Is it possible to get PS2 480p AND 240p/480i?

[Nodoyuna]

Hi

This weekend I've been messing with integrate my PS2 into my setup

I've been able to get 480p using the same setup as in retroRGB website:

PS2 SCART RGB -> ArcadeForge's SyncStrike -> Extron RGB Interface -> Extron VGA Matrix Switcher -> VGA monitor

My question is: as not every game is 480p compatible, and in fact it seems most of them are 480i only, is it possible to get 240p/480i at the same time as 480p and connect the PS2 to a PVM RGB monitor AND a VGA monitor?

I have an Extron Super Emotia on one of the outputs of my VGA Matrix Switcher. Can I route PS2 480p to the Emotia for 480p -> 480i conversion? Will it give the same quality as native 480i output?

Will I need two PS2's, one for each type of signal?

I don't really like if I need to have changing cables every time

Thanks in advance

PS: Also, this weekend I've connected the PS3 to my VGA monitor and it's really great

[Fudoh]

Can I route PS2 480p to the Emotia for 480p -> 480i conversion? Will it give the same quality as native 480i output?

yes, you can. This way is considerably easier than displaying the 480i titles on your VGA CRT.

[Nodoyuna]

Can I route PS2 480p to the Emotia for 480p -> 480i conversion? Will it give the same quality as native 480i output?

yes, you can. This way is considerably easier than displaying the 480i titles on your VGA CRT.

But, this will work for 480i only games?

It would be great to have something similar to the Dreamcast TORO Box for the PS2...

[Fudoh]

Just to make sure I get your idea: you want to display 480i and 480p at the same time, right ? Not just EITHER OR depending on the game, but without changing cables ?

How does the Toro solve this for you (on the DC) ? It won't get you 480p from a 480i only title and it won't display 480i and 480p at the same time.

[Nodoyuna]

Just to make sure I get your idea: you want to display 480i and 480p at the same time, right ? Not just EITHER OR depending on the game, but without changing cables ?

How does the Toro solve this for you (on the DC) ? It won't get you 480p from a 480i only title and it won't display 480i and 480p at the same time.

Yes, what I want is to have a setup which will display PS2 480p games to the VGA monitor and 480i/240p to the PVM

The Toro box has VGA and SCART outputs with a switch to select between them, and also, there is a switch that changes the sync. In one position it outputs RGHV and in the other RGBS. I have a VGA cable connected to my VGA monitor and a SCART cable to the PVM

So I can switch outputs without changing cables on the Dreamcast

[Fudoh]

Yes, what I want is to have a setup which will display PS2 480p games to the VGA monitor and 480i/240p to the PVM

ah, ok, but NOT the same game at the same time on both displays (which I assumed) ?

Does your current chain just with the PVM at the end not give you useable results ?

PS2 SCART RGB -> ArcadeForge's SyncStrike -> Extron RGB Interface -> Extron VGA Matrix Switcher -> PVM

- Scart cable will carry 480i and 480p - check
- Sync Strike works with both RGBs and RGsB, right ? - check
- RGB interface should work with both - check
- Matrix Switch works with both - check

[Nodoyuna]

Yes, what I want is to have a setup which will display PS2 480p games to the VGA monitor and 480i/240p to the PVM

ah, ok, but NOT the same game at the same time on both displays (which I assumed) ?

Does your current chain just with the PVM at the end not give you useable results ?

PS2 SCART RGB -> ArcadeForge's SyncStrike -> Extron RGB Interface -> Extron VGA Matrix Switcher -> PVM

- Scart cable will carry 480i and 480p - check
- Sync Strike works with both RGBs and RGsB, right ? - check
- RGB interface should work with both - check
- Matrix Switch works with both - check

Oh, I thought once the signal gets to the VGA Matrix Switcher it will became 480p only

I will check tonight

Thanks for the tips

[nmalinoski]

The Toro box has VGA and SCART outputs with a switch to select between them, and also, there is a switch that changes the sync. In one position it outputs RGHV and in the other RGBS.

This is not correct. The Toro always outputs to both the DE-15 and SCART outputs and has no switch to toggle between the two.

The switch in the bank of four switches closest to the console indicates to the console which video mode should be used (15kHz 240p/480i RGBS or 31kHz 480p DTV RGBHV); and the switch located on the PCB, between the DE-15 and SCART ports, simply toggles whether the DE-15 is fed RGBHV or RGBS. The SCART output is always RGBS, regardless of the position of this second switch.

Although it's my understanding that the Toro wasn't designed to drive both outputs simultaneously, it sounds like you really just need to configure your Toro to output RGBHV over the DE-15 port and leave it be.

