The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.

[morfeo]

Hello guys, Im pretty new to the supergun business, but have been using it for MVS carts for a while, which works fine. However, just got my first board (WWF Superstars), and the supergun cuts the power when i try to boot it up. So ive been thinking, maybe its not the right voltage? After all, there is an option to change from 5V (which the MV1FZ use) to 12 volt, so ive been thinking, maybe that is what i have to do? But i dont want to do it if i can damage something.

Anyways, i use a retroelectonik supergun, works great as i said with the MV1FZ. Shuts down instantly when i try the WWF Superstars board. So do avoid damage to anything, i ask here. Any tips? Thanks in advance!

[NostalgicGamer]

Are you using the "ProGamer" version of the retroelectronik supergun? If so what voltage is it displaying?

[GeorgeRRFartin]

Since this may be helpful to anyone who's considering it: I can put in my recommendation NOT to buy the Retroelectronik supergun. I bought one back in May, and given the warnings of a number of people here and elsewhere, I made sure to look it over to ensure it was good. Nothing was touching any traces, nothing seemed cold-soldered, etc... It was all fine, I assumed.

Then my MV1B died. Which I chalked up to being a used piece of hardware, and moved on to a MB1A. Which immediately started acting up.

After troubleshooting everything I could, I finally found, while cleaning the JAMMA ends of things, that one of the grounds in the connector on the supergun was snapped off. Now, it could've been me (unlikely), or it could've just been made with a really shitty connector. But it was broken. Also, it was last week, so I couldn't exactly get a refund on the thing.

In addition: I had bought the 15 pin to 9 pin Sega adapters and one immediately fried on me. When I went for a refund, I received it after Ebay defaulted to a refund because the seller did not respond. He was similarly radio-silent when I had sent other messages post-purchase.

This thing might look like a great deal to someone new to the scene (as it did to me, and as I am/was), but it's a complete waste of time and money. Do not buy the Retroelectronik supergun, and I would highly suggest anyone who has recently purchased one return theirs. Given my experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the dude just doesn't respond at all and you get a refund and a (piece of shit, dangerous) supergun to chuck in the garbage.

I lost a perfectly good piece of hardware (possibly two; waiting on a MAK Strike now to see if the MV1A is permanently screwed) on this thing. I'd really like if others could be saved from taking a similar risk.

DO NOT BUY THE RETROELECTRONIK SUPERGUN.

[NoAffinity]

The switch for 5v<->12v is simply to change what is measured and displays on the LCD. It does not actually switch voltage anywhere. You have (or should have) +5V, +12V and -5V available from your power supply and via the jamma connector. Check the appropriate jamma pins with a multimeter to confirm.

There is a switch, however, that will enable the retroelektronic to generate -5v, if you are using a power supply that does not provide it and is connected to the ATX (PC power supply) connector. Neo Geo does not require -5v, but WWF might. I would start with confirming you have -5v at the edge connector, and if not, rectifying that situation.

All that said, I recently had a Strikers 1945 board doing the exact same thing that you describe, and I've got an arcade power supply supplying my retroelektronic, with +5v, +12v and -5v present. So, possibly the issues are related, possibly not. But I am watching for any more responses, in case other users are having the same problem.

[system11]

Yes, Superstars needs -5v, but it would probably run minus sound without it.

[Classicgamer]

Is anyone here using a supergun with one of those multi-game jamma PCB boards?

I'm curious if there is any real advantage over using emulators (output at native resolutions)?

For some reason, MAME seems to get less and less user friendly with every new release. I find myself increasingly frustrated by messages telling me I can't play games that used to work because I am missing files.... even when the rom is apparently for the version of MAME I am using.

So..... while they have always appeared to be somewhat of an oddity to me in this day and age, I find myself curious about replacing mame with a supergun and a good multi-game jamma pcb.

Is there any effective difference between emulators and these multigame boards? Or are they really just a Jamma compatible emulator?

Is anyone still selling supergun consoles that output 240p RGB? I could only see bare bones simple supergun PCBs from Europe or nice consolized superguns but that only output upscaled HDMI or component...

[shmupsrocks]

Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.

[Classicgamer]

Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.

That's pretty much any of currently available simple supergun boards (I.e. Not one of the consolized hdmi versions).

I am going to buy this one soon:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supergun-Arcad ... SwR7BbhXW8

It looks as good as any so no point in paying $500 for someone else to stick one in a box. I want to use one to try one of those Raspberry Pi with the Jamma adapter to build a mini bartop (to use an 8" rgb crt monitor I have lying around).

