Saturn vs N64 discussion on gfaqs

[Arvandor]

If anyone with a gfaqs account wants to have a field day with some fanboys, go here http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmes ... c=27374213

I'd almost suggest not provoking them any further, but I thought it might be amusing to see what some of you would have to say on the subject.

[Neon]

In terms of good games, it's obviously no contest for SS (I think only Rob will disagree) but really, why do we have to think of things in terms of consoles?

OMG d00d best game on the Saturn.

[Skyline]

This is why I never post there.

[jp]

I never realized that the N64 had fanboys...


... and apparently they're more retarded than...


... well, nevermind, don't want this to turn into a 5 page war on me.



Edit:
"It could have done more than "handle" it, it could have actually given Nights real replay value by including some type of splitscreen support, like Rare did with Conker and Donkey Kong. "

I don't think this person ever played NiGHTS...
I mean, I don't recall vs. that well myself since I've only played it... mmm... maybe 5 times in my life. But I believe the 2P NIGHTS vs. Reala mode WAS split-screen...

[Limbrooke]

Here is my favourite line from the whole debacle:
"Conclusion, N64 is the console for fighters, 2D or 3D."

Game, set and match.

[Rob]

In terms of good games, it's obviously no contest for SS (I think only Rob will disagree)

I confess it. I love 3D adventure/platform games, and N64 ruled there. Also, racing games. Those are my favorite virtual 3D things. Now I feel like buying some new N64 games.

[raiden]

I confess it. I love 3D adventure/platform games, and N64 ruled there. Also, racing games. Those are my favorite virtual 3D things. Now I feel like buying some new N64 games.

The N64 has a lot of racing games, some very good ones, too. Most suffer from bad framerates, though, and the controller doesn´t really cut it either, compared with Dreamcast and Xbox(360). Last year I had this fixation of having only cartridge based consoles, so the N64 was my platform of hope in terms of racing games, but honestly, it just can´t compete. With Saturn, yes, Saturn has only the Sega racers going for it, everything else was better on Playstation. But what does that mean anymore - nowadays where Playstation has become largely obsolete either?

Take Top Gear Rally 2, for example - an incredibly hardcore simulation for the time it was released. But two years ago, Richard Burns Rally did everything in that respect so much better, playing Top Gear Rally 2 can only satisfy nostalgia, not a desire for quality.

[Rob]

Honestly, I have a gift regarding framerate. It bothers me for about 30 minutes and then goes away. And here's something really sick: I like the way (quality) N64 games look. If graphics never advanced beyond Ocarina of Time, I would not care. I don't consider the 64 or PS obsolete. I still haven't played Wave Race.

[raiden]

Honestly, I have a gift regarding framerate. It bothers me for about 30 minutes and then goes away.

with racing games? Frame rate isn´t just an optical thing, it affects gameplay severely.

And here's something really sick: I like the way (quality) N64 games look. If graphics never advanced beyond Ocarina of Time, I would not care.

oh, I can understand that perfectly.

I don't consider the 64 or PS obsolete.

Not in general, but regarding racing games, the end is near.

I still haven't played Wave Race.

you can´t be serious. You say you like racing games on N64 and haven´t played the best racing game on it? Go ahead and do so. No other water racer except its sequel has water physics this convincing. and it plays quite differently from Blue Storm, so it´s always worth a look.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Conclusion, N64 is the console for THQ wrestling games.

[ahnslaught]

I can't believe you morons think 64 is more like the saturn. The 64 has z-shadow-whogivesashit memory! Z-SHADOW-WHOGIVESASHIT MEMORY! It's clearly on par with the DC! I win, you all suck.

Plus, fighter's destiny is the greatest, deepest fighting game ever made. Never heard of it? Suckers...the ENTIRE WORLD was completely ignorant when it came out, and trumps ALL.


HAHAHA...that thread was at least good for a couple of laughs, though it started to make me cringe too much after a couple of pages

[iatneH]

Come on, this is shmups.com. There is only one genre that matters. Saturn wins!

My old N64 is basically a dedicated Sin & Punishment machine, so I'll have to give them at least that much respect. Interesting that my current focus of eBay collection-building is the Saturn..

[Eps]

I love the Saturn, but the 64 was a better all-round machine. We tend to favour the SS on here so much because it houses the genre of choice. However, the popular but still excellent likes of Goldeneye, Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were what made my N64 so kick-ass. Conversely the Saturn, while good for shoot-'em-ups, was somewhat hampered as an all-rounder by Sega's initial plan for no real polygons.

[jp]

Personally, I think comparing the Saturn and N64 is kind of silly, as both are two different worlds completely.

The Saturn offers the finest in 2D gaming (platformers, shmups, fighters) while sprinkling in a nice mix of various 3D genres (rail-shooters, platformers, fighters, etc.).

The N64 is mostly good for the typical Nintendo games, racing games, and 3D platformers.


