shmups.system11.org

I'm really curious about this, is it a "built in" feature?

Yes. It's built in. You just turn it on in the menu.

It cannot rotate the image. It just reverses (horizontal and/or vertical) lines of the image.

I'm mostly interested for the Dragon Saber port on PS1. It has a tate option but it's facing down versus everything else and has no option to flip it the "correct" way.

I know it says it's not recommend anymore but the C2-2200A seems to have the appropriate amount of inputs for my cabinet. I'm new to scalers so be gentle.

I have: PC Engine, N64, NES, SNES, Wii, PSX, Saturn, PS2, Genesis & PS3 all outputting component video into an array of 5 identical daisy-chained switch boxes which then feed into my CRT, in that order. I realize this isn't ideal, but the boxes are non-powered & seem to carry perfect component video, all the way back down the line to PCE. If anyone knows of a good, non-powered component selector with at least 11 inputs let me know.

I ordered a Corio2-2200A last night under the impression that I'll be able to run my final component cable of the chain into the BNC ports & convert my Wii, PS2, & PS3 signals to 240p while passing the others through like normal (unless I want to make adjustments.)

It also seems that I could plug my Dreamcast into the VGA & convert it to 240p through the same output.

Finally, that leaves the DVI input for me to feed my Intel NUC miniPC in through a DisplayPort HDMI to DVI connector. The NUC has integrated graphics & can't normally display on a CRT, but I would like to have the latest MAME setup through a frontend. I have MAME on PS3 & Wii already, but they only run old, innacurate versions from the early 2000's with limited romsets. Ideally I could use the NUC to feed Retroarch or Hyperspin into the CRT, 240p, & use my XBone controller to play wirelessly.

My question is, if all of these are plugged in, will they all feed through the Corio2's DVI output (Using DVI to BNC to component) to my CRT's component input whenever I need without me having to swap cables around?

Let me know if I have made a grave error, because I bought that thing for $200, plus at least another $100 for cables, couplings, & adapters lol

If I'm understanding that big long chain of consoles correctly, I think the question is if the C2-2200 lets all these signals pass through when it's turned off I think - figure that out and you should be golden. Then just turn the C2-2200 on when you want to downscale Dreamcast, PS2, PS3, and Wii --- and off when it's passing through (if possible) the other non-480p+ signals.

Two other points: PS2 has like ~5% (or something meager like that) of it's library as 480i...so it's going to be slim pickings for 480p games to downscale to 240p with your C2-2200. If modded, you can force it to 480p but I read about so many issues with that I've never tried it myself yet.

Last, it sounds like you REALLY need something like an Extron Crosspoint Ultra switcher for all these consoles. Grab a couple bags of cheap RCA to BNC adapters off Amazon or eBay (your Component cables use RCA connectors, and the Crosspoint uses BNC) and you should be all set. I have a post about the Crosspoints if you want to see how I use them.

Just a followup...got my C2-2355A up and running with great results.

Here's a large album of shots on my D24 - https://imgur.com/a/DqO0RRV

The games I tried:

Undertale (PC: 480p -> 240p)
Hotline Miami (PC: 720p and 480p -> 240p)
Dead Cells (PC: 720p and 480p -> 240p)
Super Meat Boy (PC: 720p -> 240p)
Shovel Knight (Switch: 480p -> 240p)
Sonic Mania (Switch: 480p -> 240p)
Blaster Master Zero (Switch: 480p -> 240p)

I found I generally had the best results when downscaling from 480p to 240p as opposed to 720p to 240p. The UI in Dead Cells in particular was much more readable when I set the PC to 480p.

I still have to do a fair amount of image resizing/repositioning every time which is a slight pain but I've gotten fast at making the adjustments.

I do still have the extra unit and received a couple of requests, will be reaching out via PM soon.

Wow! i just read the write up and convinced me to pick one up.
already most of the cables listed:
Monoprice VGA HD15 Male to 5x BNC Female Adapter Cable i'm using to feed a MVS neogeo into an extron160rxi to a JVC pvm
USB to Serial programmer cable i needed to access a Kuro plasma service menu

I ordered a 1T-C2-750
hope i can get it working quickly

I love playing the SNES Classic in 240p using the Corio2, thank you for this writeup!

