Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

Contra III is quite possibly the best game of its genre.

[Randorama]

...I am also playing Hook by Irem, and it is quite good (besides, Irem could have produced anything and I would have liked it anyway).
It is quite fast-paced, characters have plenty of moves, and the difficulty is OK. It seems that bosses are on the easy side, a bit like Ninja Baseball Batman.

[BIL]

Speaking of somewhat unlikely games by a specific dev : I recently rebought Wizards & Warriors for the NES, by famed 16-bit and 32-bit british developper Rare(!). another staple of young Baton's official grey plastic tray of NES carts.

I'm super nostalgic for it and it has a place in my heart and I still kinda like it but : it's hard to recommend today. tons upon tons of cheap hits from enemies who fall from the top of the screen directly on your helmet at mach speed, and that's so damn frustrating. Especially in narrow vertical stage sections.
Add to that, that some items/weapons take the place of others in your inventory(and you can't get that previous item back), so if you grab a shitty/unwanted weapon, then that's some mega-frustration for you right there.

One of those carts that was always around when I was growing up, but I never actually played much. I just learned it actually got a Famicom release via Jaleco, as "Densetsu no Kishi Elrond." Always piques my interest, that. Got an irrational thing for JP localisations of Western stuff. (see also Namcot's SFC run of Blizzard/Interplay's Rock n' Roll Racing... that game absolutely owns, regardless, but it's a nice bit of extra curio cred!)

I noticed arcade favourites NMK are credited on FC Wizards' title screen, despite them seemingly having no dev role. Poking around a bit reminded me of their bizarre Legend of Makai, which I'm sure I've seen referenced on this forum before. It's worth a look, some amusing cross-market, cross-country plagiarism going on there.

[Jonny2x4]

Contra III isn't as good as the NES ones, though. Or as good as Arcade Super Contra.

What! That's an... interesting view. Arcade Super Contra might be more bearable if it actually used a hori screen, as it is I find the entire thing a chore. And those overhead stages.....

I don't mind the vertical setup of the arcade Contras at all. If anything, it gives the arcade games a claustrophobic sense that is missing in the console games, forcing you to always be on your toes.

The AC Contra is not all that interesting though unless you max out the difficulty settings on the DIP switches. For some reason, the factory settings of the game is set on the lowest level, but even on Normal it's way too easy. You really have to set on Very Hard and set your lives to the lowest amount possible (extends included) if you want the game to really put you through hell.

At any rate, I always felt the game was rather unpolished and unfinished compared to its NES counterpart or even its own arcade sequel. Like they went through the trouble of making the Laser Gun and the Machine Gun power-ups their own design and drawing all those animation frames of Bill and Lance wielding it, but when it came to the Fire Gun and the Spread Gun, they simply reused the same designs as the other two respectively and simply made their icons into the Red Falcon symbol with a letter. It's interesting how Super Contra committed to the idea of giving its power-up its own design, whereas the NES versions (due to the obvious hardware limitations), went with letter-based symbols for everything.

Also interesting how the flying weapon capsules only show up when you have nothing but the normal gun equipped. The Rapid Bullets is pretty easy to miss as a result, since it only shows up in two weapon capsules throughout the entire game.

[FinalBaton]

One of those carts that was always around when I was growing up, but I never actually played much. I just learned it actually got a Famicom release via Jaleco, as "Densetsu no Kishi Elrond." Always piques my interest, that. Got an irrational thing for JP localisations of Western stuff. (see also Namcot's SFC run of Blizzard/Interplay's Rock n' Roll Racing... that game absolutely owns, regardless, but it's a nice bit of extra curio cred!)

I noticed arcade favourites NMK are credited on FC Wizards' title screen, despite them seemingly having no dev role. Poking around a bit reminded me of their bizarre Legend of Makai, which I'm sure I've seen referenced on this forum before. It's worth a look, some amusing cross-market, cross-country plagiarism going on there.

I didn't even knew W&W got ported to the NTSC-J market! interesting hat they plugged Tolkien Lore in it...
so random. lol

[BrianC]

Elrond version of W&W seems to have no enemies in the forest part of the first stage, with enemies only showing up in rooms. It also has a number life meter replacing the score instead of a life bar. Maybe NMK tweaked the game?

Speaking of Japanese localizations of western games, Battletoads was made easier for the JP FC version (which also has the EU bug fixes) and there's an odd JP developed MD/Genesis port that has some of the same changes as the JP FC version.

