Questions about the Mimo Genius II

[Phatnightmares]

Hello everyone,
I was able to get my hands on a Mimo Genius II to review for my YouTube channel, however I have a few questions that I'd love to hear some feedback on.

1) I was trying to download the Data Sheet and the Instruction Manual from the Mimo Enterprises website, but the link appears to be broken. Would anyone be able to share the Data Sheet and Instruction Manual? If not, I could always ask Mimo, but I figured I'd ask here first.

2) I believe the person I got this from had adjusted the settings prior to handing it over to me, however my image tends to have a lot of breaks in it. I'm sure the settings vary from monitor to monitor, but as long as I have a general direction on what some ideal settings are, I can work around with that. Would someone be able to share their input settings?

3) The arcade cabinet 6 pin rgb cable that comes with the Mimo Genius II is interesting. I dug a little deep on the internet and was able to look at this website as a possible reference:

http://www.ingegnerando.it/technology/mame/monitor.html

My wiring, soldering, and Italian-reading skills are minimal at best, but from what I understand it looks like there's a way to have the 6 pin cable connect to a SCART head. Would it be possible to have this cable made to output RGBS instead of RGBHV?

4) For games that shift resolutions from 480p to 480i during their cutscenes and menus (such as Mega Man X8 and Gran Turismo 4 for Playstation 2), the Mimo Genius II keeps automatically adjusting or resetting any input settings. Is there a way to turn this feature off?

Thanks a lot!

[noonan2678]

I believe that I have a print out of the manual. I'm in the process of moving, so might be a bit before I can dig it up and scan it. If you send me a PM in a couple of weeks, I'll make a point to do it for you.

[Xer Xian]

They sent me the manual but it's written in italian, don't know if they have one available in english?

Pressing AUTO ADJUST+SEL.MONITOR OUT for a few seconds should restore the unit to factory settings.

The only mention in the manual of sync signal types pertains to inputs, so you might be stuck with separate sync on the output. Using the 6-pin connector shouldn't change a thing, you'd likely still have to fit a small circuit in the cable to merge the sync signals (as shown in the webpage you linked to).

The Genius II is still quite expensive (€260 + vat + shipping), has anyone ever measured its latency with a reliable method? Today a lower latency would be the only reason to buy this instead of a cheaper Tvone (which adds 2 frames). Fudoh found that it downscales from 480p by discarding every other line, so it might add very little lag if it doesn't buffer every signal by design (which it very well might).

[Fudoh]

Running the GII's output through an Extron box for sync conversion was the most convenient way to connect it. I think you CAN get RGBs from the Molex output, but it's a hassle and I have no idea which levels it's using, so just using the VGA type connector and take it from there was the easiest.

Compared to other down scaling solutions (well, back then) the GII offers an exceptional sharp output. Not only because it drops every other line vertically, but also because it does a similar thing horizontally, where the other solutions just output 720x240p.

[Phatnightmares]

I believe that I have a print out of the manual. I'm in the process of moving, so might be a bit before I can dig it up and scan it. If you send me a PM in a couple of weeks, I'll make a point to do it for you.

Hopefully if you still remember, I will gladly send you a PM soon as a reminder.

[Phatnightmares]

They sent me the manual but it's written in italian, don't know if they have one available in english?

Pressing AUTO ADJUST+SEL.MONITOR OUT for a few seconds should restore the unit to factory settings.

The only mention in the manual of sync signal types pertains to inputs, so you might be stuck with separate sync on the output. Using the 6-pin connector shouldn't change a thing, you'd likely still have to fit a small circuit in the cable to merge the sync signals (as shown in the webpage you linked to).

The Genius II is still quite expensive (€260 + vat + shipping), has anyone ever measured its latency with a reliable method? Today a lower latency would be the only reason to buy this instead of a cheaper Tvone (which adds 2 frames). Fudoh found that it downscales from 480p by discarding every other line, so it might add very little lag if it doesn't buffer every signal by design (which it very well might).

I tried pressing the Auto Adjust + Sel. Monitor Out combo to factory reset, but it doesn't seem to work. What happens is the MGII prioritizes one option, then jumps to the next input selected. So in this case, it would auto adjust the screen, and then change the output resolution.

I was just curious to get the most out of the 6 pin arcade plug that came with it. If there could be a way to output RGBS, I suppose it could eliminate the use of a sync processor, such as the Extron RGB 203 Rxi. If I knew more about solder and circuitry, I'd sit down and try to figure it out, but for now the best I can do is share the website for someone who would be able to figure it out.

AFAIK, I haven't experienced any lag. But then again, I haven't sat down and tested lag, so I can only speak from gameplay.