[Nodoyuna]

The Toro box has VGA and SCART outputs with a switch to select between them, and also, there is a switch that changes the sync. In one position it outputs RGHV and in the other RGBS.

This is not correct. The Toro always outputs to both the DE-15 and SCART outputs and has no switch to toggle between the two.

The switch in the bank of four switches closest to the console indicates to the console which video mode should be used (15kHz 240p/480i RGBS or 31kHz 480p DTV RGBHV); and the switch located on the PCB, between the DE-15 and SCART ports, simply toggles whether the DE-15 is fed RGBHV or RGBS. The SCART output is always RGBS, regardless of the position of this second switch.

Although it's my understanding that the Toro wasn't designed to drive both outputs simultaneously, it sounds like you really just need to configure your Toro to output RGBHV over the DE-15 port and leave it be.

Hi

I'm not using it for simultaneous output, but depending on the game, I use RGBHV or RGBS (Most of the time I use 480p but I use RGBS for 240p/480i games if they don't work in 480p)

This way, I have both cables connected and with the push of the switch, I can alternate between the two modes

Then, if a game work in 480i but not in 480p, I can try to patch the game for 480p

Anyway, I'll check my Toro tonight...

But, as I said before, a similar solution for PS2 would be great

[nmalinoski]

I'm not using it for simultaneous output, but depending on the game, I usually use RGBHV or RGBS (Most of the time I use 480p but I use RGBS for 240p/480i games if they don't work in 480p)

This way, I have both cables connected and with the push of the switch, I can alternate between the two modes

If I'm understanding correctly, you have the DE-15/RGBHV output going to a VGA monitor for 480p content, and the SCART output going to a PVM for 240p/480i content, yes? I think that's the only instance where it makes sense to have the Toro wired that way.

Like I said, you should just need to set that DE-15 mode switch so it outputs RGBHV, and then you'd just need to turn on the console and whichever display you want to play on.

Also keep in mind that the vast majority of RGB-compatible 480i-only Dreamcast games can be tricked into running in 480p (without issues) by booting the console with the DC mode switch (the one closest to the console) set to RGBS, and then flipping it during the Sega licensing screen. Before I got my GDEMU (which can force 480p automatically via GDMenu), I would do this to play Bust-A-Move 4 in 480p, which normally complains at boot that it's not compatible.

[Nodoyuna]

If I'm understanding correctly, you have the DE-15/RGBHV output going to a VGA monitor for 480p content, and the SCART output going to a PVM for 240p/480i content, yes? I think that's the only instance where it makes sense to have the Toro wired that way.

Yes, that's how I have it on my setup

I'd like to be able to do the same for PS2, 480p going to the VGA monitor and SCART going to the PVM, and depending on game, use one or the other monitor

[Classicgamer]

The issue with rgb 480p for the PS2 is that it switches to SOG when you switch resolutions. Why? Who knows...

So, buy one of the PS2 rgb cables from Ultimarc. There are two choices. Buy the one for tri-sync monitors. It outputs RGB on a female DB15 (vga style) cable. Connect that cable to an Extron rgb interface. The interface will ensure that you output the right sync type, no matter what type the PS2 sends.

The output from the interface can be sent to a vga splitter or an rgb switch so you don't need to keep switching cables.

[Nodoyuna]

The issue with rgb 480p for the PS2 is that it switches to SOG when you switch resolutions. Why? Who knows...

So, buy one of the PS2 rgb cables from Ultimarc. There are two choices. Buy the one for tri-sync monitors. It outputs RGB on a female DB15 (vga style) cable. Connect that cable to an Extron rgb interface. The interface will ensure that you output the right sync type, no matter what type the PS2 sends.

The output from the interface can be sent to a vga splitter or an rgb switch so you don't need to keep switching cables.

Right now I can use this setup:
PS2 SCART RGB -> ArcadeForge's SyncStrike -> Extron RGB Interface -> Extron VGA Matrix Switcher -> VGA monitor

This gives me 480p on my VGA monitor...

As I have a VGA Matrix Switcher with 8 outputs, once I got 480p from PS2, can I do this?:

480p VGA Matrix Switcher Output -> Extron RGB Interface -> SCART -> PVM

This should work, right? And this way I have the PS2 output 480p to VGA monitor and 480i/240p to PVM...

[nmalinoski]

So, buy one of the PS2 rgb cables from Ultimarc. There are two choices. Buy the one for tri-sync monitors. It outputs RGB on a female DB15 (vga style) cable. Connect that cable to an Extron rgb interface. The interface will ensure that you output the right sync type, no matter what type the PS2 sends.

What might be a problem with this approach is if that cable doesn't have an embedded a sync stripper, which, although advertised as a feature, is, as far as I can tell, instead embedded on the optional video amplifier board, which wouldn't be used in this scenario.