[WelshMegalodon]

If most American gamers played Contra with the 30 lives code, does that mean they were trying to get by with the pea shooter for most of it? I'd hate the game, too, if I were forced to do that.

[FinalBaton]

well when I was a kid, I wasn't a very good gamer... like most kids (I'm still not very good, but at least I got a ton better ^_^ b )so the code was nice. Don't think I would have cleared the game back then without the code.

(teens and adults who needed the code had no excuse though those scrublords)

Also when playing the game coop, that other chode would constantly cause you deaths you wouldn't have had on single player

[Vanguard]

Contra III isn't as good as the NES ones, though. Or as good as Arcade Super Contra.

Contra III is quite possibly the best game of its genre.

Contra 3 loses NES Contra's wonderful sense of overwhelming firepower and its stage quality is inconsistent, but its raw intensity goes a long way towards making up for it.

The only Contra 3 weapon that really feels powerful is the C missile with the weapon swap glitch, and even that pales in comparison to the godlike NES spreadshot or AC Super Contra's super machine gun. Hard mode really turns into a slog if you get hit or if you just don't know about weapon swapping. One of my favorite things about NES Contra is that even the default rifle feels powerful enough to be superweapon in any other game. Like, if you up close to a boss and mash, it'll shred bosses about as fast as POW mode does in The Revenge of Shinobi. And the spread gun is five times as strong. It's not that Contra 3's weapons are inadequate (well the rifle is, but it's a penalty item), they just don't capture the same feeling of dominating firepower that, for me, is a big part of what makes NES Contra great.

As for the stage design, it's never bad, but I find it to be a bit hit or miss. Stage 1 is mostly a matter of memorizing the sniper spawn positions and then you're golden. It's apparently really intense if you follow strange house rules that forbid ever tapping to the left? But I don't care about that. Stage 2 is the first top-down stage, and while those stages' problems get blown way out of proportion (they're fine. Good, even) they're not the reason why anyone plays Contra 3. The first half of stage 3 is mostly memorization again, and the robot takes too long to climb to the top of the wall. Once you do get to the top, the rest of the stage is cool. The drill robot and the terminators at the end are scary in hard mode. Stage 4 is awesome, and special mention needs to go to the boss for being amazing in both concept and execution. Stage 5 is another top down level. Then we get to stage 6 which is what I wish the entire game was. Very fast-paced, very intense. Once you reach the heart the game starts one-upping itself again and again in gameplay, visuals, and music up until the end. Anyway, like I said, the level design isn't bad at all, but I have a hard time accepting it as anything near the best run and gun game when only about 1/3 of it is truly excellent.

The one thing that really makes Contra 3 stand out over NES Contra is how much more aggressive and challenging it is. NES Contra isn't very hard to 1cc, or no-miss, and even a no-miss no-item clear is ultimately pretty tame. In Contra 3, a hard 1cc isn't trivial even with the billion lives they give you, and (from what I hear) a no-miss clear still won't feel like a sure thing after hundreds of hours of practice. That it's well-suited for speed runs and style runs is another big plus. NES Contra won't begin to compare with Contra 3 hard mode's difficulty until like, the 7th loop, and even then it's mostly coming from the silly HP inflation in stage 8.

In conclusion, which Contra a person enjoys most is more a matter of their own preferences and less a matter of one game being better than the other, and Daimakaimura is the best run and gun.

[BIL]

If most American gamers played Contra with the 30 lives code, does that mean they were trying to get by with the pea shooter for most of it? I'd hate the game, too, if I were forced to do that.

More information needed. It's always been in the mainstream press's nature to oversell challenging games, and for their audiences to play along.

[WelshMegalodon]

Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon for Mega Drive

The first time I played this game was in my early 20s at a friend's house. I was (very) stoned and was so amused (and determined) to throw every monster out the window during the elevator stage. It was the fact you'd hear a glass shatter sound effect and see glass shards EVERY time with the window miraculously never actually breaking and staying in place. We were laughing at that so much.

yeah I really like the "Uwaa!!" each one lets out

I take it I'm the only one who thought this game felt kind of janky? The moving train stage was a particularly rank offender.

Something something enemy hitboxes...

[Jonny2x4]

If most American gamers played Contra with the 30 lives code, does that mean they were trying to get by with the pea shooter for most of it? I'd hate the game, too, if I were forced to do that.

More information needed. It's always been in the mainstream press's nature to oversell challenging games, and for their audiences to play along.

Contra is indeed the Dark Souls of run'n guns.

On that note, the only Contra games I truly consider hard are Super Contra (specifically the JP-exclusive 2nd loop), the U.S. version of Hard Corps and Shattered Soldier if you're going for the S-rank.

