40" 4:3 Sony CRT tv with DVI input for mame project?

[Fudoh]

Xyga: Gratulations on your 1000th posting right now!

Always RGB full color, full speed, PAL and NTSC, on pretty much every set past 1994-95: that's the reality I've known for almost 20 years.

My sister's Sanyo in the early 90s would display 60Hz squeezed only. In the late 80s, there certainly were a few sets which didn't handle 60Hz this easily - especially from european companies like Philips or Grundig. My purchase of a RGB modded PC Engine in 1988 drove me into buying a Commodore 1084. Before that I was indeed a RF-kid. The 1084 lasted until I got my first Trinition somewhere along the japanese PS1 launch.

[Xyga]

Xyga: Gratulations on your 1000th posting right now!

Oh my ! Hadn't noticed, in less than a year. ^^"

Always RGB full color, full speed, PAL and NTSC, on pretty much every set past 1994-95: that's the reality I've known for almost 20 years.

My sister's Sanyo in the early 90s would display 60Hz squeezed only. In the late 80s, there certainly were a few sets which didn't handle 60Hz this easily - especially from european companies like Philips or Grundig. My purchase of a RGB modded PC Engine in 1988 drove me into buying a Commodore 1084. Before that I was indeed a RF-kid. The 1084 lasted until I got my first Trinition somewhere along the japanese PS1 launch.

Indeed I remember my father bough a Grundig sometime in the early 90's and it was stuck at 50Hz (had to adjust with a potentiometer).
Scart started in France and became the standard pretty much everywhere around 1990, but NTSC/60Hz compatibility came around the time when chassis turned digital I believe, around 1995.
Almost every house then became equipped with scart/RGB 50/60Hz sets before the end of the 90's.

[Classicgamer]

I have a renewed interest in the Sony KV40XBR as there seem to be a number of them for sale in my area for less than $75 right now. I reread this thread but I'm still not 100% clear on how it works with 15khz signals.

Does anyone know for sure that these sets can display 240p 60hz without any scaling and if these are true multi-syncs?

In the online user manual it mentions DRC or digital reality creation which it describes as an upscaling feature for 480i and 480p sources (converts them to 1080i).

According the the manual, the DRC options are interlaced, progressive or cinemotion (but not off). There is also a "DRC pallete" option which seems to allow the user to increase or decrease the level of detail but not turn off all upscaling.... Does anyone know if all scaling and other image processing can be turned off completely in either the user menu or the service menu?

It seems like the DVI input is DVI D only so it is no good for displaying the 240p output from my arcade vga card but the 2 sets of component inputs are labelled: "480i, 480p and 1080i". If it can display 480i through component without upscaling it, then it should be ok for 240p. The component inputs are labelled "HDTV" which makes it confusing.

If the image processing can be turned off then this set might be a decent alternative to the almost impossible to find NEC XM29's for large screen multi-sync gaming. If not, I might still consider one for a custom Daytona or Sega Rally sit down cab as games on the Model 2 emulator look good on higher resolution displays.

Given that a key strength of CRT displays is their ability to switch resolutions, it is hard to believe that manufacturers force you to upscale images to non-native ones instead....

[Josh128]

The difference between a snes connected through svideo and one connected through rgb scart is too small to care about. Side by side, you might be able to see little differences but you would find it hard to say which is "better".

Agree 100%. My experience has always been with RGBs >> YUV >> TV, and I agree theres not much difference on consumer NTSC tvs other than a little more color with the RGBs. Same with N64.

Going from S-Video to RGB from my SNES on a consumer television blew me away the second I saw it. I'm not sure why people say there's not a noticeable difference.

I realize this is an older thread, but this hearkens back to our lively discussion on SVideo on the F4500 thread. The RGBs output on my SNES 1 is actually inferior to its SVideo, so its not a good comparison, but the RGBs output of my N64 is pristine, and I could not see any clarity difference vs. Svideo on a 36" 15kHz JVC CRT. A little more color saturation, thats about it.

I have a renewed interest in the Sony KV40XBR as there seem to be a number of them for sale in my area for less than $75 right now. I reread this thread but I'm still not 100% clear on how it works with 15khz signals.

