Check out my Mame machine gun with full auto recoil

[Classicgamer]

I just finished restoring this old arcade gun from an LA Machine Guns (or Gunblade) cab and converting it to work with mame. It's awesome!



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6u8DKqdfMM

These guns used a 24v gear motor for the full auto recoil mechanism instead of a solenoid which has several advantages when used with mame. You can play for hours with continuous recoil on games like T2 and Alien 3 without worrying about burning up your solenoid. This a huge benefit given that I destroyed my Ultimarc recoil solenoid after 3 minutes of playing T2.

Also, it is far easier to make full auto recoil work. You just need a simple solid state relay. No custom circuits or mame hooker scripts etc. if you aren't an electronics or software expert, it's the way to go.

You can't really see in the video but the whole gun moves back and forth when you pull the trigger making it feel more like actual recoil instead of a sex toy. It's totally awesome.

This is what the recoil mechanism looks like outside the gun:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bEQRslwMDu8

This gun is going on an aluminum T-slot stand (on wheels) so I can use it with my arcade monitors but still be able to switch out the controls panel for none shooting games. I just wheel out the guns and wheel in a racing wheel control panel etc.

[Taiyaki]

This is made of win. Oh I didn't realize you tested on a laptop. So this does use a light bar right? Does it feel more accurate than the ultimarcs? I hear the ultimarc feels a bit like a mouse gun if that makes any sense lol.

[Classicgamer]

The LA Machine Guns / Gunblade guns are directional like T2, Rev X, Op Thunderbolt etc. They use pots to move the crosshairs (which I connected to an Apac). This type of gun works on any screen and does not need sensors. It is very easy to set up.

You calibrate devices connected to an Apac in the Windows hardware menu. You click "calibrate" with the gun in the position it will be used and then aim all around the edge of the screen. If done right, it's far more accurate and consistent than my Aimtrak.

All the other adjustments needed are in mame. Once you adjust the X / Y sensitivity of analog controls, the crosshairs move as fast as I can move the gun. It doesn't trail like my Aimtrak.

The main reason the Aimtrak feels like a mouse is the lack of recoil and the cheap thin plastic. Their recoil kit solves part of that problem but you can't use them for full auto games which makes them super double suck.

Aside from accuracy issues, my biggest issue with my Aimtrak is that it cost a lot of money and it's not worth what I paid. My recommendation for any arcade gun game fans is to use that same money to pick up a real arcade directional gun plus a $15 Guncon 2. This allows you to play 90%+ of pre-flatscreen arcade gun games the way god intended (or was it Namco?).

[Taiyaki]

You're an amazing modder. Yeah I can tell just by looking at youtube videos that the aimtrak seems expensive for what it does. The idea of having a real arcade directional gun work on mame is just insanely cool.

[Classicgamer]

I'm not very good at electronics projects either. This one is not particularly difficult once I replaced some of the broken parts though. The Ultimarc Apac is a good product and relatively easy to hook up.

All arcade directional guns move with two pots (X and Y) and each pot connects directly to the screw terminals on the Apac with 3 wires. Then, there are two wires to connect for each button including the trigger. That's it. No soldering needed.

To make the recoil work with LA Machine Guns or Gunblade guns, you just need to connect a solid state relay to the trigger and the other end to the motor just above the diode box. This is a small square white plastic box on the motor power cable containing a diode. You cut off the diode and connect the motor power cable above it to your own 24v PSU.

Then, pulling the trigger activates the dc / dc relay and turns on the motor.

If you choose a directional gun with a solenoid like the Operation Thunderbolt / Steel Gunner 2 gun, getting full auto recoil is a lot more complicated (if you want it to be reliable).

I have tried a lot of full auto solenoid solutions at this point and the absolute best method is to use mamehooker (free software) and an Ultimarc PAC drive. The PAC drive is a USB device that allows outputs from mame such as lights, force feedback motors and solenoids etc. Mamehooker is software that allows you to control the PAC drive outputs from mame with scripts.

In theory, you can use mame hooker to set up the correct recoil for each game. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to use it. It's the least intuitive piece of software since the MS Dos era. If I ever figure out how to hook up the recoil on my Op Thunderbolt gun, I will share the info....

I doubt I ever will though. Nobody alive knows how to use it and the instructions on their website are so poor that they actually reduced my level of understanding.

[lettuce]

Thats cool as fuck, bit massive thought isnt it lol. Think id have to get the T2 uzi guns

[Classicgamer]

Thats cool as fuck, bit massive thought isnt it lol. Think id have to get the T2 uzi guns

It is a little larger (and a lot heavier) than I was expecting but that is an advantage when you want to fit a decent size recoil motor inside.

I also have a T2 gun and an Operation Thunderbolt gun. Both are smaller (but still fairly heavy) but the main issue is that they use a solenoid for recoil which means you'll need extra hardware to make it work.

Basically, making full auto recoil work with solenoid guns in mame is very difficult if you aren't an electronics or software expert. It's the primary cause of male pattern baldness.