[BIL]

Stage 1 is mostly a matter of memorizing the sniper spawn positions and then you're golden. It's apparently really intense if you follow strange house rules that forbid ever tapping to the left? But I don't care about that.

It's less a matter of never tapping left - more not breaking stride when approaching a nest. They literally can't hit an advancing player, so instead of methodically learning their positions and picking them off, you can just mow the lot while adjusting to the random crowd spawns on the fly, plus it looks/sounds/feels fuckin rad! That's an offer I can't refuse.

The one thing that really makes Contra 3 stand out over NES Contra is how much more aggressive and challenging it is. NES Contra isn't very hard to 1cc, or no-miss, and even a no-miss no-item clear is ultimately pretty tame. In Contra 3, a hard 1cc isn't trivial even with the billion lives they give you, and (from what I hear) a no-miss clear still won't feel like a sure thing after hundreds of hours of practice. That it's well-suited for speed runs and style runs is another big plus. NES Contra won't begin to compare with Contra 3 hard mode's difficulty until like, the 7th loop, and even then it's mostly coming from the silly HP inflation in stage 8.

In conclusion, which Contra a person enjoys most is more a matter of their own preferences and less a matter of one game being better than the other, and Daimakaimura is the best run and gun.

This. III is a deadly gauntlet of setpieces and minibosses, with occasional free runs as squarely lethal as the rest of the slate. I find direct comparison with the NES's freewheeling zakofest of limited use. Better to compare their direct (console) sequels, which although great suffer from a lack of what their predecessors do share: volatility. Both are noticeably more consistent at wrong-footing expert players than their relatively stable followups. It's an eternally compelling source of menace/mischief in their respective fields.

Since Blinge mentioned trying out III, I'll toss in my 2c for new players.

-Clear Normal mode first. Hard is a second loop in all but name and expects you to know the game's basic layouts. And even then, there's a handful of borderline cheapshots even veterans may fall afoul of. Newbies will be turned off cold, not unjustly! (edit: I'm glad vets can go straight to hard though )

-Don't worry about the boss-smashing speedkills, or the weapon swap exploit, and don't mistake C+C for a win button. Speedkills require advance knowledge of stage and boss data. Hitting [switch] while shooting is annoying at first, particularly while you're still learning the game and adjusting to the overly buttony controls (for the love of God, make sure you play this with quality shoulder triggers, or the topdowns will irritate... even if you're the rare sort who enjoys them, like me!). And although C's DPS is unrivalled, C+C is more expert tool than free pass. Its short range, narrow focus and long decay time need careful working around - jumpier areas/bosses will easily overrun noobs. Rangier S, F, L and even puny H all have their uses on learner clears.

-Even for newbies, the swap exploit is useful for getting a bit more firepower onscreen / avoiding "dead man's click" scenarios. However keep in mind it's about timing and spacing, not mashing. See the flashing icons?

Spoiler

Tap tap tap, few times a second. That's all that's required for the rude (and risky) boss instakill pictured. If you forego good form and mash like a maniac, there's a good chance you'll get a drill up your ass! See also the screen-scouring S+S fire, no mashing required:

Spoiler

And as mentioned, #1 boss smasher C+C's decay time is long, so even in truly point-blanked situations like this:

(edit2: minor last boss safespot spoiler)

Spoiler

even the most frenzied tapping won't kill the target any faster.

TLDR: There is no TLDR with games this fiendishly unforgiving. Even the exploit requires careful use. Learn from the ground up.

[mycophobia]

I take it I'm the only one who thought this game felt kind of janky? The moving train stage was a particularly rank offender.

Something something enemy hitboxes...

yeah it's janky as fuck which is why i'm probably not going to bother with clearing hard mode. I wish there were good Sailor Moon games...

[WelshMegalodon]

__SKYe and I determined last year that the Sailor Moon R belt scroller was pretty decent (I personally still enjoy firing it up from time to time), and it looks like the Sailor Moon S fighter has been gaining some traction among fighting game fans lately.

While I haven't played Another Story, I've heard some good things about it from fans of the anime... though on second thought, that doesn't really mean much. It's also a JRPG, so...

EDIT: D'oh! I forgot you had already played Sailor Moon R.

[Obscura]

Better to compare their direct (console) sequels, which although great suffer from a lack of what their predecessors do share: volatility. Both are noticeably more consistent at wrong-footing expert players than their relatively stable followups. It's an eternally compelling source of menace/mischief in their respective fields.