[shmupsrocks]

So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?

[shmupsrocks]

Classicgamer, that supergun is made by CBOX. I have the CMVS by CBOX and it fried my OSSC and this guy's OSSC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-K3qHcJ2w

[mr. newbie]

Is anyone here using a supergun with one of those multi-game jamma PCB boards?
snip

The multigame boards are literally crappy pc's running an outdated build of mame with a custom interface. The advantage to using a pc is that you can use a newer version of mame with a more powerful computer. also you naturally get more games. If you're going to buy a multigame + supergun, you may as well just buy a cheap pc + amd gpu and use soft 15khz (or something similar).

Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.

That's pretty much any of currently available simple supergun boards (I.e. Not one of the consolized hdmi versions).

I am going to buy this one soon:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supergun-Arcad ... SwR7BbhXW8

It looks as good as any so no point in paying $500 for someone else to stick one in a box. I want to use one to try one of those Raspberry Pi with the Jamma adapter to build a mini bartop (to use an 8" rgb crt monitor I have lying around).

So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?

Basically at this point the consensus at multiple forums is :

1. The HAS supergun from member rgb on this site. It features the best build quality, and has all the necessary features
The problem is they're out of stock

2-99 Every supergun that isn't a HAS basically.

Because the HAS is oos, I went with the retroeltronik progamer. Apparently this unit might feed rgb without a buffer. You can see ChuChu Flamingo's posts on the last page about that. For what its worth I haven't had an issue connecting it to my pvm. A friend of mine who does board repairs uses the retroelektronik to test video output on all his repairs. That's just 2 anecdotes, but it's something.

Stay away from retroelectronik. They drive the rgb video without a buffer afaik. Wait for the HAS.

How would we determine with certainty that the retroelektronik's don't have a video buffer?

[zeruel85]

Retroelectronik's supergun has just four resistors in series for RGBS lines (plus three pots for adjustable RGB out).

I modded one of a friend of mine some time ago, adding a THS7374 and proper attenuation values.

[shmupsrocks]

The currently available ones I can find info on are the Retroelectronik, Windy Gaming, and MAK Strike. Both the HAS and Sentinel are very promising and hopefully available soon but not right now.

The Windy Gaming looks nice but perhaps somewhat bulky and the internal PSU has a fan which I don't like. Also no audio output separate from the RGB port.

The Retroelectronik is said in the comments here to not properly attenuate the RGB sync line:

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _supergun/

Also I think it requires an ATX PSU and I believe most or all of those have fans.

The MAK Strike looks to be the best choice for me overall. The main issue with it seems to be a voltage spike which has been known to kill attached decoder boards but I've read several reports of it working fine with the OSSC. It optionally comes with a power supply and I hope that doesn't incorporate a fan.

[mr. newbie]

The currently available ones I can find info on are the Retroelectronik, Windy Gaming, and MAK Strike. Both the HAS and Sentinel are very promising and hopefully available soon but not right now.

The Windy Gaming looks nice but perhaps somewhat bulky and the internal PSU has a fan which I don't like. Also no audio output separate from the RGB port.

The Retroelectronik is said in the comments here to not properly attenuate the RGB sync line:

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _supergun/

Also I think it requires an ATX PSU and I believe most or all of those have fans.

The MAK Strike looks to be the best choice for me overall. The main issue with it seems to be a voltage spike which has been known to kill attached decoder boards but I've read several reports of it working fine with the OSSC. It optionally comes with a power supply and I hope that doesn't incorporate a fan.

FYI you can easily buy an atx psu with no fan, or an adaptive fan. I have a small sfx form factor psu with an adaptive fan. My Cps1, cps 1.5, cps2, and neo geo mv1 do not draw enough power for the fan to turn on. It’s been perfectly silent gaming for me.

Also replacing an atx psu fan with a silent noctua (or whatever) is trivial.

- sucks about the mak strike voltage spike.

[shmupsrocks]

Yeah it's too bad about the voltage spike. Can I prevent it from affecting the OSSC by turning on the supergun before I turn on the OSSC? From what I've read the spike is only right at the moment of switching on the power.

[RGB]

Yeah it's too bad about the voltage spike. Can I prevent it from affecting the OSSC by turning on the supergun before I turn on the OSSC? From what I've read the spike is only right at the moment of switching on the power.

You should be good as long as you don't use that power switch on the supergun. Leave it in "ON" position and power on the supergun by plugging the PSU's plug to power outlet (or use a power bar). Mechanical switches produce a very high and narrow current peak and there's no circuitry at all on the supergun to suppress it (not so trivial to design such solution to work properly with all kinds of PCB games and PSUs).