In order for this to work, this cable would need to be wired directly to the matrix switcher, with one output going directly to the PVM for 15kHz, and a second output going into the RGB interface to provide RGBHV for the VGA monitor. The PS2 doesn't provide a clean composite sync output without a hardware modification (which makes RGB output full-time RGBS with clean CSync, making this all moot); instead, it only provides composite video and luma as sync for 15kHz modes, and only SoG for 31kHz+ modes.

So, with that setup, when in 15kHz modes, the PVM will display an image because (I assume) it accepts composite video or luma as sync, but the VGA monitor won't because the RGB interface won't accept composite video or luma as sync; and, then, when in 31kHz+ modes, the VGA monitor will display an image, because the Extron RGB will accept RGsB from the console, but the PVM won't because it's ostensibly still configured for external sync, which it isn't receiving.

Of course, all of that means that he would need both monitors running for any games that drop back to 480i for menus and prerendered cutscenes (Gran Turismo 4 comes to mind). I'm not sure whether or not that's a desirable scenario.

Right now I can use this setup:
PS2 SCART RGB -> ArcadeForge's SyncStrike -> Extron RGB Interface -> Extron VGA Matrix Switcher -> VGA monitor

This gives me 480p on my VGA monitor...

As I have a VGA Matrix Switcher with 8 outputs, once I got 480p from PS2, can I do this?:

480p VGA Matrix Switcher Output -> Extron RGB Interface -> SCART -> PVM

This should work, right? And this way I have the PS2 output 480p to VGA monitor and 480i/240p to PVM...

As I mentioned above, I don't think you'd wire the RGB interface to the PVM, unless you're going to use it for 480p as well, or if it doesn't accept composite video or luma.

If your PVM for whatever reason doesn't accept composite video or luma as sync, you can probably use the matrix switcher to duplicate the RGB outputs from the RGB interface. Assuming you're using something like a CrossPoint, with BNC connectors for I/O, (wouldn't be as easy with a VGA matrix switcher, for example) you could do the following:
* Connect output from the PS2 to something like a SyncStrike or another inline sync stripper, and then to the input on the Extron RGB interface
* Connect R, G, B, H, and V from the RGB interface to input 1 on the CrossPoint
* Connect R, G, B outputs on output 1 on the CrossPoint to R, G, B on input 2 on the CrossPoint
* Connect S from the RGB interface to S/H on input 2 on the CrossPoint
Then configure the CrossPoint as follows:
* Video from input 1 to outputs 1 and 2
* Video from input 2 to output 3
Then connect output 2 to your VGA monitor and output 3 to your PVM.

As for your wiring suggestion, generally, PVMs use BNC inputs, so I would just run BNC directly from the CrossPoint to the PVM; I'd only use SCART if the PVM had a SCART input.

[FinalBaton]

Just gonna add here that Street Fighter Alpha Anthology for PS2 looks good with the Extron interfaces' double-strike trick. I can't say if it's perfect or not, there might some filtering going on, but on a crt it looks good. blanked lines align properly. This is one of my fave way to play the alpha games, as these ports are fantastic "ruleset"-wise and have pretty much all of the frames of animation, and you get all games and their iterations on one disc.

btw it'd be cool to compile a list of "PS2 480i games that look good when downscaled" ! Just a thought

[Nodoyuna]

As I mentioned above, I don't think you'd wire the RGB interface to the PVM, unless you're going to use it for 480p as well, or if it doesn't accept composite video or luma.

If your PVM for whatever reason doesn't accept composite video or luma as sync, you can probably use the matrix switcher to duplicate the RGB outputs from the RGB interface. Assuming you're using something like a CrossPoint, with BNC connectors for I/O, (wouldn't be as easy with a VGA matrix switcher, for example) you could do the following:
* Connect output from the PS2 to something like a SyncStrike or another inline sync stripper, and then to the input on the Extron RGB interface
* Connect R, G, B, H, and V from the RGB interface to input 1 on the CrossPoint
* Connect R, G, B outputs on output 1 on the CrossPoint to R, G, B on input 2 on the CrossPoint
* Connect S from the RGB interface to S/H on input 2 on the CrossPoint
Then configure the CrossPoint as follows:
* Video from input 1 to outputs 1 and 2
* Video from input 2 to output 3
Then connect output 2 to your VGA monitor and output 3 to your PVM.

As for your wiring suggestion, generally, PVMs use BNC inputs, so I would just run BNC directly from the CrossPoint to the PVM; I'd only use SCART if the PVM had a SCART input.

WOW! The PS2 seems to be one of the most complicated consoles to setup...

