Saturn vs N64 discussion on gfaqs

[Danny]

Both the Nintendo 64 and the Sega Saturn are great consoles but can you say either one of them are better than the other? Well no not really because it's all about personal opinion and comparing both consoles is like comparing a Bannana to and Apple really.

For example both systems have two of the greatest wreslting games of all time on them. The N64 has WcW vs NwO Revenge which is the best 3D wreslting game in my opinion (and yes I've played WWF No Mercy!) while the Sega Saturn has Fire Pro Wrestling S: 6 Men Scramble which is one of the best 2D wrestling games ever made after Fire Pro R on the PS2 of course.

Saying that both consoles have great "more than 2 player" multiplayer games as well which are completly differnt from one an other. The Saturn has Deathtank Zewi (YOU MUST PLAY THIS GAME!), Saturn Bomberman, Gaurdian Heroes, Sega Worldwide Soccer '97, Groove on Fight. While the N64 has games like Golden Eye, F-Zero X, Lylat Wars, Super Smash Brothers, Mario Party. (Please note I've not mentioned Bomberman 64 because it's quite frankly pants) As you can see these games are hugely differnt from one an other but at the same time are all "essental purchases" if you do so happen to own these consoles and have friends to play with.

It's really horses for courses, people can have their own opinion just don't exspect people to agree, a lesson that a lot of people in GameFAQ's forums could learn. Personaly I just perfer the Saturn over the N64 mainly because it has more Shmups and decent Fighting games on it but that does not mean that I think the N64 is a poor consoles because I do love that console to, just not as much as the Saturn...

[captain ahar]

just actually looked at the article for the first time, and while i am sure this is no revelation, there are some deeply stupid people on gamefaqs.

i loved the one where the guy is knocking on Powerslave like he's actually played it.

[Danny]

I would'nt knock powerslave if I were you... it has Deathtank on it! (quite possably the only reason why I still keep my copy of the game and Duke Nuke'em 3D!)

[captain ahar]

I wouldn't knock powerslave if I were you... it has Deathtank on it! (quite possably the only reason why I still keep my copy of the game and Duke Nuke'em 3D!)

actually i really liked it. that's what i was trying to say.

[Ganelon]

...you mentioned Groove-on-Fight. Do you actually play that with 2-3 other people? Come on now, the load times for each battle is 17 seconds! My friends already get bored when I play Neogeo Battle Coliseum with them.

[D]

This topic and that on GF is great and all, but the N64 sucks horses, we all know that come on man.
The battle is supposed to be between Saturn and PS1.
F-ZERO X is the only title I'd like to play. But that is just one racing game. What other non-cute racers are there on the N64? RR64 runs really choppy and was rushed. Not that the Saturn had that many, but more still, for 32/64 bit racing games PS1 all the way even though Sega Rally Saturn rocks! Manx TT is OK as well.

[BrianC]

And it's compatible with the Nights analog controller, something that could have been implemented on the PS1 version, but Sony just hadn't gotten the analog finished on time.

are you sure the analog compatibility is in all region-versions of the game?
PS1 Wipeout XL was about 2 years before the analog controller came out, so I doubt it would have been possible.

Wasn't Wipeout XL PSX compatible with the Negcon (sp?), though? I thought it controlled pretty good with digital, but I wouldn't mind getting my hands on that Negcon thing.

[PaCrappa]

This topic and that on GF is great and all, but the N64 sucks horses, we all know that come on man.

Who is we? The N64 is the only way to play Treasure's best work. Sin and Punishment and the proper version of Bangaioh are exclusives. Haven't sat down with Mischief Makers yet, but word is it's worth the time. The best RPG in history, Paper Mario is an exclusive. The best turn based strategy game ever made, Ogre Battle 64 is an exclusive. Starfox 64 ain't half bad, Pokemon Puzzle League is awesome, Mario Golf is still one of the best golf games ever (mini golf!), the Kirby game is sweet and the system has an exclusive Goemon title which is quite good. Very very worthwhile system. Especially because the hardware can be had for next to nothing and none of the good games should cost anyone over $50 at this point. The only big problem with the N64 is that people seem to only remember the schlock junk like Goldeneye, Mario 64, Perfect Dark, etc.

