Classic UC0079 Gundam anime - let's talk

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:41 am

They're most certainly not "kids" and their info is as good as anyone elses. I can most certainly say that this is the first time I've heard anyone try to refute the fact that the UC 0079 movies are now considered canon, and there are A LOT of very knowledgeable Gundam fans on that forum. You should check it out some day. Maybe even do a thread and get a discussion started on the matter, if you're really that sure of your case.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:52 am

Naiera wrote:They're most certainly not "kids" and their info is as good as anyone elses. I can most certainly say that this is the first time I've heard anyone try to refute the fact that the UC 0079 movies are now considered canon

Its pretty clear that Tomino doesn't like the 0079 TV series, thats why there is still no DVD release in their homeland. But the fact is TV series is still the canon. Gundam Officials is supervised by Sunrise, there is no room for anyone to challenge that.

and there are A LOT of very knowledgeable Gundam fans on that forum. You should check it out some day. Maybe even do a thread and get a discussion started on the matter, if you're really that sure of your case.

I will definitely check that out someday.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:47 pm

Pop quiz for the truely knowledgeable Gundam fans: How did Dozul Zavi get the large scar on his face?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:39 pm

I wonder what's considered more canon now, the first tv series or the Origin manga?

Ganelon, I too was going to skip this one - I changed my idea because I think Yasuhiko is one of the few character designers which are also good comic writers. I already red his Venus Wars classic before.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:58 am

MSZ wrote: Its pretty clear that Tomino doesn't like the 0079 TV series, thats why there is still no DVD release in their homeland. But the fact is TV series is still the canon. Gundam Officials is supervised by Sunrise, there is no room for anyone to challenge that.

Apparently there is. I've been around a lot of Gundam fans online and I've never heard this before, as mentioned. There were changes made to the story in the movies and these are apparently referred to in later series and movies, thus making the movies canonical.

greg · Post by **greg** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:54 pm

ahnslaught wrote:I've heard from multiple people that 0080 is the best sidestory, but I actually like 08th MST better. 0080 just got too boring for me...

0080 is beautiful. It shows war from an innocent child's view, and the boy Al goes from playing guns and collecting badges with his friends to seeing the brutality of war first-hand. Helping the Zeon insurgents with their terrorist plot at first is like a game to him, playing war. The Zeon Bernie becomes like a big brother to him and a good friend. Bernie develops a crush on Al's next door neighbor Christina, and as a trajic irony, both Bernie and Christina fight to the bitter end, and even more ironically so, both to defend the colony. The school is destroyed, Christina kills Bernie, is transferred to Earth, and the show ends with young Al crying in front of his classmates, alone and isolated, unable to truly talk to anyone the trauma that has just transpired in his life. 0080 is certainly not the most action-packed Gundam series, and it slowly builds to a crescendo, but it is probably the most emotionally impacting Gundam series.

As for this newer Gundam, I only wish that they were as great as 0083 or 08th. I haven't seen V Gundam or F91, but it seems that these were probably the last decent Gundam shows. Gundam Wing was pretty dumb, I often joke that "G" Gundam stands for "Gay" Gundam (Gundams with Ranma 1/2 style antics? Yuck), and I'm not very hopeful about the Gundam Seed series.

Gundam shows seem to be hit or miss, but you can bet that the Gundam mecha designs are almost always cool. I'm pretty proud of my gashapon collection.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:17 pm

I've seen the 0083 movie - last blitz of Zeon - and it was difficult to follow. Then I red the entire story via 13 anime comics. It's very beautiful but still some parts didn't make much sense. I suspect the director change was a major blow for the series.

Is this true for 8th as well? I've heard the staff changed in that one too.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:45 pm

Actually, 0083, at least in anime form, isn't that bad to keep track of; however, it is a more complex story than 08th

One good thing about 08th vs 0083 is that the story is much less...epic, so it flows together rather well, even with the director change (he died during production, I believe?) during the middle and the awfully long time for production to finsish. It only takes place in one general location (S. America) and doesn't have nearly as many characters and settings as 0083 so it's pretty easy to keep track of.

Overall, a good, short series to get into

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:46 pm

ahnslaught wrote:(he died during production, I believe?)

I heard so too.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:26 pm

Naiera wrote:There were changes made to the story in the movies and these are apparently referred to in later series and movies, thus making the movies canonical.

Not true at all, the later series and movies were based on the TV series.

For example, the concept of the G-Fortress design(MA mode of ZZ Gundam) is based on G-Armor, the info can be found in the Master Grade ZZ Gundam manual:

http://211.233.38.221/dalong/mg/m26/m26_m0003.JPG

There is no proof whatsoever that 0079 movies made any impacts on the later UC series.

This is my last comment of this "canon or not" topic, I have been watching Gundam long enough(20+ years) and I have discussed with other fans about the same topic before. Tell those "knowledgeable" fans to buy a copy of Gundam Officials, it may costs a lot of money but its worth it.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:29 pm

Takeyuki Kanda - the director of the first half of the 08th MS Team series died in a car accident in 1996, Umanosuke Iida replaced him. But clearly Iida didn't have any idea of how to make a good Gundam series since the 2nd half is nothing but a Gundam version of Romeo and Juliet...