I haven't thought of games that switches from 480p to 480i... This will be an issue with every setup, right? Also with component cables?

It seems the "best" screen for PS2 should be a tri-sync monitor or an HDTV CRT, right?

[nmalinoski]

WOW! The PS2 seems to be one of the most complicated consoles to setup...

I haven't thought of games that switches from 480p to 480i... This will be an issue with every setup, right? Also with component cables?

It seems the "best" screen for PS2 should be a tri-sync monitor or an HDTV CRT, right?

The PS2 is a little better if you stick with YPbPr component, because it supports all video modes over YPbPr--it's only when you want to use RGB that you need to deal with the format change between RGBS and RGsB--but you still have to deal with dropouts in games that switch video mode.

That generation of consoles in general has a lot of growing pains related to flat-panel displays. The Xbox has games that also switch modes out of 480p (although I believe far fewer), and it wouldn't surprise me if there were examples on the GameCube or Dreamcast that do the same. You can go back one more generation to the PS1, N64, and Saturn, where there were still games that switched between 480i and 240p, but that's still all 15kHz.

I think a tri-sync CRT would work well, but it would need to support RGsB for 480p, and I'm sure some people wouldn't want to sacrifice widescreen.

HD CRTs are generally not a good fit, because they most often don't understand 240p (they'll try to deinterlace it and instead end up introducing combing artifacts), and I don't recall what kind of display lag these sets introduce, if any, nor do I recall if they can survive sync dropouts from HDMI sources in the way older CRTs can survive dropouts from analogue sources. Does anyone else have more info?

[Nodoyuna]

WOW! The PS2 seems to be one of the most complicated consoles to setup...

I haven't thought of games that switches from 480p to 480i... This will be an issue with every setup, right? Also with component cables?

It seems the "best" screen for PS2 should be a tri-sync monitor or an HDTV CRT, right?

The PS2 is a little better if you stick with YPbPr component, because it supports all video modes over YPbPr--it's only when you want to use RGB that you need to deal with the format change between RGBS and RGsB--but you still have to deal with dropouts in games that switch video mode.

That generation of consoles in general has a lot of growing pains related to flat-panel displays. The Xbox has games that also switch modes out of 480p (although I believe far fewer), and it wouldn't surprise me if there were examples on the GameCube or Dreamcast that do the same. You can go back one more generation to the PS1, N64, and Saturn, where there were still games that switched between 480i and 240p, but that's still all 15kHz.

I think a tri-sync CRT would work well, but it would need to support RGsB for 480p, and I'm sure some people wouldn't want to sacrifice widescreen.

HD CRTs are generally not a good fit, because they most often don't understand 240p (they'll try to deinterlace it and instead end up introducing combing artifacts), and I don't recall what kind of display lag these sets introduce, if any, nor do I recall if they can survive sync dropouts from HDMI sources in the way older CRTs can survive dropouts from analogue sources. Does anyone else have more info?

So there's no hope for games that switch from 480p to 480i... The only option for those is to accept that the switch will happen, or maybe stick to 480i for those games?

I've read RGB output is better than component for PS2, is that correct?

Are there many games that does this switch from 480p to 480i?

[Classicgamer]

So, buy one of the PS2 rgb cables from Ultimarc. There are two choices. Buy the one for tri-sync monitors. It outputs RGB on a female DB15 (vga style) cable. Connect that cable to an Extron rgb interface. The interface will ensure that you output the right sync type, no matter what type the PS2 sends.

What might be a problem with this approach is if that cable doesn't have an embedded a sync stripper, which, although advertised as a feature, is, as far as I can tell, instead embedded on the optional video amplifier board, which wouldn't be used in this scenario.

In order for this to work, this cable would need to be wired directly to the matrix switcher, with one output going directly to the PVM for 15kHz, and a second output going into the RGB interface to provide RGBHV for the VGA monitor. The PS2 doesn't provide a clean composite sync output without a hardware modification (which makes RGB output full-time RGBS with clean CSync, making this all moot); instead, it only provides composite video and luma as sync for 15kHz modes, and only SoG for 31kHz+ modes.

So, with that setup, when in 15kHz modes, the PVM will display an image because (I assume) it accepts composite video or luma as sync, but the VGA monitor won't because the RGB interface won't accept composite video or luma as sync; and, then, when in 31kHz+ modes, the VGA monitor will display an image, because the Extron RGB will accept RGsB from the console, but the PVM won't because it's ostensibly still configured for external sync, which it isn't receiving.

Of course, all of that means that he would need both monitors running for any games that drop back to 480i for menus and prerendered cutscenes (Gran Turismo 4 comes to mind). I'm not sure whether or not that's a desirable scenario.