[Phatnightmares]

Running the GII's output through an Extron box for sync conversion was the most convenient way to connect it. I think you CAN get RGBs from the Molex output, but it's a hassle and I have no idea which levels it's using, so just using the VGA type connector and take it from there was the easiest.

Compared to other down scaling solutions (well, back then) the GII offers an exceptional sharp output. Not only because it drops every other line vertically, but also because it does a similar thing horizontally, where the other solutions just output 720x240p.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. For the sake of simplicity, passing the RGBHV signal through an Extron RGB sync processor is the way to go.

I was able to sit down and mess around the settings for a bit. Here are my results:

I realized that the Mimo Genius II is not a simple plug and play unit as the Extron Emotia series of downscalers.
With this in mind, it's important to note that adjusting the settings are saved in the MGII, regardless of using the auto adjust feature, so it's important to record any settings you may have before making any adjustments. I was given this unit from someone who had previously adjusted the unit and it had some settings that were off. Lucky for me, I don't think it was too complex to figure out, it just required a little patience.
I had a PS3 outputting via the Playstation 2 Linux cable while using the "AV Multi / SCART" option to force the RGB signal and at 480p resolution. I made sure the input resolution on the MGII read as 640 x 480. The image looked very clean and crisp, however I noticed a lot of horizontal tearing on the screen when the game's image shifted up and down. So I thought, perhaps it might be the Playstation 3 acting up. So I tried the Playstation 2 on 480p and it gave me the same results.
I was able to turn off the auto adjust option from the MGII's OSD. It's one of the last menu options where it read auto, so the settings don't change when the resolution changes. I'd like to eventually try out my Dreamcast using the Toro Box to see if I experience more screen tearing.

Do or did you experience any tearing on your results?

[Fudoh]

Zero tearing on my setup back then. It's been five years now, since I had a Genius II on hand. I really just recall not using the manual controls at all. It was completely fine with the auto setup (but as you said, underlying manual settings can affect this).

My source was a 360 connected through VGA. I remember using the GII quite some time. I would have spotted any kind of tearing right away.

[Phatnightmares]

Zero tearing on my setup back then. It's been five years now, since I had a Genius II on hand. I really just recall not using the manual controls at all. It was completely fine with the auto setup (but as you said, underlying manual settings can affect this).

My source was a 360 connected through VGA. I remember using the GII quite some time. I would have spotted any kind of tearing right away.

I have an update about the tearing!

I noticed that the tearing issue wasn't going away, however I decided to hook up my PS3 to my LCD monitor via HDMI to double check if I was seeing the tearing in HD. To my surprise, it seems that the issue was just the PS3. For some reason, I was getting very slight ghosting where the tearing would appear on my BVM D24. I was able to dig out my Dreamcast last night and also confirmed that the tearing was just due to the PS3. I cannot explain whether it's the PS2 Linux cable that I'm using or if it's the PS3, but nonetheless it seems to be a problem with the PS3.

I noticed something interesting that I didn't see in the PS3 that I saw in the Dreamcast. I hooked up my Dreamcast to the MGII via the Toro Box's VGA out. The scanlines are extremely crisp and the image is very solid, but unfortunately I noticed that there a slight flashes of color distortion going from very bright colors to darker colors and vice versa. It only appears for a split second, but it's enough to raise an eyebrow as to wondering why it happens.

I confirmed that it is not the Dreamcast, because I tried this with 2 different Dreamcasts. Perhaps this might be a Toro Box issue? I'll have to test the color splashing out more consoles like the OG Xbox and the Gamecube.

[orange808]

Zero tearing on my setup back then. It's been five years now, since I had a Genius II on hand. I really just recall not using the manual controls at all. It was completely fine with the auto setup (but as you said, underlying manual settings can affect this).

My source was a 360 connected through VGA. I remember using the GII quite some time. I would have spotted any kind of tearing right away.

I have an update about the tearing!

I noticed that the tearing issue wasn't going away, however I decided to hook up my PS3 to my LCD monitor via HDMI to double check if I was seeing the tearing in HD. To my surprise, it seems that the issue was just the PS3. For some reason, I was getting very slight ghosting where the tearing would appear on my BVM D24. I was able to dig out my Dreamcast last night and also confirmed that the tearing was just due to the PS3. I cannot explain whether it's the PS2 Linux cable that I'm using or if it's the PS3, but nonetheless it seems to be a problem with the PS3.