I tried to follow someone's 555 timer circuit and could only make it activate the solenoid once and then stay on. I tried buying a ready-made 555 timer relay circuit off eBay and managed to get some sort of full auto recoil to work for 3 minutes (then the magic smoke escaped.... never to work again). I tried an Arcade Guns Aimforce dongle but it only works with an Aimtrak and it melted my Aimtrak... stay away from Arcade Guns. They are bad people deliberately selling a product that they know doesn't work.

Then I tried using the circuit from a PS2 recoil gun and the results sucked as all off the shelf home recoil guns suck.

A few weeks ago I bought a PAC drive and downloaded mame hooker to run the solenoids. I have yet to figure out how to make it work in any way shape or form though. If you figure it out first, please let us know how....

[Taiyaki]

I'm at the point where if I can get any kind of light gun to work on mame I'd be happy, getting recoil and the modding and all is something I'd be very interested in doing as well though. Your project is amazing, you did a lot of research to get to this result. Very very cool.

[Classicgamer]

I'm at the point where if I can get any kind of light gun to work on mame I'd be happy, getting recoil and the modding and all is something I'd be very interested in doing as well though. Your project is amazing, you did a lot of research to get to this result. Very very cool.

Yup... far too much research... I get a little obsessed with playing games exactly as they were meant to be played. I.e. Fixed guns for fixed gun games and real light guns for light gun games etc... and recoil on games that had recoil.... The project is often more fun than playing the games.

I hate poor quality cheap-feeling peripherals made for the home market and I espiecially hate it when stores claim they are "arcade quality". I'd rather not play at all than play with an Aimtrak....

[Taiyaki]

Yeah I agree, that's why I haven't played any light gun games on Mame, I didn't have any good light gun to work with. How about games like Lucky and Wild, I guess you need the wheel too?

[Classicgamer]

Yeah I agree, that's why I haven't played any light gun games on Mame, I didn't have any good light gun to work with. How about games like Lucky and Wild, I guess you need the wheel too?

Lucky and Wild used a directional gun so it would work well with any of my fixed guns. I have a Logitech wheel with force feedback and I keep meaning to try them together for Lucky and Wild. I used to love that game.

As far as I know, it's the only arcade that used both a wheel and a gun at the same time.

Next project is to get it working with the PS3 and Wii. They both have lots of shooting games with on-screen crosshairs that can be played with an analog joystick.

[Taiyaki]

Yeah Lucky and Wild is great and undoubtedly the hardest of those light gun games to get working accurately, but if you have a wheel sounds like you can pull this off. ^^

[Classicgamer]

Yeah Lucky and Wild is great and undoubtedly the hardest of those light gun games to get working accurately, but if you have a wheel sounds like you can pull this off. ^^

It's not that hard with a wheel and an Apac. It's just annoying to set up as it's the only game to use both peripherals so it rarely feels worth it.

Plus, if I feel like shooting, it is almost always more tempting to switch on the PS2. Nothing beat the Time Crisis games.

[Taiyaki]

I agree. PS2 is the best home console for light gun games. It had some greatly original ones too like Resident Evil Dead Aim.

[Syntax]

This gun doesn't seem to have full auto.

From what I read the motor inside the gun is either geared or cammed and simply running the motor causes the feedback.

But the actual in game shots would just be single fire still unless you got a machine gun in game ect..

[Classicgamer]

This gun doesn't seem to have full auto.

From what I read the motor inside the gun is either geared or cammed and simply running the motor causes the feedback.

But the actual in game shots would just be single fire still unless you got a machine gun in game ect..

LA machine guns is most definitely a full auto game and this gun definately has full auto recoil. The motor is attached to a pair of linear slides which it uses to move back a forward. That actual mechanism is somewhat similar to Time Crisis guns except driven by a motor and pulleys instead of a solenoid.

A lot of full auto arcade games use a motor for recoil. For example, Crisis Zone, Raizing storm, operation Wolf, Operation Thunder Hurricane, Teraburst etc all use motors.

[Classicgamer]

Here is another full auto recoil mechanism I picked up off eBay. It's from a Konami Teraburst gun:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VTLLtMYO9ek

It is actually one of the best designs I have seen to date. It is incredibly quiet while providing a considerable recoil feeling with very little power used or heat generated. Even running off a battery it produces more recoil force than any of the PS2 recoil guns I have tried.

I plan to use it in a PS2 Crisis Zone / TC3 gun once I have chosen a suitable shell.

The more research I do, the more I think it is best to use a motor for full auto recoil games and a solenoid for semi auto. Most solenoids are not designed for continuous use and the ones that are pack far less force. This is why TC2 guns are not "compatible" with TC3.

It's probably why there are so many broken arcade solenoid guns on eBay and so few working ones. Happ recently added a "not compatible with TC3" warning on their solenoid guns.

[Battlesmurf]

Going down this rabbit hole myself. How are the state of affairs with making stuff like this work in Mame nowadays? I've always gone towards original hardware, so this will be a journey for me too.