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:40 am

This is off topic, but similar genre -

Have you guys checked out Armored Trooper Votoms? It's also trying to be as realistic and gritty as possible in an early 80's scifi setting, much like MSG, and it's pretty cool. To be honest, I ordered the whole thing (comes in 4 sets) and received the first part a while back, but it was slow as hell so I was getting disappointed. I just received the second part over the weekend, though, and it picks up in a big way, in terms of plot, action, and characterization. I would recommended for fans of MSG and old school anime.

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:50 pm

ahnslaught wrote:This is off topic, but similar genre -

Have you guys checked out Armored Trooper Votoms? It's also trying to be as realistic and gritty as possible in an early 80's scifi setting, much like MSG, and it's pretty cool. To be honest, I ordered the whole thing (comes in 4 sets) and received the first part a while back, but it was slow as hell so I was getting disappointed. I just received the second part over the weekend, though, and it picks up in a big way, in terms of plot, action, and characterization. I would recommended for fans of MSG and old school anime.

I had a nice collection of Votomos gashapon too, but alas I threw them away as I was moving back to America from Japan. I really should've spent just a bit more money on postage and sent more gashapon back home.

Anyhow, is this the region 1 DVD you're talking about? Details on Amazon seemed sketchy the last I looked. I was unclear on which DVDs to get.

I had caught a few subtitled episodes about six years ago on the International Channel and I liked it a lot.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:29 pm

Yeah, it's the region 1 by central park media. If you preordered the whole series for $100, they sent you each set (of 4) as they became released. I think each set is somewhere around $30 now, and each has about 13-14 episodes.

It's a pretty bare-bones dvd with just subtitles. I gotta admit, however, that the chapter stops are irritating as all hell, because they didn't let you just skip the opening. If you skip to the next chapter, it sends you to somewhere between the end of the opening and the commercial eyecatch. Can't complain too much, though, since they at least took the chance to release such an old show (and pretty obscure in the states, I have to believe).

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:56 am

OK, I just watched the movie Char's Counterattack and I'm stumped. It was certainly great animation, but I was pretty confused of what was going on. I have not seen Zeta Gundam, so perhaps that's why. I've seen everything else in order, up to 0083 (which is by far my favorite).

Quess seemed a bit too much of a miscreant murderer for a 13 year old (and wasn't that her father on the ship she fired on and killed?), and I was a bit surprised when Hathaway killed Chan. I didn't understand what that T-shaped object she flung as she died either. It seems that they packed so much into two hours that they could have explained things a bit better. Newtypes seem like a bunch of jerks to me.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:48 am

Yeah - I feel that's another point of the UC storyline that would need a revamp. I'd go as far as saying that F91 is a better movie overall.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:44 pm

greg wrote:OK, I just watched the movie Char's Counterattack and I'm stumped. It was certainly great animation, but I was pretty confused of what was going on. I have not seen Zeta Gundam, so perhaps that's why. I've seen everything else in order, up to 0083 (which is by far my favorite).

Quess seemed a bit too much of a miscreant murderer for a 13 year old (and wasn't that her father on the ship she fired on and killed?), and I was a bit surprised when Hathaway killed Chan. I didn't understand what that T-shaped object she flung as she died either. It seems that they packed so much into two hours that they could have explained things a bit better. Newtypes seem like a bunch of jerks to me.

SPOILERS:

Quess didn't know her father was on the ship when she fired, she only felt it after killing him. Hathaway was in love with Quess, he killed Chen in a fit of rage. Later on he becomes the leader of a violent anti-federation resistance group, by the way. The T-shaped thing was a psycho frame used to enhance newtype abilities to such an extent that Char and Amuro could push back the asteroid together (when Char realized the futility of his actions).

MORE SPOILERS:

To better understand what is happening it is helpful to have seen Zeta and at least know the outcome of ZZ: After 0083 the murderous Titans are founded who rapidly turn the federation into a dictatorship. Char, Amuro and most of the White Base crew from the One Year War join a group called AEUGO to fight the Titans. Then Axis shows up, a spacefleet of former Duchy of Jion people led by Haman Kaan who want to re-establish a Zavi-led Jion. The Titans are defeated and Char is lost after his Mobile Suit is crushed by Hamman Kaan and isn't heard from again for several years. Axis becomes Neo-Jion and is eventually defeated by AEUGO; Hamman Kaan is killed. Then Char re-surfaces and founds the Second Neo Jion.

Now comes what no-one has managed to explain satisfactory: Even though Char and Amuro had been allies during Zeta Gundam, Char decides he must have one last fight with his former enemy Amuro and it seems he basically stages the whole attack that follows in the movie just for that; he even makes sure Amuro's Nu Gundam is completed in time.