The Saturn is a great system and certainly one which offers a greater selection of awesome games than the N64. The thing about the Saturn is that 75% of the frequently mentioned "awesome games" are available in a better form for some other format. Why pay $100 for Zero 3 when the CPS-2 version is $100? Why pay $180 for RSG when the ST-V cart is $60? And so on. There are some totally dope exclusives like Deep Fear, Panzer Dragoon etc. But most of the games for that system are either the same mass market multiplatform junk (only the 3D graphics are ten steps worse than the competition's hardware displays them) and/or play much better on whatever arcade format they were originally released on.

They both have slight drawbacks (N64 moreso), but they're also both 110% worthwhile for anyone that actually enjoys games more than they enjoy trumpeting their petty system allegiances online like that's what makes them who they are.

Pa

[raiden]

yeah, Wipeout XL is Negcon compatible, and I think the first one is, too. The Negcon is a nice racing game controller, it´s just very limited in use because support was dropped pretty much after the Dual Shock came out. Iirc even Ridge Racer 4, a Namco game, doesn´t support the Negcon (a Namco controller) anymore, because Namco wanted to push the Jogcon controller released simultaneously with RR4.
The Saturn analog controller isn´t supported by many games either, but it has a K.O. criterium in the form of Nights, one of the greatest games of all time, only really playable with the analog controller.
What´s really bad about the Negcon is that it´s completely unsuitable for all games that play digitally. Some games don´t even recognize it, but even those that do just can´t be played with the Negcon. The Saturn 3d pad and Sony´s Dual Shock are a lot more versatile, so you don´t have to keep plugging and unplugging pads when using them.

[raiden]

The best RPG in history, Paper Mario is an exclusive.

you can´t seriously claim Paper Mario is supposed to be better than Valkyrie Profile and Panzer Dragoon Saga, can you?

The best turn based strategy game ever made, Ogre Battle 64 is an exclusive.

again - you really think this is better than Tactics Ogre (pre-GBA), Advanced World War or Langrisser 5?

Why pay $100 for Zero 3 when the CPS-2 version is $100?

very good question. Especially seeing the Saturn version requires a 4mb expansion, something I´m not willing to deal with any longer, because I need the Memory Card and don´t want to swap cartridges all the time, given the sloppy Saturn cartridge slot quality. I used to do this for Neo Geo ports, but now I´ve got an MVS and don´t see the need anymore.

Why pay $180 for RSG when the ST-V cart is $60?

excuse me, can you show me where I can get ST-V Radiant Silvergun for $60? I´ve never seen it for less than $150.

They both have slight drawbacks (N64 moreso), but they're also both 110% worthwhile for anyone that actually enjoys games more than they enjoy trumpeting their petty system allegiances online like that's what makes them who they are.

couldn´t agree more.

[Rob]

Were you guys joking by mentioning Pokemon Snap or should I actually bother playing that one?

comparing both consoles is like comparing a Bannana to and Apple really.

Bananas are clearly the best non-citrus fruit. Apples are like eating a chunk of sweetened sandpaper.

[cigsthecat]

Pear.

[PaCrappa]

Rob, I fucking LOVED Pokemon Snap.

you can´t seriously claim Paper Mario is supposed to be better than Valkyrie Profile and Panzer Dragoon Saga, can you?

Never played VP but I KNOW that Paper Mario kicks the shit outta Panzer Dragoon Saga. That is the ugliest, most poorly written crappiest RPG ever. They almost had some good ideas but failed miserably in their execution. Better luck next time to Sega. A sequel could be good.

again - you really think this is better than Tactics Ogre (pre-GBA), Advanced World War or Langrisser 5?

Sure I do. Never played Advance World War or Langrisser V. Langrisser V because I don't read Japanese. What is Advance World War?

excuse me, can you show me where I can get ST-V Radiant Silvergun for $60? I´ve never seen it for less than $150.

Excuse you, got mine for $40 about three years ago. Last time I looked (a year or more ago by mow) it was roughly $60ish. Sorry for not being up to speed with the current "value" of games I already got.

couldn´t agree more.

Then we tight

Pa

[Neon]

Why pay $100 for Zero 3 when the CPS-2 version is $100? Why pay $180 for RSG when the ST-V cart is $60?

