Under Defeat for DC

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:04 pm

Yeah, I die a lot, with plenty of bombs in stock.

I think I only used one bomb so far, and that was just to see what it looked like.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:00 pm

I find myself having to bomb a lot, but the bomb stock remaining bonus is pretty substantial, so it's better not to do so if you can help it. I'm not sure though, it may be necessary to bomb at some points in order to get the 100% destruction bonus. Right now I can only get to stage 4 by doing a fair bit of bombing - maybe I should try disabling the bomb button, forcing myself to deal with the patterns.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:43 pm

Ahh, there's no shame in bombing...

I am also not regret.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:04 pm

Frogacuda wrote:http://www.got-next.com/features_read.php?id=342

Got-Next review. It has the distinct honor of being the first game to recieve 5 stars from yours truly.

Nice review, but UD is clearly set later than WWII. Just look at the helicopters, guided missiles and the way the tanks look. There was but one helicopter used in WWII, the German Flettner FL 282, and that was nowhere near as sophisticated as the ones you see in Under Defeat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_Fl_282

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:06 pm

Kind of the same way that gigantic transforming robots appeared in Strikers 1945.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:07 pm

But in Strikers there was stuff from WWII, while everything in UD is from a later period.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:09 pm

iatneH wrote:Kind of the same way that gigantic transforming robots appeared in Strikers 1945.

Well, that's explained by the fact that aliens were in control of that technology and pulled a Transformers-type robots-in-disguise deal.

Under Defeat takes place in an alternate reality (the recorded year is something like 800 when the game takes place), so it ends up being a bit of a mix in terms of technology.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:16 pm

This would have made a cool cover, too:

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:11 am

So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX? I haven't gotten my Federal Tax Return yet, and getting this game would bring me down close to $100.

It definately looks great, almost like this arcade game from Tsunami Visual:

http://www.tsunamivisual.com/prd_AS.html

Played it at Dave & Busters last month, and loved it.

benj · Post by **benj** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:27 am

Ceph wrote:This would have made a cool cover, too:

Nah, I prefer cute girls.

it290 · Post by **it290** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:30 am

So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX? I haven't gotten my Federal Tax Return yet, and getting this game would bring me down close to $100.

Hecks yeah.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:12 am

dave4shmups wrote:So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX?

Definitely!!! You won't be disappointed with your purchase, it will be $66.70 well spent.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:17 am

Ceph wrote:
Frogacuda wrote:http://www.got-next.com/features_read.php?id=342

Got-Next review. It has the distinct honor of being the first game to recieve 5 stars from yours truly.
Nice review, but UD is clearly set later than WWII. Just look at the helicopters, guided missiles and the way the tanks look. There was but one helicopter used in WWII, the German Flettner FL 282, and that was nowhere near as sophisticated as the ones you see in Under Defeat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_Fl_282

Lol, I never said it was set in WWII, I said it was set in an alternate reality resembling the WWII era. There's some very 1940s looking vehicle designs, black and white photography, big prop plane bombers, as well as the SS looking uniforms, and other retro stylizings. Some of the stuff (like the option pods) is pure fantasy, so alternate-reality retro is about as accurate as I can get.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:28 am

dave4shmups wrote:So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX?

Without hesitation.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:36 am

iatneH wrote:Yeah, I die a lot, with plenty of bombs in stock.

I think I only used one bomb so far, and that was just to see what it looked like.

Using bombs turns the rank down.

Alske · Post by **Alske** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:37 am

dave4shmups wrote:So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX? I haven't gotten my Federal Tax Return yet, and getting this game would bring me down close to $100.

It definately looks great, almost like this arcade game from Tsunami Visual:

http://www.tsunamivisual.com/prd_AS.html

Played it at Dave & Busters last month, and loved it.

Not in the slightest.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:40 am

Alske wrote:
dave4shmups wrote:So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX? I haven't gotten my Federal Tax Return yet, and getting this game would bring me down close to $100.

It definately looks great, almost like this arcade game from Tsunami Visual:

http://www.tsunamivisual.com/prd_AS.html

Played it at Dave & Busters last month, and loved it.
Not in the slightest.

Not in the slightest as in, not worth my money? Or as in, not like Air Strike?

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:25 am

dave4shmups wrote:So is this game REALLY worth my $66.70, from NCSX? I haven't gotten my Federal Tax Return yet, and getting this game would bring me down close to $100.

It definately looks great, almost like this arcade game from Tsunami Visual:

http://www.tsunamivisual.com/prd_AS.html

Played it at Dave & Busters last month, and loved it.

It kind of depends what sort of game you like

Read reviews, see if it suits your style (and there are three posted now from members of this community alone).

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:21 am

It looks like the type of game that I'd like, although, since I don't live in Japan, I can't try it out. So I placed my order with NCSX. I generally love helicopter shmups, and am amazed at the graphics, so here's hoping it's worth it!

neoalphazero · Post by **neoalphazero** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:23 am

dave4shmups wrote:It looks like the type of game that I'd like, although, since I don't live in Japan, I can't try it out. So I placed my order with NCSX. I generally love helicopter shmups, and am amazed at the graphics, so here's hoping it's worth it!