Right now I can use this setup:
PS2 SCART RGB -> ArcadeForge's SyncStrike -> Extron RGB Interface -> Extron VGA Matrix Switcher -> VGA monitor

This gives me 480p on my VGA monitor...

As I have a VGA Matrix Switcher with 8 outputs, once I got 480p from PS2, can I do this?:

480p VGA Matrix Switcher Output -> Extron RGB Interface -> SCART -> PVM

This should work, right? And this way I have the PS2 output 480p to VGA monitor and 480i/240p to PVM...

As I mentioned above, I don't think you'd wire the RGB interface to the PVM, unless you're going to use it for 480p as well, or if it doesn't accept composite video or luma.

If your PVM for whatever reason doesn't accept composite video or luma as sync, you can probably use the matrix switcher to duplicate the RGB outputs from the RGB interface. Assuming you're using something like a CrossPoint, with BNC connectors for I/O, (wouldn't be as easy with a VGA matrix switcher, for example) you could do the following:
* Connect output from the PS2 to something like a SyncStrike or another inline sync stripper, and then to the input on the Extron RGB interface
* Connect R, G, B, H, and V from the RGB interface to input 1 on the CrossPoint
* Connect R, G, B outputs on output 1 on the CrossPoint to R, G, B on input 2 on the CrossPoint
* Connect S from the RGB interface to S/H on input 2 on the CrossPoint
Then configure the CrossPoint as follows:
* Video from input 1 to outputs 1 and 2
* Video from input 2 to output 3
Then connect output 2 to your VGA monitor and output 3 to your PVM.

As for your wiring suggestion, generally, PVMs use BNC inputs, so I would just run BNC directly from the CrossPoint to the PVM; I'd only use SCART if the PVM had a SCART input.

Using an Extron rgb interface eliminates any sync related issues. The Ultimarc tri-sync cable is not meant for use with a video amp. The amp is for cga only arcade monitors which often requires a boost for the lower voltage rgb signal you get from consumer hardware. Tri-sync monitors do not require a boost.

The cable works fine with my arcade monitor when connected directly for 15hz. It outputs RGBS which is what the PVM accepts. The interface is required for SOG to convert it to RGBHV for the VGA montor.

[Classicgamer]

WOW! The PS2 seems to be one of the most complicated consoles to setup...

I haven't thought of games that switches from 480p to 480i... This will be an issue with every setup, right? Also with component cables?

It seems the "best" screen for PS2 should be a tri-sync monitor or an HDTV CRT, right?

The PS2 is a little better if you stick with YPbPr component, because it supports all video modes over YPbPr--it's only when you want to use RGB that you need to deal with the format change between RGBS and RGsB--but you still have to deal with dropouts in games that switch video mode.

That generation of consoles in general has a lot of growing pains related to flat-panel displays. The Xbox has games that also switch modes out of 480p (although I believe far fewer), and it wouldn't surprise me if there were examples on the GameCube or Dreamcast that do the same. You can go back one more generation to the PS1, N64, and Saturn, where there were still games that switched between 480i and 240p, but that's still all 15kHz.

I think a tri-sync CRT would work well, but it would need to support RGsB for 480p, and I'm sure some people wouldn't want to sacrifice widescreen.

HD CRTs are generally not a good fit, because they most often don't understand 240p (they'll try to deinterlace it and instead end up introducing combing artifacts), and I don't recall what kind of display lag these sets introduce, if any, nor do I recall if they can survive sync dropouts from HDMI sources in the way older CRTs can survive dropouts from analogue sources. Does anyone else have more info?

So there's no hope for games that switch from 480p to 480i... The only option for those is to accept that the switch will happen, or maybe stick to 480i for those games?

I've read RGB output is better than component for PS2, is that correct?

Are there many games that does this switch from 480p to 480i?

It's no issue. Just spend $15 on an rgb interface. They convert any type of sync to any type of sync making sync a non-issue for any RGB console or monitor.

[nmalinoski]

So there's no hope for games that switch from 480p to 480i... The only option for those is to accept that the switch will happen, or maybe stick to 480i for those games?

Not necessarily. I don't have any experience with HD CRTs, so those may work well, as may an ED CRT if those were ever a thing. Unfortunately, those are still CRTs, and they're not going to last long.

Looking forward, better solutions using HDMI are going to be needed. A couple members here are in the very early stages of developing an internal HDMI mod intended to work like the UltraHDMI for the N64, where scaling and framerate conversion are used to output a perfect 480p/576p/720p/1080p@60Hz video feed, that can survive mode changes without dropping sync, and has only a 1-frame lag penalty. The PS2 supports many more video modes than the N64, so I imagine it won't operate exactly the same way, but the important bit is that it will be designed to survive mode changes.