Even after getting to where I could 1LC both games, I still found SuperC harder than Contra. Scenes like the stage 5 boss or the collapsing tunnel in the final stage are far more unforgiving than a few runners that can usually be dealt with by simply tapping left, at least for me.

[BIL]

It's st6's opening Sarlaac field that bothers me most in that game, more than any one thing in the original (there it's mostly being pincered in the runner/cannon areas of st5/6/7). 99% of the time I mow through it just fine by mashing spread, blowing up a few pointblank as they spawn... but I could swear there are occasional runs where one spawns almost directly underneath me, and neither killing nor evasion is possible. Fairly sure it's hesitation/jitters on my part, though.

st5 boss is up there with the original's fourth for peashooter highlights, certainly. Although I don't worry about dying with spread, there's a lot to keep on top of even then, and peashooting becomes a mean test of accuracy. Pincer pests, drifting flak and of course his deadliest attack, the pancake drop. Potentially inescapable IIRC? I just pre-emptively keep well to one side of him at all times so I can clear the drop zone.

An underrated face in the series imo. He goes out with the mother of all explosions in AC st4, puts up one of the more spirited boss fights in the FC canon, and lends his formidable VTOL capability to III's winningly hateful "TAKE U 2 HELL W/ME" escape!

[Kino]

.

[Obscura]

It's st6's opening Sarlaac field that bothers me most in that game, more than any one thing in the original (there it's mostly being pincered in the runner/cannon areas of st5/6/7). 99% of the time I mow through it just fine by mashing spread, blowing up a few pointblank as they spawn... but I could swear there are occasional runs where one spawns almost directly underneath me, and neither killing nor evasion is possible. Fairly sure it's hesitation/jitters on my part, though.

They can spawn directly underneath you, and the "bump" animation that warns where one is going to spawn is nearly invisible directly beneath your sprite, so you have to keep moving up the screen; as long as you keep moving up, any that will be directly in your path will be visible before they erupt long enough for you to react, and you'll just naturally walk off of any that would spawn directly underneath you invisibly. Of course, moving up constantly is easier said than done with those little blue spider dudes running interference!

[BIL]

Aha, the spiders... it does sound like I'm getting cajoled into diagonal movements, losing speed and being left vulnerable to worst-case Sarlaacs. Thanks, will try it out next time around.

[mycophobia]

I wish there were good Sailor Moon games...

Just in case you haven't given it a whirl, the Gazelle arcade game is as close as it gets to a legitimately 'good' Sailor Moon game. Movesets feel a bit primitive for a late period belt scroller, and the soundtrack is cat-running-across-a-Casio as fuck.... though for what it's worth, it is one of only two beat-em-ups I'm aware of to have a remotely entertaining scoring system.

Also, Joker Jun pixel art. What more needs to be said?

it looks really good but i get really frustrated trying to play it

[BrianC]

I wonder what the deal is with the MD Sailor Moon. It seems to be a semi-port/remix of the SNES version rather than a completely new game. It has many of the same enemies and shares some stages.

[Obscura]

Aha, the spiders... it does sound like I'm getting cajoled into diagonal movements, losing speed and being left vulnerable to worst-case Sarlaacs. Thanks, will try it out next time around.

Yeah, not only do you lose speed, but the hitboxes on the mouths are square, so moving diagonally means you have to move about 1.4 times as far to get off of a worst-case spawn (which means you're going to die). It all sounds so simple, but having to deal with the spiders can make it surprisingly tricky at times; avoiding any and all diagonal movement is simply untenable because you've got to pick them off before they become a real problem, but you have to limit it to instantaneous shots on the diagonal instead of prolonged running.

[Jonny2x4]

I wonder what the deal is with the MD Sailor Moon. It seems to be a semi-port/remix of the SNES version rather than a completely new game. It has many of the same enemies and shares some stages.

Sounds like they saw what Konami did with Hyperstone Heist on the Mega Drive and they decided to simply reuse assets from the Super Famicom version rather than make a new game from the ground up.

[BIL]

Yeah, not only do you lose speed, but the hitboxes on the mouths are square, so moving diagonally means you have to move about 1.4 times as far to get off of a worst-case spawn (which means you're going to die). It all sounds so simple, but having to deal with the spiders can make it surprisingly tricky at times; avoiding any and all diagonal movement is simply untenable because you've got to pick them off before they become a real problem, but you have to limit it to instantaneous shots on the diagonal instead of prolonged running.

Minimising diagonal movement seems to work! Fired up FC Super for the first time in ages this evening, Sarlaac field suddenly made a lot more sense. Thanks again for that!

