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 Post subject: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:05 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 128
Besides Neo Geo MVS, is there a type/format of arcade PCB for shmups that's easiest to run?


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:51 pm 


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Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 266
Location: Portugal
If you mean "cartridge" type PCB's that can be swaped on a motherboard, then you have Capcom CPS2 that has a much better library (in my opinion, of course) of shmups.

A few titles:

-Dimahoo
-Progear No Arashi
-19xx and 1944
-Gigawing
-Mars Matrix

And the rest of the library also has superb fighting games and brawlers, some of Arcade's finest 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:10 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 128
I wasn't thinking cartridge only but that's great, I didn't realize CPS2 games were designed that way. From what I'm reading CPS and CPS3 games function in a similar way.

Is there a good consolized unit for any of these? It looks like the DARKSOFT CPS2 Multi Kit could be one.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:18 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 336
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
shmupsrocks wrote:
I wasn't thinking cartridge only but that's great, I didn't realize CPS2 games were designed that way. From what I'm reading CPS and CPS3 games function in a similar way.

Is there a good consolized unit for any of these? It looks like the DARKSOFT CPS2 Multi Kit could be one.


While not exactly what you're asking. The Home Arcade Supergun (HAS) does an excellent job of adapting any jamma arcade pcb for use in an RGBS capable A/V setup. I bought one specifically to use with the CPS2 as my first arcade PCB.

The CPS2 is well contained, so you just pop the HAS on the end and plug in a neo geo controller to easily achieve a 4-button home setup. There are good PS3/X360 adapters to HAS-compatible DB15 controller ports if you want to easily jump to 6 button support without assembling your own DB15 compatible stick.
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    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
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      • SSDS3
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    • 3DO
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      • CPS2
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:31 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 128
Is it as easy as that with any JAMMA arcade PCB? I was reading about a Sega arcade shmup that required a long list of stuff along with the PCB that scared me off. Can't remember if it was JAMMA.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:44 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
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Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
I should preface that I've only gotten into arcade hardware for like 2 months. So my experience is low.


The theory behind the jamma connector is that everything that's jamma compatible easily swaps. So on paper every jamma pcb should be that easy.

But the CPS2 seems a bit special in that it's got a full enclosure. So you'll need to account for bare PCB's somehow. And as far as I've heard the HAS is the most user friendly supergun on the market. A supergun being a device to help consolize jamma pcb's if you weren't already aware.

To my knowledge there are only a handful of jamma pcb's with known compatibility issues with the HAS. But to be clear, you're probably not going to find a single solution that works with literally everything right out of the box.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:45 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 128
I remembered that the PCB I was referring to was Ikaruga, but I don't think it's JAMMA, right?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26795


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:59 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 336
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
From the 2 minutes of research I just conducted it does not appear to be. JAMMA mostly defines an edge connector (the flat bit that sticks out of home console game cartridges). And it doesn't look like the blast city has an edge connector at all.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:05 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 128
I'm tempted to get something like an 8-way JAMMA switcher and connect a Neo Geo MVS, CPS2, and 6 standalone arcade PCBs to a single supergun.

Do you find that there's much in the way of adjustments necessary when switching between JAMMA boards? I think you have to adjust the colors sometimes for video? Ever have to make adjustments for the controller?


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:19 pm 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 336
Location: Bellevue, Washington, USA
I've only got 4 Jamma PCB's so far. One being the Taito F3 which has known compatibility issues using the mini-din output of the HAS. The other 3 have not required me to do much of anything when switching between them.

If your board uses more than (4?) buttons. You'll need to use what's known as a kick harness for each board. The idea of the kick harness is somewhat standard, but the connector and pinout are not. So a switcher won't work if it only supports the base jamma setup.

You definitely won't have to do anything to your controller to get it working between games. The only thing you might want to change is the button mapping which the HAS allows you to easily do on the fly.
_________________
Spoiler: show
  • YPbPr->Garo
    • PSP
    • PS2
    • XBox
    • Wii
  • RGB->OSSC & PVM-2530
    • Garo
    • AV Famicom
    • SNES
    • N64
    • GameCube
      • GBI
    • Genesis 2
      • CD
      • 32X
    • Saturn
    • Dreamcast
    • PS1
    • Neo Geo AES
    • SuperGrafx
      • SSDS3
    • CD-I
    • 3DO
    • Jaguar
    • HAS
      • CPS2
      • STV
      • F3
  • HDMI
    • OSSC
    • WiiU
    • Switch
    • XBox 360
    • PS3
    • PSTV


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:11 am 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 7045
Location: Bedford, UK
There are lots of adjustments needed between jamma boards. Jamma PCB's are designed to stay in one cabinet and be specifically setup for that game.

Namely - Vertical/horizontal and stretch settings will change game to game
Audio - Some games have stereo/mono outputs. Although you should be fine on audio
Some PCB's output strange frequencies of video.
Older games are 240p, newer ones can be 480p. Older TV's are better for 240p games, but you need newer ones for the 480p games.

Seibu who make Raiden games for example use a frequency rate that most upscalers have trouble with. I believe Rtype uses a resolution closer to the PAL format than the NTSC format.


Easy wins are -

CPS1/2
Neo geo MVS
Most JAMMA compatible PCBs (but you will require the odd change of stretch/vert/hori settings from PCB to PCB.

Taito F3 is like CPS, but as stated workarounds exist.

Back to Ikaruga.. Some arcade games are on cart, some on disc. Ikaruga was based on the Naomi setup which is akin to the Sega Dreamcast. You will require a Naomi system. Naomi supports 240p and 480p. To maximize you need a 31khz monitor (VGA, HDTV etc). I've never used a naomi system before. It seems to be a messy system. Best bet, stick to Dreamcast as its exactly the same thing for the home in a nice cheap package.
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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:28 am 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11444
Location: Germany
Quote:
Seibu who make Raiden games for example use a frequency rate that most upscalers have trouble with. I believe Rtype uses a resolution closer to the PAL format than the NTSC format.

usually it's the displays that have problems with the formats, not actually the upscalers. Seibu uses a 54Hz output. R-Type and other Irem boards with the same hardware output 55Hz (at 256 lines). Both neither near PAL or NTSC.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:10 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1201
yeah, Saturn STV. it uses game cartridges, like Neo Geo.


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 Post subject: Re: Arcade PCB low hanging fruit
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:57 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 128
I believe there's potentially a brightness adjustment to be made as well since the HAS has a dial to control that.

I'd like to get as close as possible to making no adjustments when switching between boards. I could use a separate supergun on each board in order to leave the brightness set separately for each one. Can you save different vertical/horizontal/stretch settings on the Sony PVM and switch to them quickly or would I be adjusting that manually each time I switch boards?

By any chance do the same vertical/horizontal/stretch settings work between the Neo Geo and CPS2?

Can I throw all of the video frequencies/formats/resolutions mentioned above at the PVM for it to handle automatically?


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