I think it's also within the realm of possibility to build an external box that takes RGsB, RGBS, and RGBHV from SCART and/or VGA cables and spits out a scaled/framerate-converted over VGA and/or HDMI; someone just needs to do it.

I've read RGB output is better than component for PS2, is that correct?

Are there many games that does this switch from 480p to 480i?

RGB output has generally been regarded as better due to widespread use of crappy component cables. When compared to a quality component cable, like those made by Sony or HD Retrovision, my understanding is that they're indistinguishable, but some have argued that the colors over RGB are still better.

As for games that switch modes, the only ones that I'm aware of that specifically drop from 480p+ to 480i are Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others. That's also glossing over that mode changing between 240p and 480i for gameplay and menus is extremely common in PS2 games, which may not be much of an issue for you, but it's an issue for anyone trying to use a PS2 through a RetroTINK 2X, OSSC, Framemeister, or anything else that performs analog to digital conversion without framerate conversion/scaling.

[nmalinoski]

Using an Extron rgb interface eliminates any sync related issues. The Ultimarc tri-sync cable is not meant for use with a video amp. The amp is for cga only arcade monitors which often requires a boost for the lower voltage rgb signal you get from consumer hardware. Tri-sync monitors do not require a boost.

The cable works fine with my arcade monitor when connected directly for 15hz. It outputs RGBS which is what the PVM accepts. The interface is required for SOG to convert it to RGBHV for the VGA montor.

Could you please provide a link to the specific cable you're talking about? I don't see anything on Ultimarc's website called a "tri-sync cable".

The closest thing is the cable I found, listed as "PlayStation 2/3 to Arcade Monitor/Speaker adapter" on their Ultimarc Playstation 2 Adaptor page and "PSX AV to J-PAC/Speaker Adaptor" on their Console Adaptors store page (I guess they didn't use a spell checker); and that cable is described as including both a video amplifier (which is optional per the store page) and a sync separator circuit, but it's not made clear whether that circuit is embedded in the cable or on the video amp PCB. Is there definitely a sync separator in the cable? That's the only thing that would make an unmodded PS2 (or a PS1, for that matter, but that needs caps/resistors in the cable) work with an Extron RGB interface.

[citrus3000psi]

I did a write up sometime ago on how to get CSYNC all the time out of the PS2. You can also remove SOG as well.


http://www.dansprojects.com/ps2sync.html

[Classicgamer]

Using an Extron rgb interface eliminates any sync related issues. The Ultimarc tri-sync cable is not meant for use with a video amp. The amp is for cga only arcade monitors which often requires a boost for the lower voltage rgb signal you get from consumer hardware. Tri-sync monitors do not require a boost.

The cable works fine with my arcade monitor when connected directly for 15hz. It outputs RGBS which is what the PVM accepts. The interface is required for SOG to convert it to RGBHV for the VGA montor.

Could you please provide a link to the specific cable you're talking about? I don't see anything on Ultimarc's website called a "tri-sync cable".

The closest thing is the cable I found, listed as "PlayStation 2/3 to Arcade Monitor/Speaker adapter" on their Ultimarc Playstation 2 Adaptor page and "PSX AV to J-PAC/Speaker Adaptor" on their Console Adaptors store page (I guess they didn't use a spell checker); and that cable is described as including both a video amplifier (which is optional per the store page) and a sync separator circuit, but it's not made clear whether that circuit is embedded in the cable or on the video amp PCB. Is there definitely a sync separator in the cable? That's the only thing that would make an unmodded PS2 (or a PS1, for that matter, but that needs caps/resistors in the cable) work with an Extron RGB interface.

It's the bottom one for what they describe as "multi frequency monitors":

http://www.ultimarc.com/psx.html

[nmalinoski]

Using an Extron rgb interface eliminates any sync related issues. The Ultimarc tri-sync cable is not meant for use with a video amp. The amp is for cga only arcade monitors which often requires a boost for the lower voltage rgb signal you get from consumer hardware. Tri-sync monitors do not require a boost.

The cable works fine with my arcade monitor when connected directly for 15hz. It outputs RGBS which is what the PVM accepts. The interface is required for SOG to convert it to RGBHV for the VGA montor.

Could you please provide a link to the specific cable you're talking about? I don't see anything on Ultimarc's website called a "tri-sync cable".