I actually decided to try out a peashooter run, to give the spiders more screen time. Ultimately couldn't nail it (stupid death in the vertical fall down to the last boss... runner spawns can be real dicks there), and was too ugly overall tbh - but did have a memorable reunion with MC Killer Pancake. Here's a clip to demonstrate my pancake neutralisation methods. Are those the Castlevania III Loop 2 skulls, aka Medusa Heads For Real Men Of Valour? Hm. Not quite, but they sure do make me think of shared staff!

Ambush! Welcome To The Devil's IHOP Motherfucker

Spoiler

The battle rages on in full cinema sound!
Sarabada, Pancake-kun! Waffle Blast That Shook The Heavens

What a superb boss, and showcase of the game's eight-way fire. Also, now that I'm re-acquainted, my approach isn't just "stay to one side," but also aggressively switch as the risk of being penned by the screen nears. As long as you're proactive, the drop won't get you.

Includes Sarlaac demo, and also spiney alley. I never quite nailed the EZ spiney method even with spread, so my peashooter game was UNACCEPTABLY OUTTA FUCKIN CONTROL (can you do EZ way with peashooter? wouldn't surprise me tbh). Lots of good stuff going on at this part of the game. Multitasking and overlap, that's what I like. Criminally lame FC Gyaba (you were doing so well with FC spinies!) and annoying stage 7 make it easy to forget the last stage is great too.

Likely won't attempt the full run again, stage 7 (WALLS R' US) is a drag and made my hand hurt. Don't see the point using autofire, given how strong even non-R peashooter becomes. And tbh lmao @ buttonmashletics. Takahashi Meijin is quick on the trigger but I'm pretty sure I look better naked and could pin him too. Just kidding Takahashi-sama! Please don't hunt me down for Lords Of The Locker Room XVIII: International Wrestling Festival 2018! edit: Although I do have a really nice CIB Boukenjima and full FC caravan trilogy you could sign!

[Obscura]

Yeah, stage 7 in Super C is really bad (and stage 3 is also a lot weaker than it should have been). It's funny; in Contra, it's the "alternate view" stages that need some apologizing for, but in Super C, 2 is pretty solid and 6 is great (lame bosses aside, for both 2 and 6), but it's a couple of the side-scroller stages that let the whole thing down a bit. Ironic that it's the two stages that have the "walls in the background bosses", just like in Contra, but in Super C, those don't have anywhere near the intensity of their Contra counterparts, especially the lame stage 3 boss.

(Actually, thinking about it, in general I'd say that Super C's bosses aren't anywhere near as good as Contra's, aside from stage 5. I still like Super C more, though. Not having to suffer through the base stages, and things like that awesome last stage, or the awesome upwards climbs of stages 4 and 5 make up for it IMO. Also, I've never liked the "spiked walls" in Contra's stage 7 a whole lot either, just needless flow-killers.)

[Vanguard]

Squaresoft's(!) Rad Racer on the NES.

I tried this today based on everyone's endorsements. It's as rad as its name suggests. What an incredible sense of speed! Those drivers are such assholes! The radio that changes stations whenever there's a crisis and BareKnuckleRoo's rear bumping technique are both very funny. Thanks for bringing it up!

[BIL]

Delighted someone has discovered Rad Racer ITT. I knew it was something special even as a dumb 7y/o when my dad, a car nut who only enjoys River City Ransom (and largely for its friendly fire at that) gave his approval. To this day I can still elicit an exasperated wonder by reminding him of the time we fired up Test Drive III on our brand new PC, and he experienced Real Gamer Disappointment before wondering why my secondhand NES was thrashing it.

That's TALENT pops (｀ω´メ) And, uh, flat-out better judgement at the most satisfying way to convey furious high-performance motoring BITD, but that's just an unfair advantage for RR!

[WelshMegalodon]

I'd even go so far as to argue that Rad Racer is a more deserving representative of Square's Famicom legacy and Nasir's coding prowess than the Final Fantasy games, as much as I hate to admit it.

it looks really good but i get really frustrated trying to play it

Pretty much sums up my own experience with the game. How far were you able to get?

[mycophobia]

I'd even go so far as to argue that Rad Racer is a more deserving representative of Square's Famicom legacy and Nasir's coding prowess than the Final Fantasy games, as much as I hate to admit it.

it looks really good but i get really frustrated trying to play it

Pretty much sums up my own experience with the game. How far were you able to get?

I haven't played it that much but the first boss was enough to piss me off lol