Also, check if there's a resistor on the CSync line.

[Classicgamer]

Is anyone here using a supergun with one of those multi-game jamma PCB boards?
snip

The multigame boards are literally crappy pc's running an outdated build of mame with a custom interface. The advantage to using a pc is that you can use a newer version of mame with a more powerful computer. also you naturally get more games. If you're going to buy a multigame + supergun, you may as well just buy a cheap pc + amd gpu and use soft 15khz (or something similar).

Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.

That's pretty much any of currently available simple supergun boards (I.e. Not one of the consolized hdmi versions).

I am going to buy this one soon:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supergun-Arcad ... SwR7BbhXW8

It looks as good as any so no point in paying $500 for someone else to stick one in a box. I want to use one to try one of those Raspberry Pi with the Jamma adapter to build a mini bartop (to use an 8" rgb crt monitor I have lying around).

So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?

Basically at this point the consensus at multiple forums is :

1. The HAS supergun from member rgb on this site. It features the best build quality, and has all the necessary features
The problem is they're out of stock

2-99 Every supergun that isn't a HAS basically.

Because the HAS is oos, I went with the retroeltronik progamer. Apparently this unit might feed rgb without a buffer. You can see ChuChu Flamingo's posts on the last page about that. For what its worth I haven't had an issue connecting it to my pvm. A friend of mine who does board repairs uses the retroelektronik to test video output on all his repairs. That's just 2 anecdotes, but it's something.

Stay away from retroelectronik. They drive the rgb video without a buffer afaik. Wait for the HAS.

How would we determine with certainty that the retroelektronik's don't have a video buffer?

Thanks. That what I thought on those multigame Jamma boards. If they don't output exactly the right res and refresh for every game, then they are pointless in every way I can think of.

One thing I never fully understood is why it's so hard for emulators to output the same res and refresh rate as the board they emulate. An emulator essentially uses software to emulate the original hardware but, apparently not the graphics chip.

Still, you would have thought that, if the multigame board was capable of cga output, then it would have been possible to set each game to output correctly, if the manufacturers weren't so lazy.

I guess I'll stick with the PC.

[Classicgamer]

So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?

It is worth understanding that a supergun is not a console like a SNES or Neo Geo. It's more like an adapter. With Jamma arcade boards, each one is like it's own console with a built-in game (except Neo GEO motherboards etc).

The Jamma edge was / is just a universally compatible interface to connect arcade boards to the monitor, controls and coin mechanism etc. A Super gun simply provides a more convenient way to output to a TV, joypad port and a credit button without having to wire them yourself (like you would in a cab). There is no graphics or sound boards in an arcade game with no game in it.

You are not going to get better graphics or sound by buying a more expensive supergun. That stuff is all generated from the Jamma PCB game board. What differs is build qualty and how much user know-how is required.

On a forum like this, you get people with varying degrees of competence to wire one of these things up. It doesn't surprise me at all that some people have fried their hardware. As with any electrical product, people, with a limited understanding of electronics should probably spend the extra on a more complete, user friendlly and ready to run supergun.

That's my $0.02.

[nmalinoski]

One thing I never fully understood is why it's so hard for emulators to output the same res and refresh rate as the board they emulate. An emulator essentially uses software to emulate the original hardware but, apparently not the graphics chip.

Generally, emulators emulate, not simulate. With a system like this, the point of the emulator is to act enough like the original hardware so that the game will run on the host hardware, which is probably off-the-shelf PC hardware, which is ostensibly different and otherwise incompatible with the game; it does not try to be the original hardware; and it doesn't try to make the host model the original hardware, which isn't always feasible.

Probably the easiest-to-understand example of what I'm talking about is StepMania. It doesn't try to interpret the code of original DDR games like an emulator would; instead, it's its own thing that models and plays just like the original games. To the untrained eye, it's indistinguishable from normal DDR, especially when fitted with a theme modeled after a specific arcade version.

An example somewhat more relevant to these forums would be an EverDrive, which is not an original game cartridge, but instead functionally models one, and the console can't tell the difference. Same with the GDEMU, which simulates a GD-ROM, even though it has "Emu[lator]" in the name, and is considered an Optical Drive "Emulator".

To get the type of AV output you want, I think you'd probably need a host platform with an FPGA that can simulate the original hardware, particularly the GPU. I imagine something like that would be the closest you'd get to the original RGB output, short of using the original hardware.