Zero 3 - improved graphics, faster levels of turbo, new characters w/respective backgrounds. Supposedly some differences with dramatic battle, probably other stuff I'm missing. Throws/taunts have specific buttons, also I doubt the B-board has a pause feature (though it's worth owning for other reasons).

RSG - exclusive saturn mode, stage selects, soundtest, etc. To the point that I don't know why you'd get the STV cart, unless cost was a factor.

A few other better than arcade perfect ports for the format, or ports which at least offer something different. I like playing the Neo Geo fighters on it since the specials are mapped to one button, plus arranged soundtracks etc. Even Metal Slug which lost a shit ton of frames has the art galleries, level select, and all that. I could list a lot of other examples...People put lots of *worthwhile* extras into their ports back in the Saturn/PSX days and as such they're usually worth owning even if they're not 100%.

[professor ganson]

Were you guys joking by mentioning Pokemon Snap or should I actually bother playing that one?

Pokemon Snap may have been a fun distraction when it came out, but it is very far from classic and so probably not worth the time, imo. At least it's dirt cheap-- everyone bought this when it came out but few feel the need to hold on to it.

Bananas are clearly the best non-citrus fruit. Apples are like eating a chunk of sweetened sandpaper.

I would have agreed with this until I lived in upstate NY, where there were the most amazing apples-- so much flavor that the sweetness recedes into the background or makes the tartness manageable.

[PaCrappa]

Some people don't care about that stuff Neon. Some people just want the arcade game. Some people barely want that.

Those two are not my favorite games and barely worth owning on any format by my estimation. The "extras" don't make me like them any better. Loading times would make me like them alot less.

Pa

[PaCrappa]

But give me Ogre Battle Episodes VII & V before VI anyday.

Totally off topic here, but could anyone break down the episode order of the Ogre Battle games? Like what title is what episode I mean.

Thanks in advance,
PaCrappa

I tried to spin this post off into a new thread, but I phail at modding. - ZK

[Eps]

schlock junk like Goldeneye, Mario 64, Perfect Dark, etc.

SM64 and 'junk' do not belong in the same sentence.

[raiden]

Well, now we know why you don't like the disc mediums.

is there anybody out there in the universe who actually *likes* loading times?

so WHAT is interesting about Pokemon Snap? I have to say I´m scared away by the fact it features Pokemon already. Pokemon Puzzle League has great gameplay, but I´m going to exchange it for Tetris Attack (GBA) just to get rid of the Pokemon.

Panzer Dragoon Saga. That is the ugliest, most poorly written crappiest RPG ever. They almost had some good ideas but failed miserably in their execution.

you can call it over-ambitious, but it´s one of the rare examples where, as a player, at least you have the idea of taking part in the action. I just can´t stand it when RPG game designers treat me like an ape, capable of doing nothing but hitting a button occasionally to call up the next text window.
Oh, and you DEFINITELY should try Valkyrie Profile. It stands out from the crowd completely. Just look at the setting: you´re a death goddess, visiting people when they die, in order to recruit them for a great battle of the gods. It´s such an incredibly morbid setting, seeing all these people just before they die, and then talking to their ghosts after they died.

What is Advance World War?

it´s something like a sequel to Advanced Military Commander on MD/Genesis. WW2 setting, turn-based strategy, but with unparalleled depth. There are two separate maps for air and ground units, the former one being transparent, and you can zoom between both. Your troops gain experience when fighting, you have terrain influence, fog of war, troops can fortify themselves in suitable terrain, nearby generals or other troops influence battle performance, conquered cities are necessary to have supplies nearby, you can research different technologies and use them in battle, every battle´s outcome influences your situation on the next battlefield, lots of options to choose between different paths, troops can use different kind of ammunition depending on the target, there´s also multiplayer for up to 4 people, and the AI is just incredible. Forget all the cheap tricks that work in so many turn-based strategy games, you really need to come with something clever to stand a chance.

Bananas are boring. Hell, fruit in general is boring. It´s so... healthy. Let´s talk about meat instead.

[Danny]

...you mentioned Groove-on-Fight. Do you actually play that with 2-3 other people? Come on now, the load times for each battle is 17 seconds! My friends already get bored when I play Neogeo Battle Coliseum with them.