Does anyone know for sure that these sets can display 240p 60hz without any scaling and if these are true multi-syncs?

In the online user manual it mentions DRC or digital reality creation which it describes as an upscaling feature for 480i and 480p sources (converts them to 1080i).

According the the manual, the DRC options are interlaced, progressive or cinemotion (but not off). There is also a "DRC pallete" option which seems to allow the user to increase or decrease the level of detail but not turn off all upscaling.... Does anyone know if all scaling and other image processing can be turned off completely in either the user menu or the service menu?

It seems like the DVI input is DVI D only so it is no good for displaying the 240p output from my arcade vga card but the 2 sets of component inputs are labelled: "480i, 480p and 1080i". If it can display 480i through component without upscaling it, then it should be ok for 240p. The component inputs are labelled "HDTV" which makes it confusing.

If the image processing can be turned off then this set might be a decent alternative to the almost impossible to find NEC XM29's for large screen multi-sync gaming. If not, I might still consider one for a custom Daytona or Sega Rally sit down cab as games on the Model 2 emulator look good on higher resolution displays.

Given that a key strength of CRT displays is their ability to switch resolutions, it is hard to believe that manufacturers force you to upscale images to non-native ones instead....

Its very unlikely that it doesnt linedouble 240p-- Ive had 2 different HD CRTs (a Hitachi and an Philips) and both would line double 240p, giving a very sharp image (that you dont appear to want). The Philips actually could not display it properly-- though the image looked clear and sharp, it ran at about 10 fps! EXTREMELY strange-- there was no fixing it-- it was either 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i or bust. Apparently 240p was overlooked by the TVs design engineers. My workaround was to feed the 240p signal via SVideo to a GefenTV HDMI converter-- the converter upconverted the signal to an acceptable resolution and then the TV displayed it fine.

In any case, I live in the US and I have not experienced any early 2000's HD CRT TVs that did not line double 240p to display it. That includes Panasonic and Sony models Ive seen as well. For 240p, 2D games will look like the images below-- this is what you are trying to avoid, right?




I really think the best option for you would be to just get a nice 15Khz CRT, and an Extron Emotia or Super Emotia. Feed the Emotia with VGA, convert to S-Video or RGBs, feed the S-Video to your set with the 240p option, or convert the RGBs to Component and send to your set that way. Ive had both an Emotia and Super Emotia and used them on some old CRTs for the very same thing, the 240p conversion/output was fantastic looking.

I posted some pictures of what the Emotia looks like on a 15KHz CRT with S-Video on the Emotia question thread here.

[Kyle]

I had a 27" Sony with DVI. The picture above is the reason I gave it right back to Goodwill. It butchered 240p content.

[mvsfan]

i am also now interested in these high scan XBRs since reading this post. I see the 40" quite often on Cl near me and they often show up for under $100.

ive always passed them up because

I just didnt think that they displayed 240p correctly.

From what ive gathered from this post - They do.

it sounds like they are multiscan.

I also like the fact that they come with their own factory stand.

[BazookaBen]

it sounds like they are multiscan.

They aren't multiscan, you can search AVSForum where they answered this question 10 years ago. Sony HD sets permanently scan at 1080i and scale all other resolutions into that frame. With 480p, the set simply fits a line-doubled 1280x960i image inside the 1080i frame and stretches it a little so there's no underscan. The scaling looks pretty good that way, but it's definitely not true 480p.

That said, I've never seen a better 480p picture than on my Hi-scan Sony. So you should definitely pick one up. You'll need 3 people to carry the 40" though.

[jgsieve]

sorry to resurrect this, I have one of these 40" TVs setting in storage with that has already been repaired from a notorious problem they get with resistors. I want to play ps1 and ps2 games, I am familiar with the the line doubling, this thing is heavy, and before i get it to my house, i want to make sure it is what i want. if i connect a ps2 for ps2 and ps1 gaming, should i do it with component or s-video? and do light guns work? i'm looking for a definitive answer on the light guns, not speculation.

Thanks!