For newer generation games with a native resolution of 480 or above, I'd personally rather deal with the 480i interlace jitter (which isn't noticeable to me on my small CRT if I'm not paying attention) than the half resolution of 240p. I've so far been unsuccessful in figuring out how to accomplish this.

What resolution settings should be used for a Corio2 to passthru a 480i signal as 480i? And furthermore, is it possible to convert a progressive signal to 480i with the Corio2 (and if so, what are the resolution settings to accomplish this?)

my box came in today!







going to try and get it to work...

Mine arrived as well along with a metric butt-ton of cables. I made damn sure I'd have everything I need for my old room but then had an opportunity to move to a modern place. Now it's packed up in a foot locker with all my consoles & I haven't even gotten to test it yet!

Hey guys! i finally got it up and running.

I hooked up a ps3 via hdmi and loaded up the C2-400 file unto a C2-750, followed the instructions and got 480p downscaled to 240p.

here's some pics of Megaman 9 running off PS3 via HDMI to C2-750 to PVM 14N6U via RGB

Hey, i was in the same situation and kept having to tweak in the source sub-menu the TL pos. adjust every time i powered up my C2-750 out of standby, pictured here:



since i'm new and don't know much about what i'm doing i'm posting a noob step by step post... maybe it'll help others with the same question/issue.

first kept trying by saving my presets by running through the menu to save my presets as shown here:



but it wouldn't save the TL pos i set but only the resolution selected.

i found going into 'submenu...' 'system': then scrolling over to 'Save power-on settings' did the trick!



made the last pic full size to see the scanlines =D

The other units have a couple similar ways of doing this. Both the C2-400 and C2-2200 has in the System menu a "Push to Store" option (similar to yours). The C2-2200 can also hold down the joystick until it beeps as well, but I always do it through the menu. You can see this on the very last video I posted in the tutorial at the 2 minute mark (and also how to store settings through the "adjust presets" menu).

Thanks Dochartaigh for the write up and help! With the C2-750, i had trouble with the initial step of hooking it up to a 480i monitor and go into the on-screen menu... the C2-400 trick where you force 480p mode... i don't know if the 750 has that feature, so i had to go in blind silently count the steps to change the resolution and format from RGBHV to RGBS. Everything else was a breeze thanks to your guide and the XML files you shared.

Last week while at work, i was reading @orange808's google doc and this thread to make sure and get DVI to VGA adaptors with the Tendak to kill the PS3 HDCP encryption.

Hey Davidwhangchoi, there's a C2-750 for sale near me and was wondering how easy or hard it is to switch between several presets? Can the presets be changed via the menu button? I noticed it only has two preset buttons.

Edit: My bad I didn't know messages had to be mod approved.

Just a follow up on the 2200a - I got mine all set up last night & it works like a dream. Looks absolutely fantastic for both my Intel NUC through the DVI input & Dreamcast through VGA. I adjusted the DVI input so that MAME displays with barely any overscan & it looks just like all my other consoles. You can't even tell it's passing through a string of adapters into & through another device. Perfect image, nice chunky scanlines, perfect color & sound. Dreamcast also looks bliss & only needed some minor positioning/size adjustments.

Didn't really bother with the other consoles for now since they are already component. I did verify that the BNC input was working by pulling up an image of the Wii running Mega Man 9, which looked like it needed some major tweaking if I ever want to go this route.

One thing that I'd like to stress is that it's possible to permanantly brick a 2200 if you fail the firmware update. Verify that your RS232 cable is working properly before you send anything through. If it's even a little finicky don't mess with updating unless you have to. Check your firmware & see if you're already on the latest version. I believe you can factory reset by holding power & the menu stick in for a few seconds. If you're already on the latest firmware just do that. If it's like other devices it should retain the FW version but reset any custom settings the previous owner may have used.