Yeah a few of my friends really like the old school 2D fighitng games. TBH though most of my friends are old computer (C64 and the like) users so they are used to long load times heh. (plus they get to drink while it loads... always good! )

I dunno some people these days, if they have to wait more than 10 seconds to play a game they throw a fit. Have they never played on a old tape based system before!

(Yes I know tech' has advanced since those times but seriously if a game is worth playing then it's worth waiting 15 seconds for a match!)

[Blade]

Seriously, more people need to know the glory that is Valkyrie Profile. Platform Puzzles, top notch music, excellent battle system, and then there's the saddest RPG story of all time encapsulated in this game. (By "sad" I mean depressingly morbid...not sad as in bad. It talks about death alot.)

[jp]

Never played VP but I KNOW that Paper Mario kicks the shit outta Panzer Dragoon Saga. That is the ugliest, most poorly written crappiest RPG ever. They almost had some good ideas but failed miserably in their execution. Better luck next time to Sega. A sequel could be good.


Pa

Just because it doesn't hold your hand as far as the story goes doesn't mean its poorly written. PDSaga is about reading the texts you come across, talking with the people, understanding the world Tomohiro Kondo created and eventually unknowingly making a decision that effects the fate of said world.

The first time I played through PDSaga the story let me down too(especially the ending since I didn't understand it, and I thought they were doing something cheesy). I played it tons more times (because as far as "fun" goes, it cannot be bested) and when I finally understood it, I realized it was probably one of the best written RPGs ever.

[Koa Zo]

...
The Saturn analog controller isn´t supported by many games either, but it has a K.O. criterium in the form of Nights, one of the greatest games of all time, only really playable with the analog controller.
...

Since someone else mentioned Daytona CCE, I've got to chime in here and add that the Saturn Analog controller worked splendidly with Daytona CCE.
Not to toot my own horn, but I kicked ass at Daytona USA in the arcade. There was quite a competitive group at my local arcade, and while I eventually was surpassed by a couple other guys, I was definately one of the top players around. Any time I'd travel and play a Daytona unit, I would end-up entering my initials for the top times for the Advanced and Expert tracks. The only exception was when I went to Playland in StateCollege PA - but I still ranked on the records.
I mention all this just to reiterate that Daytona CCE is the best home version of Daytona available. The Dreamcast version played like a completely different game, like Daytona 2000 or something.
Anyone who says Daytona CCE has altered physics or broken control probably played it with a digital pad.

[Stormwatch]

[Panzer Dragoon Saga] is the ugliest, most poorly written crappiest RPG ever. They almost had some good ideas but failed miserably in their execution. Better luck next time to Sega.

Frankly, I am at a loss for words to counter such absurdity.

[Neon]

schlock junk like Goldeneye, Mario 64, Perfect Dark, etc.

SM64 and 'junk' do not belong in the same sentence.

I don't see what the hype is either, really. Mario 64 was never that fun. But I tend to prefer single screen platformers.

Those two are not my favorite games and barely worth owning on any format by my estimation. The "extras" don't make me like them any better.

I agree they're not the best games, but it's kind of beside the point.

I hesitate to use the term 'extras' since a lot of them (in the case of SS/PS arcade ports) effect gameplay/overall enjoyment to such a high degree. More like 'added badassity factors' or 'this game was ported by ninjas.'

Have to agree with Ganelon about Groove on Fight. Long waits for sub-par gameplay. Vampire Savior for the win.

@ Koa Zo: Can you do that trick where you drive through the pit stop (beginner course) on the Saturn port? (standard daytona).

[BrianC]

Well, now we know why you don't like the disc mediums.

is there anybody out there in the universe who actually *likes* loading times?

so WHAT is interesting about Pokemon Snap? I have to say I´m scared away by the fact it features Pokemon already. Pokemon Puzzle League has great gameplay, but I´m going to exchange it for Tetris Attack (GBA) just to get rid of the Pokemon.