I noticed something interesting that I didn't see in the PS3 that I saw in the Dreamcast. I hooked up my Dreamcast to the MGII via the Toro Box's VGA out. The scanlines are extremely crisp and the image is very solid, but unfortunately I noticed that there a slight flashes of color distortion going from very bright colors to darker colors and vice versa. It only appears for a split second, but it's enough to raise an eyebrow as to wondering why it happens.

I confirmed that it is not the Dreamcast, because I tried this with 2 different Dreamcasts. Perhaps this might be a Toro Box issue? I'll have to test the color splashing out more consoles like the OG Xbox and the Gamecube.

Please share your results with other consoles. I heard some things about the Dreamcast not working properly with another video processor machine and I suspect the Toro could be responsible.

[svensonson]

Running the GII's output through an Extron box for sync conversion was the most convenient way to connect it. I think you CAN get RGBs from the Molex output, but it's a hassle and I have no idea which levels it's using, so just using the VGA type connector and take it from there was the easiest.

Compared to other down scaling solutions (well, back then) the GII offers an exceptional sharp output. Not only because it drops every other line vertically, but also because it does a similar thing horizontally, where the other solutions just output 720x240p.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. For the sake of simplicity, passing the RGBHV signal through an Extron RGB sync processor is the way to go.

I was able to sit down and mess around the settings for a bit. Here are my results:

I realized that the Mimo Genius II is not a simple plug and play unit as the Extron Emotia series of downscalers.
With this in mind, it's important to note that adjusting the settings are saved in the MGII, regardless of using the auto adjust feature, so it's important to record any settings you may have before making any adjustments. I was given this unit from someone who had previously adjusted the unit and it had some settings that were off. Lucky for me, I don't think it was too complex to figure out, it just required a little patience.
I had a PS3 outputting via the Playstation 2 Linux cable while using the "AV Multi / SCART" option to force the RGB signal and at 480p resolution. I made sure the input resolution on the MGII read as 640 x 480. The image looked very clean and crisp, however I noticed a lot of horizontal tearing on the screen when the game's image shifted up and down. So I thought, perhaps it might be the Playstation 3 acting up. So I tried the Playstation 2 on 480p and it gave me the same results.
I was able to turn off the auto adjust option from the MGII's OSD. It's one of the last menu options where it read auto, so the settings don't change when the resolution changes. I'd like to eventually try out my Dreamcast using the Toro Box to see if I experience more screen tearing.

Do or did you experience any tearing on your results?

Not sure why you are using a linux vga cable instead of a proper shielded component cable for the ps3. such as monster cable, original sony or one made by these retro cable shops out there.

[Phatnightmares]

Zero tearing on my setup back then. It's been five years now, since I had a Genius II on hand. I really just recall not using the manual controls at all. It was completely fine with the auto setup (but as you said, underlying manual settings can affect this).

My source was a 360 connected through VGA. I remember using the GII quite some time. I would have spotted any kind of tearing right away.

I have an update about the tearing!

I noticed that the tearing issue wasn't going away, however I decided to hook up my PS3 to my LCD monitor via HDMI to double check if I was seeing the tearing in HD. To my surprise, it seems that the issue was just the PS3. For some reason, I was getting very slight ghosting where the tearing would appear on my BVM D24. I was able to dig out my Dreamcast last night and also confirmed that the tearing was just due to the PS3. I cannot explain whether it's the PS2 Linux cable that I'm using or if it's the PS3, but nonetheless it seems to be a problem with the PS3.

I noticed something interesting that I didn't see in the PS3 that I saw in the Dreamcast. I hooked up my Dreamcast to the MGII via the Toro Box's VGA out. The scanlines are extremely crisp and the image is very solid, but unfortunately I noticed that there a slight flashes of color distortion going from very bright colors to darker colors and vice versa. It only appears for a split second, but it's enough to raise an eyebrow as to wondering why it happens.

I confirmed that it is not the Dreamcast, because I tried this with 2 different Dreamcasts. Perhaps this might be a Toro Box issue? I'll have to test the color splashing out more consoles like the OG Xbox and the Gamecube.

Please share your results with other consoles. I heard some things about the Dreamcast not working properly with another video processor machine and I suspect the Toro could be responsible.

After doing a review on the Mimo Genius II, I can confirm that the Toro box works well with the MGII. The Toro box performed exceptionally well when I played Gigawing on it. The Playstation 3 had the tearing issue because the settings were not set correctly on the MGII. The tearing has disappeared since. I haven't tested other consoles, but one can expect similar results.

[Phatnightmares]

Running the GII's output through an Extron box for sync conversion was the most convenient way to connect it. I think you CAN get RGBs from the Molex output, but it's a hassle and I have no idea which levels it's using, so just using the VGA type connector and take it from there was the easiest.

