OSSC and Toro box for dreamcast! Help

[THE EQUIN0X]

Hi ill try and keep this short

Just Bought the toro box for dreamcast and I'm after the best way to connect, my thought was that it would use VGA direct to monitor when 480p enabled games were playing but the 240p through ossc via scart when, for example last blade 2 was being played.
When vga cable is direct the ossc never seems to get any signal from the scart when I play the last blade!

Am I missing something obvious

Any help appreciated

Mike

[maxtherabbit]

there is no need to mess around with SCART at all if you are using toro with the OSSC

just connect VGA cable and set the OSSC to AV3 RGBHV, and leave the push button under the toro dust cover on the toro UN-pressed (its default condition)

then use the VGA/RGB toggle switch on the side of the toro to switch from 480p to 240p for games like last blade 2

[THE EQUIN0X]

Cheers mate apricate the info.


I guess the scart out is more suited to if you have a CRT as well without VGA

[BuckoA51]

Where the OSSC is concerned, using the SCART is much better from the Toro, here’s why:-

1 – Dreamcast games running in 240p and 480i will benefit from the low-pass filter available on the AV1 input but not available on AV3. 480p games will not be affected either way.

2 – AV1 is set to automatically default to 480p rather than 640×480. 480p is the correct setting for Dreamcast (though you should also change the advanced timings as per the wiki for best results).

3 – Interlace running on AV3 works, but it’s kind of a hack and it can cause problems, no such problems on AV1.

4 – The timings for H&V sync seem a little strict on AV3 and some users have complained this causes image drop outs (this is a theory as I’ve not been able to replicate it personally).

[THE EQUIN0X]

Where the OSSC is concerned, using the SCART is much better from the Toro, here’s why:-

1 – Dreamcast games running in 240p and 480i will benefit from the low-pass filter available on the AV1 input but not available on AV3. 480p games will not be affected either way.

2 – AV1 is set to automatically default to 480p rather than 640×480. 480p is the correct setting for Dreamcast (though you should also change the advanced timings as per the wiki for best results).

3 – Interlace running on AV3 works, but it’s kind of a hack and it can cause problems, no such problems on AV1.

4 – The timings for H&V sync seem a little strict on AV3 and some users have complained this causes image drop outs (this is a theory as I’ve not been able to replicate it personally).

So Regarding point 2, the ossc will recieve 480p through scart if the game allows it(which most do) and the toro is set to VGA?

[THE EQUIN0X]

And I think ive made a big mistake in using streetfighter 3 3rd strike as my testing of 480p content haha

[BuckoA51]

So Regarding point 2, the ossc will recieve 480p through scart if the game allows it(which most do) and the toro is set to VGA?

OSSC supports 480p on all inputs, but you can only use one output from the Toro at a time.

[maxtherabbit]

Where the OSSC is concerned, using the SCART is much better from the Toro, here’s why:-

1 – Dreamcast games running in 240p and 480i will benefit from the low-pass filter available on the AV1 input but not available on AV3. 480p games will not be affected either way.

2 – AV1 is set to automatically default to 480p rather than 640×480. 480p is the correct setting for Dreamcast (though you should also change the advanced timings as per the wiki for best results).

3 – Interlace running on AV3 works, but it’s kind of a hack and it can cause problems, no such problems on AV1.

4 – The timings for H&V sync seem a little strict on AV3 and some users have complained this causes image drop outs (this is a theory as I’ve not been able to replicate it personally).

1) I've not noticed any noise whatsoever from the dreamcast output in any video mode with the LPF off, in my opinion the DC doesn't need an LPF

2) unless you're using the OSSC for an old PC or something, you should probably have it set to always sample DTV 480p anyway

3) pretty sure all dreamcast games have a progressive mode available, whether it be 240 or 480

4) never experienced that either

[nmalinoski]

When vga cable is direct the ossc never seems to get any signal from the scart when I play the last blade!

It's been hinted at, but the reason that there's no image via SCART in that scenario is because you have the output from the Toro set to separate sync (RGBHV/VGA), and SCART requires composite sync (RGBS) as it was designed with only one sync line.

So Regarding point 2, the ossc will recieve 480p through scart if the game allows it(which most do) and the toro is set to VGA?

OSSC supports 480p on all inputs, but you can only use one output from the Toro at a time.

Admittedly, I haven't tested this myself, but my understanding was that the Toro, when set to RGBS output, will put RGBS on both the SCART and VGA port at the same time, but it wasn't designed to be strong enough to drive both outputs at the same time.

