage. I saw enough of it though to realize that it's to Image Fight was Mad Shark is to Raiden or what Rezon is to R-Type. Doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable though. I'm looking forward to putting some time into it when I get back from work today.

[zaphod]

R-type uses the zaxxon school of hitbox design as far as landscapes.
If you can shoot thru it, you can move thru it. the hitbox is lined up with, and exactly as wide as, your normal shot. thre's about that much clearance on the front and back of the ship as well. I've never sworn at the colision detection in R-Type. EVER.

I've NEVER had issues with the hitbox on r-type.

[FRO]

The Gradius and R-type games pretty much invented the whole 'cramped' style of playing, where memorization is required to get through the stages as there are so many times you will die from a terrain obstacle or somthing. With the exception of these 2 franchises most other hori's more or less just play like vert's.

And in many Cave and Psikyo games you're doomed if you don't memorise the bullet patterns - which is much harder than remembering key bits of scenery.

Beat me to the punch

I was going to say the same thing - the difference is that many horis are memorization/twitch based play, whereas many newer verts are manic and/or require memorization of bullet patterns rather than locations or enemy placement, etc. The main thing is, it's memorization either way - perhaps your brain is wired to play bullet-pattern-laiden verts & is not as adept at scenery-filled-enemies-firing-from-the-back horis. I know some people have difficulty w/ some game types just by default. I mean, I suck at FPS games, but I'm good at stuff like 3rd person, behind-the-back shooters like Syphon Filter.

[Macaw]

It's not often I come across a shmup I've never heard of, much less a vert of the R-Type school.

Just now I downloaded War of Aero and promptly died on the first stage. I saw enough of it though to realize that it's to Image Fight was Mad Shark is to Raiden or what Rezon is to R-Type. Doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable though. I'm looking forward to putting some time into it when I get back from work today.

just wait till you get to stage 4 the first 3 stages despite being hard in their own right are peices of cake compared to the carnage that begins later on. The end of stage 4 where the game starts scrolling backwards while you need to navigate through ultra small caverns while having heaps of raiden style fast bullets being shot at you is some of the most insane stuff i've ever seen in a shooter.

I'm actualy makin a ST for this game at the moment hopefully it causes some more people to notice the awesomeness of the game.

[Bydobasher]

Yikes!

Brutally, horribly, excruciatingly difficult game. Its developers were clearly "inspired" by both Image Fight and Image Fight 2, but they've come up with something tougher than the two of them put together!

I was having trouble with the third boss, but I was intrigued enough to want to see the whole thing as soon as possible, so I drafted a friend and we blasted our way to the end together.

The fourth stage is crazy, as you say. Lots of shots, very little room to manoeuvre, backwards scrolling. Stage five scrolls frighteningly fast -- actually several of the later stages move at a good clip, not leaving you much time to react -- while the sixth stage reminds me of Image Fight's Penalty Area. Shoot, I can't remember the seventh stage right now, but the last level is horribly confined and the final form of the last boss is madness, what with its reflecting shots bouncing all over the place, the various obstacles, and the scrolling in all directions.

Have you actually beaten this merciless beast on your own???

[Macaw]

Well much like you did I also finished the game in 2 player mode. However in 1 player mode it is frikkin impossible because of the R-type checkpoint system that sends you back everytime you die.

Trying to acheive a 1cc even though I have all the stages memorized is still seemingly impossible. A superplay DVD of this game would be awesome.

[Ganelon]

So is this a hack or an actual independent game? I love the Image Fight series but I'd rather not be playing something that just copied the sprites and code.

[gameoverDude]

War Of Aero seems like a bizarre hacked version of Image Fight. Does anyone know the story behind this games development?

Its an original game that is heavily inspired by image fight, and judging from the company name it seems as if its a taiwanese or chinese developed game.

Its also one of the most nightmarishly difficult shooters of all time. Aside from other crazy stuff like last bosses in cave games on the 2nd loop and stuff like that, War of Aero ranks right up there in the difficulty, and because it has r-type's checkpoint system and the fact you lose all your weapons after dying, you need to be a supreme shooter expert just to finish the game even if you are credit feeding.

This also reminds me of Truxton II, only without the collisible backgrounds.

Truxton II has that same checkpoint system (1P only). Unfortunately, you cannot hoard some power items for your next life after maxing out like the first Truxton allowed. If you lose a ship, the game may well be over for you depending on where you restart- never mind the extends you get at 70000 and every 200000 afterward. Thank goodness modern shooters in general have done away with checkpoints. Border Down's CP system I actually don't mind- especially when you can sometimes exploit it for more points with a well timed suicide.

Ganelon- War of Aero is not a hack of Image Fight IIRC. It's on Seta 16-bit hardware rather than the Irem M72. It's just someone else's "tribute" to Image Fight.

[dai jou bu]

Border Down's CP system I actually don't mind- especially when you can sometimes exploit it for more points with a well timed suicide.

Intentional suicides is something that is both awkward and something I try to avoid (hey, let's intentionally trash this $213897640 craft for no reason other than to increase some arbitrary number that bears value only outside of the context of the game's universe!). I could understand if suiciding did substanstial damage to whatever you crashed into, but all it does is tickle them. Even the cannon fodder have more durability than you do.

[Macaw]

Ganelon- War of Aero is not a hack of Image Fight IIRC. It's on Seta 16-bit hardware rather than the Irem M72. It's just someone else's "tribute" to Image Fight.

Indeed all of the games content is completely original, and its probably not as similar to Image Fight as we have made it sound, although that is certainly where it got its insiration from.

Its also got an awesome soundtrack.

[Shocky]

Intentional suicides is something that is both awkward and something I try to avoid (hey, let's intentionally trash this $213897640 craft for no reason other than to increase some arbitrary number that bears value only outside of the context of the game's universe!). I could understand if suiciding did substanstial damage to whatever you crashed into, but all it does is tickle them. Even the cannon fodder have more durability than you do.

Well, Border Down is one of the very few games where the suicide could be approved, because it works as a means to select route, but other than that I'm not going to start milking points that desperately. Anyway, I think the goal should be something different than points. 1cc is a quite respectable goal, but the best goal for me is to just complete a game, no matter if it took a thousand credits. Of course this only works with games where you get thrown back to a checkpoint/level start when you die/time runs out, or in an arcade hall with limited cash.

Still, on some level I kind of admire the pure madness and persistence of those who are ready to go to such extremes in their desperate quest for a few more points. If there really was a competition or world championship on some game, then this would make more sense.

[Ganelon]

Thanks, guys. I'm looking forward to check out the game then.

[louisg]

Mr. Heli/Battle Chopper is pretty cool, and it lets you turn around Although, it's a semi-push scroller. You think this might have influenced Blood Money at all?

BTW, you all owe it to yourselves to check out the intro to Blood Money on the Amiga version

(the only unanswered question is...)