I understand that there is a lot of hatred going around for Pokemon, but I don't understand why someone would want an inferior game just becuase pokemon aren't in it. The GBA Tetris Attack/Puzzle League is just the previous GBA Panel de Pon (downloadable from the GCN Nintendo Puzzle Collection) with vs. CPU and two player modes added and no story mode or even any main characters at all like in most other versions. The GBC Tetris Attack is a decent port, but not one of the better ones. I don't get the point of getting a technically inferior game just becuase it doesn't have Pokemon. If you HAVE to get rid of the pokemon, at least get the Nintendo Puzzle Collection, which has a version of the N64 Pokemon Puzzle League without the pokemon.

Some of the Pokemon spinoffs are lame and they went with more of the same a bit too often, but I like the older RPG style and collecting of the RPG Pokemon games, especially G/S. I found collecting and trying to raise up Pokemon for the right battles to be pretty fun. I also like the GBC Pokemon Pinball and Pokemon Puzzle League. As for Pokemon Snap, I liked it, but I think it can get repetitive after a while. It's like an on rails shooter, but you are shooting with a camera (and trying to take good pictures) instead of a gun.

[Dale]

I,ve never played a Saturn in my life(Except the one time I played Panzer Dragoon in department store) but I will say that I love the 64 when you want a deverse array of localized multiplayer games theres nowhere else to look.

And PaCrappa definetly get Mischief Makers not treasures best work by any means but is very unique quility game.

Also to any Puzzle fans out there get Charlie Blast great game expecially with multiplayer.

[raiden]

I understand that there is a lot of hatred going around for Pokemon, but I don't understand why someone would want an inferior game just becuase pokemon aren't in it. The GBA Tetris Attack/Puzzle League is just the previous GBA Panel de Pon (downloadable from the GCN Nintendo Puzzle Collection) with vs. CPU and two player modes added and no story mode or even any main characters at all like in most other versions. The GBC Tetris Attack is a decent port, but not one of the better ones. I don't get the point of getting a technically inferior game just becuase it doesn't have Pokemon. If you HAVE to get rid of the pokemon, at least get the Nintendo Puzzle Collection, which has a version of the N64 Pokemon Puzzle League without the pokemon.

well, I wasn´t aware of these version differences, but now you told me, I´m going for Nintendo Puzzle Collection instead.

Since someone else mentioned Daytona CCE, I've got to chime in here and add that the Saturn Analog controller worked splendidly with Daytona CCE.

yeah, I´m looking forward to getting that game again, too. It was one of my key experiences regarding racing games.

I dunno some people these days, if they have to wait more than 10 seconds to play a game they throw a fit. Have they never played on a old tape based system before!

sure I have, but I was young and had all the time in the world. Nowadays, time is a lot more precious to me.

[Ganelon]

is there anybody out there in the universe who actually *likes* loading times?

so WHAT is interesting about Pokemon Snap?

Maybe not, but if the load times are minimal and the disc version has extras, yeah, I generally prefer extras over a few seconds of loading, esp. if the loading is infrequent.

And Pokemon Snap is fun in a gimmicky way. Collect the Pokemon by shooting them with a camera on a fixed route. Cause stuff to happen and then nail them with the most interesting shot you can. Sorta addictive although I don't particularly like games with gameplay completely involving a gimmick (except Pac-Man 2).

[Marc]

...
The Saturn analog controller isn´t supported by many games either, but it has a K.O. criterium in the form of Nights, one of the greatest games of all time, only really playable with the analog controller.
...

Since someone else mentioned Daytona CCE, I've got to chime in here and add that the Saturn Analog controller worked splendidly with Daytona CCE.
Not to toot my own horn, but I kicked ass at Daytona USA in the arcade. There was quite a competitive group at my local arcade, and while I eventually was surpassed by a couple other guys, I was definately one of the top players around. Any time I'd travel and play a Daytona unit, I would end-up entering my initials for the top times for the Advanced and Expert tracks. The only exception was when I went to Playland in StateCollege PA - but I still ranked on the records.
I mention all this just to reiterate that Daytona CCE is the best home version of Daytona available. The Dreamcast version played like a completely different game, like Daytona 2000 or something.
Anyone who says Daytona CCE has altered physics or broken control probably played it with a digital pad.

Dude, Daytona CCE played NOTHING like the arcade version... best home version? Take the DC version and simply turn the sensitivity down to its lowest setting. Or use the DC wheel. A better than perfect conversion right there.