3) pretty sure all dreamcast games have a progressive mode available, whether it be 240 or 480

3) Most, but not all. There's small number of 480i-only games (30ish?), many of which can either be patched to display in 480p or tricked into doing so with the DC-side mode switch on the Toro (Bust-A-Move 4 is one of them); and I think there were one or two games that natively render in 480i, and trying to get them to display in 480p makes them unplayable.

[maxtherabbit]

3) pretty sure all dreamcast games have a progressive mode available, whether it be 240 or 480

3) Most, but not all. There's small number of 480i-only games (30ish?), many of which can either be patched to display in 480p or tricked into doing so with the DC-side mode switch on the Toro (Bust-A-Move 4 is one of them); and I think there were one or two games that natively render in 480i, and trying to get them to display in 480p makes them unplayable.

I'm not certain - but I thought at least the vast majority of the games that don't support 480p in any capacity could be run in progressive mode with the DC set to 15kHz RGB

[nmalinoski]

3) pretty sure all dreamcast games have a progressive mode available, whether it be 240 or 480

3) Most, but not all. There's small number of 480i-only games (30ish?), many of which can either be patched to display in 480p or tricked into doing so with the DC-side mode switch on the Toro (Bust-A-Move 4 is one of them); and I think there were one or two games that natively render in 480i, and trying to get them to display in 480p makes them unplayable.

I'm not certain - but I thought at least the vast majority of the games that don't support 480p in any capacity could be run in progressive mode with the DC set to 15kHz RGB

In the case of Bust-A-Move 4, if you have 15kHz/RGBS set on the Toro (Or, say, a regular SCART cable connected), the game will run in 480i, and it has no option to make it run in 240p.

You can, however, get it to run in 480p by starting the console with the switch on the Toro set to 15kHz, then flipping it to 31kHz on the Sega licensing screen; or, if you have a GDEMU, you can simply enable Force VGA. Is this the progressive option you were thinking of?

[maxtherabbit]

I'm not certain - but I thought at least the vast majority of the games that don't support 480p in any capacity could be run in progressive mode with the DC set to 15kHz RGB

In the case of Bust-A-Move 4, if you have 15kHz/RGBS set on the Toro (Or, say, a regular SCART cable connected), the game will run in 480i, and it has no option to make it run in 240p.

You can, however, get it to run in 480p by starting the console with the switch on the Toro set to 15kHz, then flipping it to 31kHz on the Sega licensing screen; or, if you have a GDEMU, you can simply enable Force VGA. Is this the progressive option you were thinking of?

When I said "480p in any capacity" I was including the switch trick

I.e. if the game can't be tricked into running in 480p, they will probably still at least support 240p

[BuckoA51]

1) I've not noticed any noise whatsoever from the dreamcast output in any video mode with the LPF off, in my opinion the DC doesn't need an LPF

That doesn't tally with what I've observed.

Regardless, the LPF will help 15khz games and is disabled for 31khz anyway, so AV1 is the better way to go.

[THE EQUIN0X]

So Regarding point 2, the ossc will recieve 480p through scart if the game allows it(which most do) and the toro is set to VGA?

OSSC supports 480p on all inputs, but you can only use one output from the Toro at a time.

but does the toro output the 480p signal through the scart cable.
Reason for all this is my 480p image diesnt seem as good as i can remember. im thinking its the upscale of it to be honest.
Im going to dig out my old monitor and try it on that again through vga direct

Also how to you access the DTV option in the ossc, i cant find it anywhere or in the menus.

I guessing from the replys that theres no right or wrong ways to obtain the best picture quality

Mike

[Fudoh]

Also how to you access the DTV option in the ossc, i cant find it anywhere or in the menus.

sampling options > 480p somthing > here you can switch between VESA and DTV.

Yes, the Toro does output 31khz RGBs through Scart. The quality is identical to what you would get through the VGA connector.

If you choose VESA instead of DTV you lose some resolution on the horizontal and softer column of pixels here and there. DTV gives you perfect sharpness, but out of the box the aspect ratio will be narrower. By adjusting the output timing manually you can remedy this, but not display is perfectly compatible once you start fiddling with the timings.

I guessing from the replys that theres no right or wrong ways to obtain the best picture quality

the connection you're using on the OSSC doesn't matter and if you use a Toro it also doesn't matter whether you use Scart or HD15. Setting the OSSC to DTV is a must though.