Compared to other down scaling solutions (well, back then) the GII offers an exceptional sharp output. Not only because it drops every other line vertically, but also because it does a similar thing horizontally, where the other solutions just output 720x240p.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. For the sake of simplicity, passing the RGBHV signal through an Extron RGB sync processor is the way to go.

I was able to sit down and mess around the settings for a bit. Here are my results:

I realized that the Mimo Genius II is not a simple plug and play unit as the Extron Emotia series of downscalers.
With this in mind, it's important to note that adjusting the settings are saved in the MGII, regardless of using the auto adjust feature, so it's important to record any settings you may have before making any adjustments. I was given this unit from someone who had previously adjusted the unit and it had some settings that were off. Lucky for me, I don't think it was too complex to figure out, it just required a little patience.
I had a PS3 outputting via the Playstation 2 Linux cable while using the "AV Multi / SCART" option to force the RGB signal and at 480p resolution. I made sure the input resolution on the MGII read as 640 x 480. The image looked very clean and crisp, however I noticed a lot of horizontal tearing on the screen when the game's image shifted up and down. So I thought, perhaps it might be the Playstation 3 acting up. So I tried the Playstation 2 on 480p and it gave me the same results.
I was able to turn off the auto adjust option from the MGII's OSD. It's one of the last menu options where it read auto, so the settings don't change when the resolution changes. I'd like to eventually try out my Dreamcast using the Toro Box to see if I experience more screen tearing.

Do or did you experience any tearing on your results?

Not sure why you are using a linux vga cable instead of a proper shielded component cable for the ps3. such as monster cable, original sony or one made by these retro cable shops out there.

I can confirm that when I was experiencing the tearing on the Playstation 3, I had used other cables such as the official Playstation 2 component cables and both C-Sync/Sync-on-Luma Playstation SCART cables and was still experiencing the same tearing effect that I was experiencing while using the Linux Kit VGA cable. The Linux Kit VGA is of the same build as the component cables made by Sony, so I can't say that the VGA cable was or ever will be at fault here.

[Phatnightmares]

After some careful reading and analysis, I was able to come up with a review for the Mimo Genius II. This is nowhere near as elaborate and thorough as Fudoh's review, but I felt the need to record and document this since no one else had done it on YouTube.

Here's the link the my review:
https://youtu.be/GS-o9bgJFmY

[Fudoh]

Just watching your older downscaling videos. You probably know this by now (or don't need it any longer), but to get VGA into the iScan for downscaling you need to sync convert RGBHV to RGBS, which the iScan will happily accept. Your Extron interface can do this.

[Fudoh]

And just finished watching your Genius II video. Nice video! Great pace, really. Not rushed in any way and with attention to small details.

The problem with the discoloration on video transitions is likely caused by some kind of auto gain feature. I could imagine that if you attenuate your signals before going into the Mimo, this COULD solve it. On a VGA signal you can do this using another Extron interface. Some have the dials on front like yours, others have a simple three-position switch on the back to choose the output levels.

The Mimo actually throws out every other line. There's no averaging happening. The Emotia will average two adjacent lines to get one 240p line. On your video you already had it tweaked using the Extron up front. By default the Emotia starts with lines 2+3 (well at least the Super Emotia does. The Super GX does not, so it does not need the Extron. I can't remember about the original (non-Super) Emotia).

Very much looking forward to one more video in the series featuring a TVOne Corio2 processor! With these being available starting somewhere around $50 people are rushing towards these, but they're not as plug'n play as an Emotia.

[Xer Xian]

I watched it too. Your italian reading skills are actually better than the average native english speaker's

Regarding the slight cut-off of the image, if haven't already you could try playing with the 'Fase verticale' setting. It might also cure the horizontal shift with the PS3 (leaving a few blank scanlines at the bottom).

A measurement of the added latency is a significant omission imho. After some fiddling, Corio2 machines output a very solid 240p via both RGB (any sync) and component, and some accept DVI-D too - but they add between 25 and 34ms of lag. That's ok in most situations but still, considering the specific task, lag could be way lower (I think the Genius II downscaling method could add little to no lag - in theory).

[Fudoh]

I think the Genius II downscaling method could add little to no lag in theory

it has likely got a rolling lag, ranging between zero and one frame of lag, due to the framerate conversion in case the source isn't identical to the output refresh rate.

[Fudoh]

PS: I confirmed with MIMO. They have about a dozen of Genius II units left in stock (at this moment) and won't produce any more after that. Their minimum quantity for another order would be 1,000 units and it's not worth it considering today's arcade scene and competing products (on the upscaler side).