[speedlolita]

So I finally assembled a video cable for my HAS Supergun. Hooked up my CPS3 board and... It's got a very dark image. Can barely see the image.

I'm assuming that I need to add 220uF/330uF caps on the RGB lines or something? Any help appreciated.

Edit: Was a blanking issue (I think). Now solved.

[RetroBVM]

Any advice for a quality power supply for the HAS?

[speedlolita]

Any advice for a quality power supply for the HAS?

I'm using a Suzo Happ 80-0064-00 and it's all fine and dandy.

[shmupsrocks]

Anybody using a power supply without exposed wiring that doesn't smell like hot electronics (lead) while it's on?

[low_budget]

I made a new Supergun PCB I call the Parsec Supergun.

I've been working this project for the last 6 months. It's a new design Supergun PCB based on my personal preferences. I decided to make one after reading this thread for a while. For the last couple years I was making and selling a RGB to composite / s-video board based on the BH7236AF. I made some modifications to this circuit so it would work with JAMMA RGB signals, and it is working quite well.

I wanted to use a 24 pin ATX power connector for maximum power supply compatibility. An arcade power supply can also be used by modifying an ATX power extension cable. Uses a Texas Instruments PTN78000AAH regulator for -5v. This regulator costs $14 by itself, but is well worth it.

There is a 10 pin header receptacle for possible future video hat mounting. I may make a hat board with VGA style connector in the future.

I have 11 JAMMA arcade game PCBs in my collection I did the testing on.
Street Fighter (the original) was the only JAMMA board in my collection that didn't display a picture with composite or s-video. RGB video worked great with all games connected to my XRGB mini Framemeister. I do not own any other RGB video converters to test with.


The PARSEC v1.0 has the following features:

JAMMA, JAMMA + compatible
24 pin ATX power input connector (also works with 20 pin ATX)
Pushbutton on/off switch
(optional) onboard -5v regulator provides up to 1.5A
Power on/off switch for -5v regulator
LEDs indicating presence of +5v, -5v, +12v, and standby power
Built-in NTSC video converter
Genesis 2 A/V connector for RGB video
Composite video and s-video jacks
Audio output to 1/8" stereo line out jack or Genesis 2 A/V connector
Stereo / mono switch
Audio attenuation circuit with isolation transformers
Neo Geo controller ports for players 1 and 2 with standard supergun pinout
Credit, test, and service buttons
Kick harness connector
Buttons 4 and 5 on JAMMA connector can be disabled with DIP switches
Basic button remapping option using jumpers: "select" on Neo Geo controller connects to button 5 or can insert coin

Onboard RGB adjustment pots and/or a voltmeter can be added externally with minor modifications. I simply did not have any room left to mount these components on the main PCB.

I'm definitely making 10 Parsec Superguns. It is possible I may make more based on feedback.


Pricing will be $129 USD + shipping for the basic version and $139 USD to add the onboard -5v regulator.



If anyone is interested, please send me a PM. Thanks!

[Classicgamer]

I have been testing one of these $60 superguns this week:



These things have considerably poorer build quality and fewer features than the one I owned in the 90's but they are as cheap as they get.

The thing that everyone thinking about buying one should be aware of is that they don't include the resistor array needed to display arcade RGB on a consumer rgb tv (or monitor). This is a serious flaw as their key purpose is to display arcade PCBs on a crt tv with rgb scart...

If I try and use it on my broadcast monitor, the image is overly bright and can not be adjusted down to acceptable levels. Take note BVM / PVM owners. I believe this is why some people have had issues with consumer devices like upscalers not designed to handle a 5v rgb signal.

When I connect it to my arcade monitor and flick the 75ohm switch, the image comes out as it should in terms of brightness. But it has trouble with V hold, strange as I have no v hold issues with other sources and the Ikegami managed v hold just fine...

there is also other screen issues with geometry and shape on my arcade monitor that are not there on other sources. This tells me that the signal strength is too much even for a monitor design to handle arcade boards directly. The issues are similar to what I see when contrast is set too high and the coils overheat.

It won't display any image through my Extron interface which tells me that the sync signal is not clean. I suggest buying the more expensive scart to BNC adapters with built in sync strike and running the signal through a resistor array before plugging into any consumer display or scaler.


The layout of the board is annoying at best but it is functional. Overall, I am glad I only borrowed it. It might be ok for someone with the skills and mind to fix it up as a diy project.