The way I see it, the Saturn has a broader appeal while the N64 specializes in a few genres but pulls them off very well.

[CIT]

My old N64 is basically a dedicated Sin & Punishment machine...

Haha, yeah, same here.

N64 is basically the worst console Nintendo ever made. Even the Virtual Boy is better, due to the more comfortable controller.

[Ganelon]

The N64 is mostly good for the typical Nintendo games, racing games, and 3D platformers.

Come on, how could you just concede racing games to the N64? Wipeout 2097 > F-Zero X. Daytona USA & CCE along with Sega Rally Championship owns Midway's arcade nonsense. If it weren't for RR64 and World Driver Championship, I'd consider the SS to be way better in racers. As is, both seem about equal to me.

I'll grant that the N64 does have an edge in party games though. With 4 immediate controller ports and lots more party games, it's a multiplayer blast (well, you get sick of Saturn Bomberman eventually). It's also got an edge in FPS with GoldenEye, Perfect Dark, and the Turoks. And 3D wrestling games (though I still feel Fire Prowrestling is better myself...).

The whole GameFAQs thread is filled with morons. Not even worth my time arguing when they don't bother taking the time to actually check out both systems. And it's sad that not even the most intelligent posters in that thread seem to know their stuff (how could everybody forget Vanishing Earth?)...

[Arvandor]

I'm sure most of them haven't even ever played a Star Soldier game, assuming they've even heard of it in the first place. I'm actually kinda surprised it took so long for Bangai-O to be mentioned =/ I HAVE heard horror stories about modding N64's though. Lunchbox calls his "frankenstein." It functions, but man is it hideous.

[iatneH]

(how could everybody forget Vanishing Earth?)...

Because Vanishing Earth is exactly that: forgettable.

So as far as shoot-y games go, N64 has Dezaemon 3D, Bangai-O, Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth, Tsumi to batsu, and what else?
Now let's be nice and say that all of these games are top tier shooters (which at least one of them isn't). That makes at most 4 top tier shooters on N64 in total.

Saturn certainly has more than 4 top-tier shooters.

Of course I am heavily biased and sound like an ass since I really couldn't care less for other genres besides Bemani...

[BrianC]

The N64 is mostly good for the typical Nintendo games, racing games, and 3D platformers.

Come on, how could you just concede racing games to the N64? Wipeout 2097 > F-Zero X. Daytona USA & CCE along with Sega Rally Championship owns Midway's arcade nonsense. If it weren't for RR64 and World Driver Championship, I'd consider the SS to be way better in racers. As is, both seem about equal to me.

Wipeout XL/2097 is quite a bit different from F-Zero X. F-Zero X is just plain racing is more weapons based. I find both Wipeout XL and F-Zero X to be quality games. Both F-Zero X and XL are focused on high speed, though F-Zero X sacrifaced graphics and XL didn't. F-Zero X has stuff like half pipes and cylinders in the levels that Wipeout 2097/XL doesn't have (if I remember correctly). That doesn't mean it has better level design. Both games have quality level design. Also, while not as good as XL, I found Wipeout 64 to be a quality game.

Also, I haven't played Datyona CCE, but I heard that the physics have been altered compared to the original Daytona. I heard mixed things about CCE.

Comparing SEGA's racing games to Midways racing games is like comparing apples and oranges. Many of SEGAs racing games are better IMO (except maybe Datyona CCE), but they are quite different beasts. The main draw of the Rush games are stunts and/or shortcuts. SEGA's racing games aren't focused on this.

Edit: Opps! It looks like XL/2097 actually is on Saturn!

[Eps]

Oh, and:

The whole GameFAQs thread is filled with morons.

Replace 'thread' with 'forum' and you have a more accurate depiction of the place.

I lurk on a few gaming fora, but I have only ever gone to the trouble of registering on precisely two, both fairly recently and both after a long time of just lurking and reading stuff. This is obviously one of them, and a smallish general-gaming board is the other. I wouldn't use Gamefaqs, IGN, GameSpy*, etc etc, if you paid me.


* - Er, ahem. Kind of.

[GateofThunderforceIII]

Uh, someone mentioned a game called Tsumi to Batsu. I've never heard of this. Can anyone give a brief overview? Developer? Thanks!