My RS232 cables are fine but the Corio2 FW update utility is super-jank. It acts really erratically on my PC, but that may be different for others depending on your OS & whatnot. My first unit arrived with obvious shipping damage & looked like it got pegged by the corner of a cartoon anvil, so that may have been the problem as well. There's no way to know because it can't be detected by my PC at all anymore. Luckily the seller had a large stock & was willing to send me another free of charge, but not everyone will be so fortunate. This could be one of those devices where the quality varies from unit to unit & it's a crapshoot to order one.

I hope I get some decent mileage out of it. The menu has 9000+ hours logged so that's a little over a year of operation. Maybe not bad for a 10 year old device? My best guess is that it was used for a security camera somewhere, as the tops of both of my units look like they had other heat-producing devices stacked on them at some point. On the plus side the build quality feels very solid.

Many thanks to Dochartaigh for those .XML files! It took a lot of pain out of the process & made this feel closer to a plug & play solution than it naturally would have been.

That number might not be accurate - firmware updates can mess with the hour count.

What is the latest firmware for the 2200A and would a RS232 to USB cable work for updating?
Also, with the use of DVI-I to HDMI adapters, does it support embedded audio?

Worked for me and my C2-1200. Probably wouldn't matter which you get, but I bought this one specifically. Also works when paired with a null modem adapter for my Kramer FC-4040 (But that's still busted, and I'm not paying Kramer $250 for a repair).

My version is 231 and it's working fine, but there have been at least 4 updates beyond that with 368 being the latest listed on the website. It's up to you if you wanna chance updating it, just be careful. An RS232 to USB is what you need for both the update and to put Dochartaigh's profiles on it, but make sure to test it out on some safe stuff first. I would just skip it and factory reset instead honestly because it's 50/50 whether the failed update or the shipping damage bricked my first unit. The FW update utility failed three times with two different cables before finally the unit ceased to communicate at all. After the first failure you're bricked, but you're not supposed to be bricked permanently like that according to TVOne. The update utility is still able to detect the paired unit and can still attempt to flash the new FW to it, but mine disappeared completely after the third attempt at recovery. The LED wouldn't even activate and different buttons would light up each time I power cycled it. Something rattles around inside when I shake it so it's probably a result of UPS hiring nothing but meth addicted convicted felons in my town since the county jail is directly across the street

I'm not sure about the embedded audio. I just ran a stereo jack from my mini PC to a splitter and then 'piggyback' RCA's from that into my CRT.

Also, this seller is where I got mine and they were very quick and kind about replacing it. I just sent photos of the damage with a good description of my troubleshooting and they had a new one on the way the next morning. Looks like they have 7 more in stock.

Yea, I do not have anything with a RS232 so it would have to be done with a RS232 to USB. If I decide to buy one I will try to ask that seller if he could update the firmware to 368 as it seems to add embedded HDMI audio too. I think this C2-2000A firmware works for the C2-2200A also. But do all these units use the same scaling engine or do units with higher numbers have improved hardware? I understand everyone seems to use these to downscale up to 1080p to 240p, but how is up-scaling from 240p/480p/720p to 1080p? I honestly like the C2-750 unit, but for some reason they are all $1000 on ebay now.

I just added a link in the tutorial to the exact USB programmer cable I use. There's slightly cheaper ones, but I've programmed around 30 or 40 Corio2's so far, and updated firmware on a good dozen or so (including my original/first one, which I probably re-flashed the firmware 20+ times on that one as I was learning to use these) - not a single problem. There might be something wrong with the Corio2 unit, the cable, maybe your computer (less likely of those three).






I think the 2200A that I sold, before I even knew these things kept an hour count (buyer casually mentioned the hours later on) had something like 67k hours on it - and that one has been perfect as far as I know (whereas a bunch of 2200A's with WAY less hours - maybe 15-30k, have given me a couple faults from time to time).