The closest thing is the cable I found, listed as "PlayStation 2/3 to Arcade Monitor/Speaker adapter" on their Ultimarc Playstation 2 Adaptor page and "PSX AV to J-PAC/Speaker Adaptor" on their Console Adaptors store page (I guess they didn't use a spell checker); and that cable is described as including both a video amplifier (which is optional per the store page) and a sync separator circuit, but it's not made clear whether that circuit is embedded in the cable or on the video amp PCB. Is there definitely a sync separator in the cable? That's the only thing that would make an unmodded PS2 (or a PS1, for that matter, but that needs caps/resistors in the cable) work with an Extron RGB interface.

It's the bottom one for what they describe as "multi frequency monitors":

http://www.ultimarc.com/psx.html

Thank you. Their website really isn't conducive to sharing information. :/

Cool. So it does have a sync separator embedded in it. That makes it a perfect match for RGB interfaces.

[Classicgamer]

The rgb interface would have taken care of sync seperation even if it didn't have a seperator in the cable. But, for when you don't use the interface, it outputs RGBS.

I just tested Capcom Classics vol 2 in 480p. It works fairly well. The issue you will face though is that games like this switch between 480i and 480p when you go to game select menus. It's not a big deal for me as I use a Tri-sync arcade monitor so I can display 15 or 31khz without changing screens.

You would probably need a splitter to run both screens at the same time. You can then turn on the one you need depending if the game is outputting 480p or 480i for menus.

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

[nmalinoski]

The rgb interface would have taken care of sync seperation even if it didn't have a seperator in the cable. But, for when you don't use the interface, it outputs RGBS.

The RGB interface would only take care of sync separation if the PS2 output a clean sync signal, which, as I explained earlier, it does not--not without a hardware modification, which would render handling the RGsB output with an RGB interface moot. If you feed the RGB interface either the luma or composite video lines directly out the back of the PS2, the RGB interface will ignore the output until you (blindly) put your PS2 software in a 31kHz+ video mode, triggering RGsB output.

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

Do keep in mind that that resolution output setting mainly affects PS3 software, and that its analogue RGB output is limited to 480p; whereas, I believe, the PS2 is capable of 720p and 1080i RGB output. Should be fine if you bypass its analogue output with a good active HDMI->VGA adapter, though.

[Nodoyuna]

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

Do keep in mind that that resolution output setting mainly affects PS3 software, and that its analogue RGB output is limited to 480p; whereas, I believe, the PS2 is capable of 720p and 1080i RGB output. Should be fine if you bypass its analogue output with a good active HDMI->VGA adapter, though.

I'm using PS3 with the Portta HDMI to VGA converter to connect the PS3 to my VGA monitor. PS3 is at 480p output. I want to try a HDMI to DVi adapter/cable and connect the DVi output to an Extron DVi-RGB 200 for VGA conversion... I think it can give better quality than the Portta...

The rgb interface would have taken care of sync seperation even if it didn't have a seperator in the cable. But, for when you don't use the interface, it outputs RGBS.

I just tested Capcom Classics vol 2 in 480p. It works fairly well. The issue you will face though is that games like this switch between 480i and 480p when you go to game select menus. It's not a big deal for me as I use a Tri-sync arcade monitor so I can display 15 or 31khz without changing screens.

You would probably need a splitter to run both screens at the same time. You can then turn on the one you need depending if the game is outputting 480p or 480i for menus.

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

How do you have it wired for your tri-sync monitor? I will be getting an XM29 sometime next year, so I'm interested in this type of setup. If I understand correctly, theres no problem when the game change from 480i to 480p right?

I think it's also within the realm of possibility to build an external box that takes RGsB, RGBS, and RGBHV from SCART and/or VGA cables and spits out a scaled/framerate-converted over VGA and/or HDMI; someone just needs to do it.

I still hope somebody will provide a solution for the PS2, as I've said, something similar to the Dreamcast Toro box would be great

As for games that switch modes, the only ones that I'm aware of that specifically drop from 480p+ to 480i are Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others. That's also glossing over that mode changing between 240p and 480i for gameplay and menus is extremely common in PS2 games, which may not be much of an issue for you, but it's an issue for anyone trying to use a PS2 through a RetroTINK 2X, OSSC, Framemeister, or anything else that performs analog to digital conversion without framerate conversion/scaling.

Switching from 240p to 480i is not a problem if you have a 15KHz screen... The problem is the switching from 480p to 480i, as they need a 15KHz and a 31KHz monitor at the same time if you want to see all the PS2 will display...

I hope this problem won't happen on other consoles from the same generation... I think the Dreamcast don't do this, but I don't know about XboX or Gamecube... It's a weird generation anyway

The PS1 / N64 / Saturn generation switches from 240p to 480i, but that's limited to a 15KHz display capabilities
Before that, I think all is 240p and after the PS2 generation, I think everything is 480p and above...