[orange808]

it has likely got a rolling lag, ranging between zero and one frame of lag, due to the framerate conversion in case the source isn't identical to the output refresh rate.

Does the Genius II have a frame lock option, a user selectable refresh rate adjustment, or does it always output ~60Hz?

(Given the amount of arcade PCB that use odd refresh rates, I always assumed the machine would be frame locked.)

[Fudoh]

Does the Genius II have a frame lock option, a user selectable refresh rate adjustment, or does it always output ~60Hz?

I don't recall, but I don't think so.

(Given the amount of arcade PCB that use odd refresh rates, I always assumed the machine would be frame locked.)

what's the point? (asking from their perspective, not from ours). Obviously the main feature selling point was upscaling for HDMI replacement displays and here you don't exactly make yourself any friends if you create a upscaler that doesn't output a very compatible timing.

[orange808]

(Given the amount of arcade PCB that use odd refresh rates, I always assumed the machine would be frame locked.)

what's the point? (asking from their perspective, not from ours). Obviously the main feature selling point was upscaling for HDMI replacement displays and here you don't exactly make yourself any friends if you create a upscaler that doesn't output a very compatible timing.

Agreed.

From their perspective, that's true.

Also, from an arcade amusements vendor's perspective, getting an image on screen is good enough. The machine just has to work well enough to keep the quarters coming in. It's about getting machines to function and keep them going for as little money as possible.

All true.

The positive for frame rate conversion can be good for all of us. It should make it "just work". That's definitely a positive.

On the other hand...

** And, I apologise in advance if I sound grumpy here. I'm not flaming or trying to be mean or nasty. **

We aren't arcade vendors. We care what it looks like. Also, the Genius II is pretty expensive!

If the machine will not provide buttery smooth frame locked scrolling, people that visit this forum are going to want to know about it. That's even more true when we consider how expensive the Genius II is.

So, it makes sense for the hardware manufacturer and the amusements vendor (target customer for the Genius II), but glitched frame rates could be a concern for a picky console enthusiast that wants great downscaling.

[parodius]

A bit late but here's a scan of my English manual that I just did :

Spoiler

http://parodius.free.fr/docs/MimoGenius2EngManual.pdf

It does say that the input is converted to a 60hz output.

[Lawfer]

So this won't do 320x240? The lowest that is listed is 640x240.

[Phatnightmares]

Just watching your older downscaling videos. You probably know this by now (or don't need it any longer), but to get VGA into the iScan for downscaling you need to sync convert RGBHV to RGBS, which the iScan will happily accept. Your Extron interface can do this.

I noticed the iScan HD+ can do all of this when I made my review a while back. It's nice to have other sync processing alternatives.

[Phatnightmares]

And just finished watching your Genius II video. Nice video! Great pace, really. Not rushed in any way and with attention to small details.

The problem with the discoloration on video transitions is likely caused by some kind of auto gain feature. I could imagine that if you attenuate your signals before going into the Mimo, this COULD solve it. On a VGA signal you can do this using another Extron interface. Some have the dials on front like yours, others have a simple three-position switch on the back to choose the output levels.

Wow thanks! Your feedback means a lot to me. Truthfully, I was inspired to create this review after reading your review and seeing what a powerful downscaler this really is.

That makes sense. I suppose this could have been due to one of the auto settings being turned off. I didn't think to pass it through any Extron devices either. I think it's safe to say that the color shift is not too noticeable, and only lasts for about a second.

[Phatnightmares]

Very much looking forward to one more video in the series featuring a TVOne Corio2 processor! With these being available starting somewhere around $50 people are rushing towards these, but they're not as plug'n play as an Emotia.

You read my mind! I plan on doing a video about the Corio2 C2-2200 sometime soon. Here's a sample of what it can do!

[Lawfer]

Comparison, Mega Man X SNES Version running on a SNES 1CHIP-01:

https://i.imgur.com/i6If7px.jpg

Note that the colors are not actually like that, it's just my camera who insist on taking shots of my CRT with the flash, so that washed out the colors in the picture.

[Fudoh]

the line count on the MMX screenshot above is a little too high - maybe by 1 or 2. You can count the pixel lines on both screenshots. Might be adjustable though on the TVOne.

[Phatnightmares]

the line count on the MMX screenshot above is a little too high - maybe by 1 or 2. You can count the pixel lines on both screenshots. Might be adjustable though on the TVOne.

Heh, good catch. The resolution is set at 720 x 240, which is the settings that the person who sold it to me set. I believe it's Dochartaigh from our forums who sold it to me. I'll have to look into the settings saved on my unit and then customize the resolution accordingly.