As far as I know, the scaling is done with the same Corio2 chip - so any model which says "Corio2" should (in theory) have the same exact scaling quality. Differences in models seems to be mostly about the inputs and outputs (the kind, and how many). Some have SDI/HD-SDI, some have audio (others don't), some have the nice DVI-U connectors (little more flexible than the VGA types). I would expect the newer "C3"/Corio3 models to have some advantages, but as those are very expensive I don't know of anybody who has even tried those to confirm they can output 240p to begin with.

For upscaling, I know Xer Xian likes his Corio2 for 480p upscaling. General word is that 240p to 1080p is not nearly as good as something like the OSSC or FrameMeister (which I own those two, so I never tried upscaling 240p with the Corio2).

For 480p to 1080p upscaling, I did finally get my two 2200A's working with my two different OG Xbox's (one outputs YPbPr, the other RGBS), and I have to say I really didn't care for the image. I was using my OSSC in passthrough mode to convert the RGBS output from the Corio2 to HDMI, and at some point in the future will try it directly out of the Corio2 (I was short a cable to try this last time), and I also have a Kramer DVI+audio to HDMI box I can try as well.

The same cables work fine on the replacement so I know it's not them. The replacement doesn't rattle like the bricked one so it's most likely the result of shipping damage. It's really weird how different buttons light up each time I cut & resupply power to it, so I think that might be a clue as to what's gone wrong in there.

Would you happen to have any suggestions on other things I could try to unbrick before I open it up?

Sorry I do not.

Corio, Corio2, and Corio3/Coriomaster are all based on FPGA designs. There were two versions of the Corio2 FPGA, but the only additional feature is a bolted on "frame lock" feature that isn't particularly compelling. Everything else with the Corio2 version 1 and Corio2 version 2 is almost identical. (Except for digital output options.)

The "frame lock" isnt real frame lock implementation, anyway. It appears to (just) be an automated routine that adjusts the device output settings. So, the "frame lock" just adjusts the same settings you can adjust in the GUI menu--with sometimes questionable results. When you turn it on, the algorithm takes a few minutes to work. As far as I can tell, it detects artifacts from frame rate conversion and simply adjusts the output refresh rate in small amounts--until it gets the best results. The output rate is still independent from the input rate, so you aren't getting a real feature--just an automated settings adjustment tool.

I get better results just setting it up myself.

------------

Corio3? Well....

Corio3 is an entirely different new FPGA. That's an entirely new conversation.

The Corio3 is designed for digital signage and driving LED arrays. It feels half finished and it's short on video processing features and options. It's frustrating how limited the options are.

The Corio3 has limits on output signals that are more restricted than the Corio2. You can get 240p from it, but the pixel clock had to be set a little high for most consumer televisions. Corio3 is really meant to output high resolution output.

The latency is about the same as the Corio2--if just a little slower. You get some interesting automated digital signage tricks, but I don't set video games to continuously rotate the entire screen. That's just annoying.

Frame lock was abandoned and I hear it was buggy on older firmwares.

To be perfectly, honest you're better off getting a Calibre Reon HQV machine if you want rotation. The latency is the same and the Calibre has real frame lock. The Calibre machine doesn't have a full 4:4:4 path, but it's more user friendly and it has more basic functionally as a standalone video processor than you'll get from the Corio3. Also, the Calibre accepts 960p, so the color subsampling issue is mostly moot, anyhow. Just use an OSSC and line double 480p.

Unless you are a business owner with digital signage, I can't think of a single reason to own a Corio3. TVOne never really invested in bringing robust options and controls to the Corio3, so the possibilities are never realized. It's just a plug and play machine for signs.

Edit: Just for clarity, the Corio3 is very good at what it does. The issue here is that it wasn't developed into a full featured video processor. It's an easy to use signage machine--and a really nice one at that. It's just NOT a home theater or video game processor.