[raiden]

Uh, someone mentioned a game called Tsumi to Batsu. I've never heard of this. Can anyone give a brief overview? Developer? Thanks!

an on-rails 3d shooter similar to Starfox 64 and Panzer Dragoon. Aka Sin and Punishment, developed by Treasure, Japan-only release.

back to racing games:
F-Zero X is the only 60fps racing game on N64, but texture details are SO low you don´t even recognize a sense of speed when driving on a straight line. There´s no landscape surroundings rushing by, and the floor texture loops in a way you might just as well stand still. The game was designed to deliver a sense of speed, but fails to deliver because of N64 hardware deficiencies. Just take a look at F-Zero GX and compare.
Wipeout XL on Saturn looks horrible compared to its Playstation counterpart. The Wipeout games were designed to deliver maximum atmosphere with a minimum of polygons, but to do so, all graphic effects the Playstation can handle were thrown in. Converting the game to Saturn, it lost its Negcon controls as well as the atmosphere. No one but platform slaves would want to play the Saturn version.
Wipeout 64 has quite a few things going for it, like the comfortable analog controls, the exclusive new courses, a few game modes like the challenges or 4-way multiplayer. But it pales in comparison with Wip3out Special Edition, which features 16 courses from Wipeout 1-3, all game modes from Wipeout 64, CD quality music, better frame rate and Dual Shock support. Unfortunately, this was a Pal only release late in the Playstations´s life cycle, so some people will not know it or be able to play it.

Regarding Daytona CCE, the jp. version is the one to get, because it supports the 3d controller in a way similar to racing games on Dreamcast and Xbox: analog acceleration and breaking with L/R-Triggers, analog steering with the analog stick.

Ridge Racer 64 is a mixed bag. Great course design, great graphics, great sound, lots of cars and courses to play with. But this is coupled with a very strange, unpredictable drift behaviour and an even stranger collision detection, where enemy cars can teleport through your car, and sometimes you can do the same, but other times you will bump "into" them while being a whole car length away from them. Same goes for course boundaries, sometimes you can cross them unpenalized, other times you will crash while still being some distance away from them. Added to this is an elastic CPU AI, causing CPU cars to sometimes drive slowly, other times speeding by, depending on how the CPU ranks your own skill. To sum it up, playing through Ridge Racer 64 is a task directly related to patience, but not related to skill. I´ve won several races without ever drifting, always just crashing into boundaries and driving on, landing in the top spot.

[Ganelon]

Other N64 shooter-sorta games: There's also our beloved Sonic Wings/Aero Fighters series bastardized into a 3D arcade flight sim (yeah, I used juxtaposition there) in SW Assault. A sad final game for the series...

Midway vs. Sega: And that's exactly why Sega's racers offers more value as racers. Midway's cars could be substituted with construction vehicles (oh wait, they did that), runners, or giant apes, and it still wouldn't feel strange at all in their racers. The gameplay focus is no doubt different and I feel Sega's serious racers are more solid..

Daytona USA 1 vs. CCE: Both feature different feeling controls from the arcade and from each other. CCE has more features so I'd go with it (the tuned up JP version of course).

GameFAQs "forum": Sorry, you lost me there.

Wipeout: Yeah, 2097 does look awful with washed out visuals and grainy textures on the SS, in the same way as many 3D games. Still, it has the same quality Redbook and additional tunes that sound a lot better IMO than the techno on the PS version. I've always wanted to try 3SE since I've heard nothing but good things about it since its release but the PAL exclusivity has kept me away.

RR64: The most annoying thing to me about this game is the simultaneous race startup. After suffering from the CPU continuously ganging up to block my path, I realized why Namco never went for this crap in their versions.

[captain ahar]

And here's something really sick: I like the way (quality) N64 games look.

me too, though not with the n64. playing c64 games still makes me giggle like the school girl that i am. "ooh, the palette."

...oh, and saturn. saturn wins, n64 does not. i don't recall a n64 game that didn't end up boring me to tears... though banjo kazooie was less boring than most... but mostly only because of the audio.

[Ed Oscuro]

In terms of good games, it's obviously no contest for SS (I think only Rob will disagree)

I confess it. I love 3D adventure/platform games, and N64 ruled there. Also, racing games. Those are my favorite virtual 3D things. Now I feel like buying some new N64 games.

I agree for the same reason. Both Zelda games and Xtreme-G 2 (not the original, ugh) were awesome - Goldeneye as well. When I look at the SS I see a lot of arcade games. I think actually the perception that the SS was nothing but arcade ports killed it - people wanted games with a story to tell. Whatever. Mischief Makers > all.

[KBZ]

pokemon snap ftw

[Fenrir]

pokemon snap ftw

w0rd

[Specineff]

Wipeout XL on Saturn actually runs and flows nicely. Yup. The graphical effects suck compared to the PS1. But it doesn't stutter or tear up. And it's compatible with the Nights analog controller, something that could have been implemented on the PS1 version, but Sony just hadn't gotten the analog finished on time.

[raiden]

And it's compatible with the Nights analog controller, something that could have been implemented on the PS1 version, but Sony just hadn't gotten the analog finished on time.

are you sure the analog compatibility is in all region-versions of the game?
PS1 Wipeout XL was about 2 years before the analog controller came out, so I doubt it would have been possible.

[Specineff]

Well, Sony had made a non-dual shock analog controller by the time WOXL was made, IIRC. The Japanese version of WOXL Saturn is compatible with the analog all right. I've played it. And the manual has a huge pic of it, along with the Saturn's steering wheel.