[Classicgamer]

The rgb interface would have taken care of sync seperation even if it didn't have a seperator in the cable. But, for when you don't use the interface, it outputs RGBS.

The RGB interface would only take care of sync separation if the PS2 output a clean sync signal, which, as I explained earlier, it does not--not without a hardware modification, which would render handling the RGsB output with an RGB interface moot. If you feed the RGB interface either the luma or composite video lines directly out the back of the PS2, the RGB interface will ignore the output until you (blindly) put your PS2 software in a 31kHz+ video mode, triggering RGsB output.

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

Do keep in mind that that resolution output setting mainly affects PS3 software, and that its analogue RGB output is limited to 480p; whereas, I believe, the PS2 is capable of 720p and 1080i RGB output. Should be fine if you bypass its analogue output with a good active HDMI->VGA adapter, though.

My PS2 works fine on both my arcade monitor and my broadcast monitor in 15khz with just a regular $5 scart lead (no sync seperator). It works fine when connected through my RGB interface too (with some dumb adapters to go from scart to BNC and BNC dsub).

The only scenario is does not work fine is in 480p mode unless it is connected through my RGB interface, in which case it works fine.

[Classicgamer]

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

Do keep in mind that that resolution output setting mainly affects PS3 software, and that its analogue RGB output is limited to 480p; whereas, I believe, the PS2 is capable of 720p and 1080i RGB output. Should be fine if you bypass its analogue output with a good active HDMI->VGA adapter, though.

I'm using PS3 with the Portta HDMI to VGA converter to connect the PS3 to my VGA monitor. PS3 is at 480p output. I want to try a HDMI to DVi adapter/cable and connect the DVi output to an Extron DVi-RGB 200 for VGA conversion... I think it can give better quality than the Portta...

The rgb interface would have taken care of sync seperation even if it didn't have a seperator in the cable. But, for when you don't use the interface, it outputs RGBS.

I just tested Capcom Classics vol 2 in 480p. It works fairly well. The issue you will face though is that games like this switch between 480i and 480p when you go to game select menus. It's not a big deal for me as I use a Tri-sync arcade monitor so I can display 15 or 31khz without changing screens.

You would probably need a splitter to run both screens at the same time. You can then turn on the one you need depending if the game is outputting 480p or 480i for menus.

It's all very odd the way it works. I much prefer the PS3 set-up where you select the res in the main menu and then leave it.

How do you have it wired for your tri-sync monitor? I will be getting an XM29 sometime next year, so I'm interested in this type of setup. If I understand correctly, theres no problem when the game change from 480i to 480p right?

I think it's also within the realm of possibility to build an external box that takes RGsB, RGBS, and RGBHV from SCART and/or VGA cables and spits out a scaled/framerate-converted over VGA and/or HDMI; someone just needs to do it.

I still hope somebody will provide a solution for the PS2, as I've said, something similar to the Dreamcast Toro box would be great

As for games that switch modes, the only ones that I'm aware of that specifically drop from 480p+ to 480i are Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy, but that doesn't mean that there aren't others. That's also glossing over that mode changing between 240p and 480i for gameplay and menus is extremely common in PS2 games, which may not be much of an issue for you, but it's an issue for anyone trying to use a PS2 through a RetroTINK 2X, OSSC, Framemeister, or anything else that performs analog to digital conversion without framerate conversion/scaling.

Switching from 240p to 480i is not a problem if you have a 15KHz screen... The problem is the switching from 480p to 480i, as they need a 15KHz and a 31KHz monitor at the same time if you want to see all the PS2 will display...

I hope this problem won't happen on other consoles from the same generation... I think the Dreamcast don't do this, but I don't know about XboX or Gamecube... It's a weird generation anyway

The PS1 / N64 / Saturn generation switches from 240p to 480i, but that's limited to a 15KHz display capabilities
Before that, I think all is 240p and after the PS2 generation, I think everything is 480p and above...

I don't need any converter to use my PS3 on my arcade monitor in 480p. I use an HDMI to DVI cable with a dvi to vga adapter.

Here is Sega Ralley on the PS3 running in 480p analog RGB:



The PS3 is capable of outputting analog rgb on it's own. You need to select rgb and 480p in the settings.

I only tried a few 480p games on the PS2 so far but Capcom classics definately switches between 15 and 31khz mid game.

I suspect it is common enough to be a problem on any monitor that can't display both. The PS2 menu is 480i when you turn it on for one. Even if there is a way to make the menu progressive scan, you would still have to deal with 480i only games unless you ran everything through an upscaler.

So, if you plan to use two monitors instead of one that can display both, I would buy a vga splitter to make it slightly less annoying.

Or snap up one of the last tri-sync arcade monitors from Happ while they are on sale.