[low_budget]

I realize I sorta came out of nowhere and announced a new supergun. With a product like this people are naturally skeptical and I don't blame them since some superguns do not handle the RGB video and/or audio correctly and can damage expensive equipment.

What can I say? I've been designing circuit boards and building projects since 2011 and I'm confident the Parsec is well designed.

I used to announce projects I'm working on early in development, but lately I just wait until something is built and thoroughly tested (by myself at least) before announcing anything.

Since I have tested my 11 JAMMA arcade game PCBs in my collection as well as the RGB video output through an XRGB mini and haven't found any issues with, well anything, I sort of need feedback if I am to make any improvements if necessary. I have tested the following JAMMA PCBs:
Killer Instinct 2
Mortal Kombat 2
Renegade
Double Dragon
Silkworm
Street Fighter
Altered Beast
Primal Rage
Bad Dudes
Trojan
P.O.W.
Neo Geo MVS 2 slot

I was wondering if somebody would be willing to do an honest review of the Parsec? I don't have many of the v1.0 boards left but I can reserve one as a "review system". I would like feedback on compatibility with a wider range of PCBs, OSSC display quality, and suggestions for overall improvements.


Also, I realize the Genesis 2 A/V connector isn't optimal for some RGB monitors or video converter connections so I am working on a hat design with a VGA connector and switch selectable sync mode.

[Classicgamer]

I realize I sorta came out of nowhere and announced a new supergun. With a product like this people are naturally skeptical and I don't blame them since some superguns do not handle the RGB video and/or audio correctly and can damage expensive equipment.

What can I say? I've been designing circuit boards and building projects since 2011 and I'm confident the Parsec is well designed.

I used to announce projects I'm working on early in development, but lately I just wait until something is built and thoroughly tested (by myself at least) before announcing anything.

Since I have tested my 11 JAMMA arcade game PCBs in my collection as well as the RGB video output through an XRGB mini and haven't found any issues with, well anything, I sort of need feedback if I am to make any improvements if necessary.

I was wondering if somebody would be willing to do an honest review of the Parsec? I don't have many of the v1.0 boards left but I can reserve one as a "review system". I would like feedback on compatibility with a wider range of PCBs, OSSC display quality, and suggestions for overall improvements.


Also, I realize the Genesis 2 A/V connector isn't optimal for some RGB monitors or video converter connections so I am working on a hat design with a VGA connector and switch selectable sync mode.

I would be happy to test out one of your superguns. I can confirm if it has the same issues as the $60 eBay superguns or not and I am set up to test it on both arcade monitors and consumer rgb displays. I have a bunch of PCBs and Neo Geo MVS stuff here at the moment.

[shmupsrocks]

Lucky enough to get the latest HAS supergun? I'll pay $300 if you're willing to sell. I believe that is more than twice its price.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=63709

[rcoltrane]

Who has the Vogatek MK II composite supergun here? I've bought a Pit-Fighter 3 player JAMMA+ board and I want to connect it to my HDTV though composite or s-video cables since my TV still have composite and S-Video inputs. And since I'm going to use standard microswitch arcade joysticks, I guess that this model is the only one which would fit my needs. Is this correct? Or do we have other supergun options which supports both composite/s-video/component or hdmi video output and standard microswitch arcade joysticks, such as wico or IL at the same time?

[Classicgamer]

Who has the Vogatek MK II composite supergun here? I've bought a Pit-Fighter 3 player JAMMA+ board and I want to connect it to my HDTV though composite or s-video cables since my TV still have composite and S-Video inputs. And since I'm going to use standard microswitch arcade joysticks, I guess that this model is the only one which would fit my needs. Is this correct? Or do we have other supergun options which supports both composite/s-video/component or hdmi video output and standard microswitch arcade joysticks, such as wico or IL at the same time?

You can do any of those things on any Supergun with the right accessories.

Most of the Superguns I have seen have Neo Geo controller ports as a minimum. From that, you can. Buy a Neo Geo extension cable ($8) and connect the other end to a 2 row db15 breakout board ($7 on eBay). The breakout board allows you to connect wires to numbered screw terminals and hook up joysticks and arcade micro switch buttons. It's incredibly easy to build a Supergun control panel like this. I just made one for myself.

On the video hookups, if you buy a Supergun that only outputs RGB, you can buy JROK which converts RGB to NTSC (SVideo or composite) or component video. Or you can just buy one which has the port you want built in.

eBay is littered with the sort of low cost upscalers you would find in many Superguns with HDMI out. You might get better results buying a regular rgb Supergun and choosing your own scaler like the Xrgb mini or OSSC etc.