I got a few pms so i thought to post it here since i got permission.

first, for those who are wondering about the C2-750 XML profile for use. I e-mailed Dochartaigh the 240p profiles i edited to work for the C2-750 and Dochartaigh graciously updated his post on the first page w/ the C2-750 XML profile if anyone needs it.

posting the question below in the thread with permission so other 750 users may be able see/add and share with the community:

It's pretty easy to switch between presents.

i'll post pics along the way to make sure the steps are clear for the C2-750:
Hit the menu button (far left)


to bring up the menu screen (if you already navigated previously, the last sub menu will recall when hitting the menu button, this is the first screen that pops up at the start)


toggle to the left by hitting the "up arrow"(key) button 7 times till you reach: Sub menu... Adjust outputs


Hit menu and then hit the "up arrow"(key) button 2 times till you reach: Output res.
Hit enter(menu), toggle using down(PIP) button or up(key) button between whatever preset numbers are installed after loading up the XML files on the first page properly.

for example:
240p MASTER is on preset 3
240p PS2 is present 5



and you have 2 hard buttons on the C2-750 to save any 2 presets for quicker access:

If you're desperate to get rid of 480i, you can try this on your Corio2 and get "fake 240p". (Doesn't work on most PS2 games because the PlayStation 2 uses a filter before it interlaces the image. Combining fields with PS2 games creates a nasty mess.)

Dreamcast generally seems to play nice with the Corio2 if you want to get "fake 240p" from 480i. I went ahead and used a 120fps camera to verify that all 60 frames are represented. If flicker really bugs you, you'll absolutely hate Corio2 "fake 240p". It's not as clear and clean, either.

For Dreamcast: Turn on bob deinterlacing. Set the bottom right vertical setting in source to -6 and the top left vertical setting to zero. Set field offset to -2.

Use top left vertical 0, bottom right vertical -6, and a field offset of -1 for 3do.

You will get a "double strike" effect that is similar to the Extron RGB trick. It's still not real 240p, but it's better than 480i.

Don't bother trying the PS2. I've been trying to get good results with the PS2 for months. I don't think it can be done on a Corio2.

With so few options available, that's as good as it gets right now.

Edit:
Wii 480i
top left vertical = 0 bottom right vertical = -6 field offset = -2

Ok, I just ordered a C2-2200 and I had a few questions about it. I got it for a few reasons, to be able to play old 240p games on my little Panasonic PVM via emulator on the PC, also to downscale 480p signal from my PC to 240p so I could use an old apple monochrome computer monitor that only take composite video for creative writing and not be distracted by flickering, and then also to hopefully convert the output from my Xbox One to VGA to be displayed on a GDM-W900, which for whatever reason other HDMI to VGA solutions aren't working with. I'm hoping that since the C2-2200 has alot more output options that can be tweaked than just a little dongle adapter it might be able to get the Xbox One to play nice with the Sony W900 VGA CRT monitor.

I was also wondering can the C2-2200 can line double 480p to 960p so there won't be scanlines on a VGA CRT? I'd love to be able to play some Gamecube/Wii/ and original Xbox games on a VGA monitor as I don't have a 480p capable broadcast monitor or component-to-vga adapter.

I had some questions about 480i, so let me clarify and give an example:

Both PS2 The Fantasy Zone Collection with flicker filtering disabled or the SNES 240p Test Suite yield acceptable results and provide proof of concept. A video processor that alters the offset of the fields can get 240p from 480i.

Unfortunately, the Corio2 adds an extra step: deinterlacing. There is a hint of flicker in brightness and that's unavoidable because we are line doubling to 480p before downscaling. Then again, the scanlines are sharp and always properly aligned. This only works with a few rare roms that don't perform flicker filtering.

For everything else, you will see the fields appear to tremble and they will lose detail in some frames. That's your POS flicker filter messing things up--not the bob deinterlacing.

The lesson here is that field offset controls aren't enough. If the game uses a flicker filter technique, no field offset manipulation will ever get us clean 240p from a 480i game. We will need software hacks to get there. The flicker ftering can't be there.

So, even if the OSSC gets the ability to change field offsets and do this trick the *right* way, we still will need rom hacks (or an option in some loaders?) to force the flicker filter off on 480i consoles. Of course, for PS2 games that went the extra mile and created their own filtering in software, we need that rom hack.