You will, the limited use of rotation coupled with the gun pod power ups makes the game very playable. I never feel frustrated when I die, it feels like you have everything you need much like Border Down. *-neo

subcons · Post by **subcons** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:40 am

Alske wrote:Not in the slightest.

Why don't you like it? It's fine that you don't, but I have to know why. And did you like Border Down?

I'm honestly not a big fan of BD. UD I'm loving in every way though.

Alske · Post by **Alske** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:33 am

subcons wrote:
Alske wrote:Not in the slightest.
Why don't you like it? It's fine that you don't, but I have to know why. And did you like Border Down?

I'm honestly not a big fan of BD. UD I'm loving in every way though.

Hate hate hate hate hated Border Down.

Here's my list of things I hate about Under Defeat: The stupid slanted perspective makes dodging frustrating. I don't like how items don't come down past the halfway point on the screen, or how they keep changing what type they are. The rotating isn't nearly as natural as it was in Zero Gunner 1 or 2. I hate how you have to charge the options by letting off of the fire button. I find the copious amounts of bombs in the game to be indicative of an amazingly uneven difficulty curve.

In short, playing this game infuriates me an amazingly high level.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:50 am

Alske wrote:Here's my list of things I hate about Under Defeat: The stupid slanted perspective makes dodging frustrating.

There's no reason this should present a problem for this reason, since every firing pattern in UD is linear. There are no curved projectile patterns except for an occasional missle and those are easily dispensed with. So if you can follow a straight line, you can follow a straight line. Persepective shouldn't affect this.

I don't like how items don't come down past the halfway point on the screen, or how they keep changing what type they are.

Then don't pick them up so eagerly. It's not like you need them to power up. They're mostly just for bonus points so they should present some slight challenge. Besides, this is an old, old convention.

The rotating isn't nearly as natural as it was in Zero Gunner 1 or 2.

Well rotating was automatic in ZG1, but if anything, UD's is simpler than ZG2. And in reverse mode, decidedly similar in execution.

I hate how you have to charge the options by letting off of the fire button.

Then why wouldn't you find every charge shot in every shooter frustrating. They all force you to stop firing for a moment to save up a more powerful blast. What a stupid thing to be bothered by.

Alske · Post by **Alske** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:28 am

Frogacuda wrote:
Alske wrote:Here's my list of things I hate about Under Defeat: The stupid slanted perspective makes dodging frustrating.
There's no reason this should present a problem for this reason, since every firing pattern in UD is linear. There are no curved projectile patterns except for an occasional missle and those are easily dispensed with. So if you can follow a straight line, you can follow a straight line. Persepective shouldn't affect this.

It's more that your ship doesn't move in at a solid pace, and the fact that you don't have the whole screen to move about in.

I don't like how items don't come down past the halfway point on the screen, or how they keep changing what type they are.
Then don't pick them up so eagerly. It's not like you need them to power up. They're mostly just for bonus points so they should present some slight challenge. Besides, this is an old, old convention.

It's a stupid convention. It was retarded in Twin-Bee and it's retarded here. I can cope with this, but the changing is dumb.

The rotating isn't nearly as natural as it was in Zero Gunner 1 or 2.
Well rotating was automatic in ZG1, but if anything, UD's is simpler than ZG2. And in reverse mode, decidedly similar in execution.

Except for that whole "letting off the fire button" thing. And being able to make fine adjustments to your trajectory easier.

I hate how you have to charge the options by letting off of the fire button.
Then why wouldn't you find every charge shot in every shooter frustrating. They all force you to stop firing for a moment to save up a more powerful blast. What a stupid thing to be bothered by.

I do hate charge shots in shooters. What a stupid thing to like.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:30 am

Wow, this thread's heating up!

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:38 am

i propose a knife fight

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:44 am

I know, message board threads are like a talk show sometimes-- These systems need virtual folding chairs that you can throw!

Anyway-- charge shots: it's a risk, like the double ship in Galaga-- building up a charge leaves the player open to enemy fire, but pays off if pulled off correctly. Usually, the payoff is proportional to the risk.

Also, using the vulcan in a V-formation can do some major damage! =)

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:29 am

louisg wrote:I know, message board threads are like a talk show sometimes-- These systems need virtual folding chairs that you can throw!

Anyway-- charge shots: it's a risk, like the double ship in Galaga-- building up a charge leaves the player open to enemy fire, but pays off if pulled off correctly. Usually, the payoff is proportional to the risk.

Also, using the vulcan in a V-formation can do some major damage! =)

Yeah, any quality shooter gives you a reason to not just glue down the fire button. There's a good reason the items stay at the top of the screen as well, also: It's a risk/reward thing. To have them just be delivered to the player would lessen the game's already somewhat shallow scoring depth.

*throws folding chair @ Alske*

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:45 am

Ceph wrote:This would have made a cool cover, too:

Owned.

Why, the hell, did they not use this cover instead...

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:07 am

I need to say this is the first game where I've really enjoyed the 'into-the-screen' perspective and felt it worked very well.

Obvsiouly this means as you travel up the screen you seem to slow slightly, but also bullets speed up as they travel down the screen (brilliant!)

What I love about this is you can see the patterns coming and often plant your attack before the wave has actually hit instead of of forced-panic!

Anyway @ Dave4shmups--if you like old school shmups (IE Toaplan, Raiden, etc.) you should't hesitate to buy this, especially since it will be gone soon.